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adrianleek
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Joined: 13 Jan 2020
Posts: 1



PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:34 pm    Post subject: The 997 “bore” score question. Reply with quote

Hi all,

I am totally new to this and I am after some sound advice if possible. I am looking at possibly buying a 997 and I know the bore scoring chat has “bored” everyone to death. However, what I want to know is, will all non GT cars and pre gen 2 suffer from bore scoring at some point? Or do some and not others and if not, why not and which ones?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Last edited by adrianleek on Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Daniel
Donnington
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Joined: 02 Feb 2005
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2000 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk1

PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get a nice cup of Tea and somewhere quiet for an hour or so... enjoy.

https://www.hartech.org/engine-rebuilds

Welcome to 911uk by the way.
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bazhart
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Joined: 20 May 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also if you contact our Sharon on admin@hartech.org and request a copy of our technical report on the 4 main problems afflicting this model range you will find out all you ever need to know about the subject.

Just a word of warning - it is lengthy and highly technical (because it is a complex subject that cannot be fully explained in brief and often misleading comments that many others present). However most interested people should be able to understand it even if they are not from an engineering background.

It does contain all the answers however.

Baz
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Jackzi
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Joined: 30 Aug 2015
Posts: 139
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the forum Adrian.

I'm sure you'll get all the technical info you'll ever need from Hartech.

I had similar concerns when I bought a 997.1, and all I can do is try to put your mind at ease (not from a technical point of view, of course - that's Hartech's business).

I was chatting to a couple of respected specialists and both told me that less than 10% of their customers with 996s and 997s were on the forums. So even if 10% of those had bore score (and apply that to all the Porsche specialists in the UK), then work out how many that is overall - not many.

Whether this is true or not is immaterial. It kind of put my mind at ease.

Forums are massive amplification devices for car problems.

Use the logic you would for any other car: buy the best you can possibly afford.

Not all 997s have bore score. So do. Some don't. Some will get it. Some won't.

It's relatively easy to diagnose and less catastrophic than IMS failure.

It's a gradual problem where you can drive quite a few miles with it. In fact, of all the cars I looked at that had bore score (all 996s I might add), none of the owners/sellers seemed to know that they had it. I guess all I'm trying to tell you is that it's not a problem that causes catastrophic and sudden engine failure. It can be fixed.
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villaman
Silverstone


Joined: 05 Mar 2019
Posts: 130
Location: North Staffordshire 997 C2


PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some perspective and hopefully helps ease the Porsche paranoia syndrome..

It can be very contagious and only curable with a course of treatment called "991"

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jonttt
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Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 6652
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why a 991 Dont know
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The return of Marty Wild
Kyalami


Joined: 04 Nov 2016
Posts: 1969



PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had same dilemma getting into a Cayman 987.1 S, I read Baz’s 47 page document. I bought a well treated car. And I observed as many of the physical and practical safeguards as possible.

- Yearly oil change with Millers Nano.
- Low Temp Thermostat.
- Lower sump for extra oil.
- Warmed up and down thoroughly, 7 miles at under 3k.
- If you get stopped unexpectedly after giving it the beans, as you pull away again, go back into warm up procedure for a couple of miles (under 3k revs and no full throttle). This is due to the engine temps going critical after there’s no air flow over the car with the inherent cooling issues on the engines in question.

Smaller engine sizes are supposedly less likely to suffer from the issue of scoring and pistons going oval, IIRC due to there literally being more metal work/block surrounding the bores.

Tiptronics more likely to suffer as they pull away in second and it’s torque loads that push the less lubricated edge of the piston against the bore on the more problematic bores.

So my understanding and in only my opinion from all my homework, cars driven properly but with mechanical sympathy are less likely to suffer than cars that have pootled around town with lots of pulling away cycles.

As an aside, if you get the PSE, worth running around with it switched off for a bit to keep up the ranges of the solenoid actuators and butterfly valves. They’re notorious for giving up the ghost. After finding that out the hard way, I used to keep PSE off during the 7 miles warm up and then ceremoniously turning on the SC and PSE for smiles per gallon.
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Last edited by The return of Marty Wild on Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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HSC911
Dijon


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 7125
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome
 
  
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The return of Marty Wild
Kyalami


Joined: 04 Nov 2016
Posts: 1969



PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thought processes contained within:

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=116411&start=0
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resigner
Suzuka


Joined: 19 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's going to worry you, find a car which has already had a rebuild by a good engine builder. Hartech are the name everyone knows, but there are others just as good. Of course, there are complete cowboys as well....

997's are incredible cars. Don't believe anyone who says they all go bang, they don't know what they are talking about.

Get a good one, get it checked out by someone who knows what they are looking at (plenty of cases of people being paid to do borescope checks and saying it's knackered, when it isnt!), then look after it as above. Warm it up properly is the main one, but also drive it properly and regularly!
 
  
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Kyalami


Joined: 04 Nov 2016
Posts: 1969



PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and read up on sooty tailpipes. A super polished out tailpipe might point to people trying to cover the fact that the left (is it?!) is sootier than the right one. Which is widely accepted as a sign of worries contained within.
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villaman
Silverstone


Joined: 05 Mar 2019
Posts: 130
Location: North Staffordshire 997 C2


PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonttt wrote:
Why a 991 Dont know


Because he wont have to worry about IMS and BS ?
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C4Silver
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 14 Aug 2019
Posts: 346
Location: Yorkshire


PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought a 997.1 last year, i followed some of what i'd learnt on here but mainly followed my own gut instinct. Some good advice there from Marty and also resigner making the comment that they are all not bad, there are some absolute belters out there, i looked for a long time and discounted A LOT before plumping for the one i eventually ended up with,

I'd had about 6 PPI's on previous ones ALL had the dreaded bore scoring !
I had thought i might buy a bore scope and start conducting these myself..... So i did on the last one i saw and bought it ! It is without doubt the best 997 i saw in over 2 years, the inside looks and smells a s new, externally it is A1 and mechanically it is tip Top...... Except for the Condensors which both need changing !
Surprised
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
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Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

villaman wrote:
jonttt wrote:
Why a 991 Dont know


Because he wont have to worry about IMS and BS ?


No worries with a 997.2 or a properly relined 997.1 either.
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resigner
Suzuka


Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 1247



PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sooty tailpipes on both sides, had those recently, because my AOS had gone. Look for the oil useage going really downhill! Eventually it started smoking rather badly on both sides on start up and doing 300 miles a litre! Indy fixed it, but was left with very sooty tailpipes for a few thousand miles after while it got rid of the misplaced oil......

In April I will of had mine (2007 C2s Cabrio) for 5 years. Done over 40,000 miles. Aos been done, coil packs been done, new discs and pads, new clutch, obviously various new tyres. Oil change every year, using mobil 1 5W40 *Indy says its absolutely superb, millers is very good, either is what you want), and other than that, car has been wonderful. Had it borescoped when the AOS went and it came back as "one of the cleanest" my indy had seen.

Basically, find a good Indy, listen to what they say, don't believe people on the internet. The facebook 997 owners group is particularly amusing, some people sputing just plain wrong info, like get a Gen 2 checked for IMS..... Just hilarious.......

Get a good one, look after it, and enjoy. For the money, nothing comes close. In fact, we are 2 weeks into owning a brand new M4 competition pack convertible, and its an incredible thing, but my 997 is more entertaining
 
  
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
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Location: South Oxfordshire

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Double post. What happened to the post delete button??
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The return of Marty Wild
Kyalami


Joined: 04 Nov 2016
Posts: 1969



PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and there’s a difference between visible scuffs/marring on the bores and actual scoring, the former to be expected but not necessarily a precursor to the dreaded BS.
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Robertb
Dijon


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Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And also a bore scope won’t see a degradation of the piston coating, which is where it starts IIRC
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Robert SausageTrousers
Monza


Joined: 02 Apr 2018
Posts: 245



PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought mine in August 2018, it had just been rebuilt at JAZ Porsche and had 51k on the clock, i've used it daily ever since and it's now on 71k, it's never used a drop of oil or given me any problems whatsoever, I think it's probably worth roughly what I paid for it back then, so all in all an absolutely fantastic car.

It's easy to be put off by reading horror stories that get repeated and blown up x10, and it's also easy to believe that only certain cars that have been touched by certain specialists will be the reliable ones, but that's not necessarily true, do your due diligence and get stuck in, brilliant cars.
 
  
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spongebob squarepants
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 6474
Location: Manchester and Iraq


PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

villaman wrote:
jonttt wrote:
Why a 991 Dont know


Because he wont have to worry about IMS and BS ?


Plus of course everyone’s doing it Grin I think Jonttt May mean don’t discount the 997.2, although of course we all know the 991 is the sweet spot of the 911 range.
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