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G11ATA
Silverstone


Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 113
Location: Berkshire


PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:56 pm    Post subject: Dyno recommendations please Reply with quote

Good evening I’m looking to have my 993 turbo rolling road tested to see how she is performing. My problem is most people are not interested as they say they can’t keep it cool enough. I have spoke to Charlie at Surrey rolling road and he also is not willing to do a power run. Could some please point me in the direction of someone reputable in the Berkshire area? Thanks
 
  
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HSC911
Dijon


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 7043
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will do it for you ...for free too Dont know

Grin
 
  
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G11ATA
Silverstone


Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 113
Location: Berkshire


PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HSC911 wrote:
I will do it for you ...for free too Dont know

Grin
Grin I’m sure you will! Hand
 
  
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Billy Bumpsteer
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 12 Aug 2019
Posts: 255



PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolling roads are only really good for comparing before and after performance mods. A 5% variation will give you a figure you maybe well happy with or very unhappy with.
 
  
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G11ATA
Silverstone


Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 113
Location: Berkshire


PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy Bumpsteer wrote:
Rolling roads are only really good for comparing before and after performance mods. A 5% variation will give you a figure you maybe well happy with or very unhappy with.

I am about to carry out some mods and this is the reason why I would like to know how she is performing at the moment.
 
  
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Billy Bumpsteer
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 12 Aug 2019
Posts: 255



PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great, good luck, what mods out of interest?
 
  
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G11ATA
Silverstone


Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 113
Location: Berkshire


PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy Bumpsteer wrote:
Great, good luck, what mods out of interest?

K24 turbos, secan intercooler, injectors, equal length manifolds with straight pipes, Motech management
 
  
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Billy Bumpsteer
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 12 Aug 2019
Posts: 255



PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! Keep us updated, sounds great....................and expensive! Sad
 
  
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PindiXpress
Monza


Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 208



PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who is doing the work ? They may be able to suggest, but when I see a Secan intercooler is being fitted, I'd be tempted to put it on Neil Bainbridges engine dyno Smile That said, I think there is a place in Aylesbury that has the old G-Force dyno and I think they used to dyno GT2's in period etc. DS Automotive.
 
  
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jonttt
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 6631
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need a dyno setup for a rear engine car. 9m In warrington have that setup but I guess they are no good location wise to you.

The accepted expert to benchmark what you are doing is Wayne Schofield but again he is based North of Manchester. He now has his own air cooled syno setup (he does 9M's bespoke tuning and did most of the race teams in the UK) Every time I have been there to see him there are cars from all over the country for the exact reasons you want yours doing.

Where you are fitting known mods such as these Wayne will literally be able to tell you what difference he would expect before you fit them etc.....

To me its well worth you taking a weekend break near Rochdale and go see Wayne Wink

https://chipwizards.co.uk/
_________________
1997 Porsche 911 993 C4S My Journal
2011 Porsche 987.2 Boxster Black Edition My Journal
Ex 2014 Porsche Boxster GTS My Journal
2017 BMW 740 Msport
2017 RR Evoque Autobiography
 
  
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Norfolk & Idea
Albert Park


Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Posts: 1646
Location: South Yorkshire


PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dyno'd a couple of my bikes. quite an unnerving experience having your P&J thrashed to death in front of you Surprised
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2014 991 Turbo S in sapphire blue
2008 Ducati 1098R (Track)
2019 Vito119 CDI Sport- Household Star!
2018 Ducati Panigale V4S (Track)
 
  
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Phil 997
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 15727
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am in agreement with jonitt, Wayne at Chipwizards he also helps with tuning for the new Hartech 3.9 conventions . Its worth the drive to Bolton area. Very straight guy no BS if some mod doesn't work right he will tell you. he removed my fabspeed carbon induction kit because the stock airbox with BMC filters made the car run better and improved the power curve. he was happy to play around with both options to get the best out of the car. Thumb Thumb
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911 Owners,Some Invest In The Future,
Others Enjoy The Moment Today.
 
  
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ShadesOfRed
Nürburgring


Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 496
Location: UK


PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Years ago when I was playing about with uprated turbos and a mapped ECU on my 993tt I was using the 60-130 acceleration time as a benchmark. Early Sunday mornings were best. Wink

I used a Race Technology datalogger and was also logging boost and intake air temps. I also did some intercooler testing at Brungtingthorpe comparing stock, 9M prototype and Secan intercoolers. The Secan was clearly the best but it should have been given its alleged 5 figure price.

Motronic on a 993tt works very well and does a good job protecting the engine by pulling first boost and then timing if the IAT is too high or knock is detected. You're not asking for advice but why move away from Motronic?
 
  
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TV8
Silverstone


Joined: 08 Nov 2019
Posts: 106
Location: Bromley


PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure why one power run would make the car overheat?

I think that power runs are useful things to check that the fueling is ok. Charlie stopped a power run on my last TVR as it was far too lean. It certainly explained why the car didn't feel right on the road!

If you are close to Charlie, then this person might be a bit to far away but Joolz is highly respected in the TVR world and has a free-stranding rolling road. I was one of his 1st customers to remap the Lucas FI system and gave him the car to get it working properly with the capacity increase the previous owner had completed without touching the fuelling.

He might not be interested in other work but worth speaking to. He is also a thoroughly decent man.

http://www.kitsandclassics.co.uk/Rolling-Road-Checklist/
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ShadesOfRed
Nürburgring


Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 496
Location: UK


PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Without sufficient airflow the intercooler will quickly heat soak and the engine will reduce boost and timing for self protection.

In the summer it’s surprising how warm the intercooler gets when sitting in traffic and how quickly it cools off when you’re on the move.
 
  
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jonttt
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 6631
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TV8 wrote:
Not sure why one power run would make the car overheat?

I think that power runs are useful things to check that the fueling is ok. Charlie stopped a power run on my last TVR as it was far too lean. It certainly explained why the car didn't feel right on the road!

If you are close to Charlie, then this person might be a bit to far away but Joolz is highly respected in the TVR world and has a free-stranding rolling road. I was one of his 1st customers to remap the Lucas FI system and gave him the car to get it working properly with the capacity increase the previous owner had completed without touching the fuelling.

He might not be interested in other work but worth speaking to. He is also a thoroughly decent man.

http://www.kitsandclassics.co.uk/Rolling-Road-Checklist/


The engine is in the rear in a 911 and when that 911 is “air cooled” you should really use a bespoke dyno specifically setup to provide airflow to a rear engine car or it can easily overheat Wink
_________________
1997 Porsche 911 993 C4S My Journal
2011 Porsche 987.2 Boxster Black Edition My Journal
Ex 2014 Porsche Boxster GTS My Journal
2017 BMW 740 Msport
2017 RR Evoque Autobiography
 
  
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TV8
Silverstone


Joined: 08 Nov 2019
Posts: 106
Location: Bromley


PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonttt wrote:
TV8 wrote:
Not sure why one power run would make the car overheat?

/


The engine is in the rear in a 911 and when that 911 is “air cooled” you should really use a bespoke dyno specifically setup to provide airflow to a rear engine car or it can easily overheat Wink


I do understand the configuration.. A bit surprised that a single power run should be such a risk. Troubleshooting, tweaking, re-mapping and repeat runs, I would understand but one run, quick removal of the safety stuff and drive it out and I would expect it to be fine. Obviously, assuming the owner of the car and the rolling road are in agreement of a quick test and turnaround.
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TV8
Silverstone


Joined: 08 Nov 2019
Posts: 106
Location: Bromley


PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is at Charlie’s old location and I haven’t been to the new place but I think the 964 is air cooled?
https://images.app.goo.gl/NFFbMZ9GNNqUPQsf8
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2000 996 Coupe
 
  
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ShadesOfRed
Nürburgring


Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 496
Location: UK


PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There’s not much of an issue putting an NA air cooled car on the rolling road but a turbocharged air cooled 911 needs lots of air flowing through the horizontally mounted intercooler which floor standing fans can’t provide.

I recall watching a 500 bhp 993tt being tested on Manthey Racing’s Maha rolling road. They removed the engine lid and fitted a special duct suspended from the roof of the test room and supplied by a large diameter fan to insure the intercooler was able to do its thing.
 
  
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NXI20
Paul Ricard


Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 3401
Location: South Bucks

2004 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G11ATA wrote:

K24 turbos, secan intercooler, injectors, equal length manifolds with straight pipes, Motech management


Wayne mapped my 993 GT2 when it got a 3.8 engine upgrade with K16/26 hybrid turbos, custom intercooler & a Cargraphic cat-only exhaust. 2 problems were found: it needed a Bosch motorsport 044 fuel pump and a 5 bar FPR to safely make the power I wanted. It does this at a relatively low boost of 1 bar. The car did maybe 8 power runs in a row without suffering a significant rise in AIT. Wayne's cooling works! Unfortunately, the tyres didn't appreciate being asked to do the runs & were over-heating...

Wayne is also (AFAIK) the only person who has all the kit & knowledge to modify the early Motronic ECU to allow it to be mapped.
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2004 GT3 CS in Atlas Grey with too many mods to list!
1995 993 GT2 recreation in Polar Silver
2010 GT3 CS in Riviera Blue Smile
 
  
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