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Will Statt
Montreal


Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 504
Location: Derbyshire


PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:46 am    Post subject: Sell 'em all quick.... Reply with quote

[img][/img]
 
  
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cableguy
Watkins Glen


Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 2105
Location: North Yorkshire


PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You better get out quick Will... I'll bid a solid 20 large for your car and can collect this weekend to save you any further depreciation. Thumb

C.
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Will Statt
Montreal


Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 504
Location: Derbyshire


PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

give me your postcode.... I'll deliver it now! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
 
  
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 7587
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You just wait til Greta's Law is passed, and you get your letter from DVLA with an appointment to leave your car with the local recycling centre for processing.
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Counter Of Beans
Nürburgring


Joined: 10 May 2018
Posts: 449
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's likely that, over the next ten years, folk will buy hybrids and electric cars to replace their everyday vehicles. Meanwhile manufacturers such as Porsche will stop making ICE cars. And more cities will impose entry penalties for any diesel, and old petrol engined cars.

So how does that leave a car like a Porsche 993? Honest John suggests they'll be worthless. Well, it might be that they become highly prized; an old school analogue machine in a modern electric world. A bit like how some people (I'm one!) have a turntable to play vinyl LP's, perhaps even a valve amplifier! OK I also have digital devices (daily drivers, if you like), but I treasure my old vinyl.

So it could be that cars such as air cooled Porsches become more desirable in future, not less.
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 7587
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main issue will be infrastructure.

Looking out of my office window at the local car park I can see very few cars over 10 yrs old.

At some point, probably closer than we think, as EVs become more commonplace one can envisage a scenario where it simply wont be economic for retailers to sell petrol.

You won't be able to take an EV into a city due to emissions, and it would not surprise me at all to see some swingeing increases in VED for ICE cars, not to mention road charging (the cynic in me wonders whether all these 'smart motorways' are the trojan horse, with camera systems ideal for road charging)

I can imagine proper old classics like Aston DB5/6 and V12 Ferraris continuing to find favour with owners who can afford to keep them and enjoy them.
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coullstar
Albert Park


Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 1689
Location: Aberdeen/Torphins


PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robertb wrote:
The main issue will be infrastructure.

Looking out of my office window at the local car park I can see very few cars over 10 yrs old.

At some point, probably closer than we think, as EVs become more commonplace one can envisage a scenario where it simply wont be economic for retailers to sell petrol.

You won't be able to take an EV into a city due to emissions, and it would not surprise me at all to see some swingeing increases in VED for ICE cars, not to mention road charging (the cynic in me wonders whether all these 'smart motorways' are the trojan horse, with camera systems ideal for road charging)

I can imagine proper old classics like Aston DB5/6 and V12 Ferraris continuing to find favour with owners who can afford to keep them and enjoy them.


This is how I see it going. Enjoy them while you can as the right to have one wont be taken away but they will tax and hinder you to the point its not achievable or even worthwhile running one. I really really hope Im wrong mind you.

The analogy for other items such as record players doesn't really count as the ICE is seen as the utter evil that has destroyed the planet, a record player and similar not so much.
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Phil 997
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 15747
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had some vinyl in the 70s that was considered utter evil by many. Floor
but on a serious note yes it may happen but when . Timescales for all electric cars being produced is 2040 and thats only if you can get 250miles range with ac, heating, audio and nav all on at the same time ,and from a family size car thats affordable to most people and can be easily recharges in 30 mins . We certainly are not there yet until we are the public wont move en-mass to EVs
Then the government willl have to allow for a reasonable period for the last of the hybrid and petrol cars to serve their purpose say 10 years . then another 10 years before they consider it a luxury to own a classic petrol car so thats at least 40 years , If I am still around I certainly wont be driving by then and TBH would I worry that my car I purchased in the 20teens was not worth anything 40 odd years later . I really dont think so , It will have served its purpose and given me years of fun which was why it was brought . The only people I see needing to be concerned are those that thought a car would be an appreciating asset and in those cases they will have to like any investment consider the risk that their investment may go down as well as up.
I am amazed that people look so far ahead we are talking of a period more than a standard mortgage term. or in perspective a period longer than the time between WW1 ending and WW2 starting I bet in 1918 no one ever considered what would happen in 1939 .The world evolves so quickly it really isn't worth trying to predict what may happen in the future or even worry about it. Grin Thumb just my thoughts on the subject Thumb
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saxon46
Monza


Joined: 16 Mar 2015
Posts: 194
Location: south wales boy bach


PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the use of a nissan leaf ev at work......6hrs to fully charge, 87 mile range when fully charged (and thats in eco mode) if you use either the heater or aircon the drops 15 miles straight away.
I think there is still a way to go with this electric stuff and the infrastructure isn’t there at the mo
So i feel quite safe blasting around in my old porker.
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jonttt
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 6653
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

993 will only increase in value exponentially........your name would have to being with a Z to lose money on one Grin
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spongebob squarepants
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 6485
Location: Manchester and Iraq


PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having researched electric cars, there basically crap and very expensive. If there cheap it because they are really crap! The infrastructure is a million miles away, as is the range of most in the real world.

I think we’re some way away from worthless, at least 30 years, at which time I won’t give a fook Grin
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“Herman yellow, the last of the naturally aspirated”

 
  
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Sutton
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 308
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the effect of cold weather on battery performance (delivery capacity and charging)? My understanding is that both take a hit when it gets below 5oC.

For me, an electric car makes sense for short (<6 mile) trips that I often make, to the extent that I would consider one. However I quite often need to make >200 mile long trips and range anxiety would drive me round the twist so an electric car would have to join an ICE car in my garage.
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 7587
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EVs now are a bit like cellphones back in the 80s. They were heavy, niche, rubbish signal and very expensive. By the 90s, they were widespread, by the 2000s everyone has one.

The charging infrastructure is relatively easily dealt with by having standardised sockets, and more charging points. The range anxiety thing is an illusion for the most part (for most people, most of the time, 200 miles is more than adequate)

Tesla is now worth more than VW.

I think we will be surprised/horrified by how quickly the EV gains traction as the major manufacturers get their acts together.

For my own part, I've never heard companies talking so much about what they need to do to meet new environmental pressures, there is a momentum behind the climate change movement like never before.
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Current: 2003 C4S Coupe, seal/black

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James M-S
Suzuka


Joined: 11 Apr 2017
Posts: 1146
Location: Derbyshire

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutton wrote:
What's the effect of cold weather on battery performance (delivery capacity and charging)? My understanding is that both take a hit when it gets below 5oC..


That’s correct, but most EV’s & plug-in hybrids have the ability to pre-heat the battery whilst plugged in. You set a timer telling it you need the battery preconditioned ready to leave at 6am on Monday, 6:30 on Tuesday etc. This can also be done via an app on your phone from bed etc.

I think some cars even (ironically) have small diesel preheaters so they can warm the battery whilst not plugged in.

The wife is always smug when I’m scraping ice off the windscreen of my winter hack for 5mins, and she gets straight into her car with pre-heated windscreens, seats, steering wheel, cabin temp etc
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HSC911
Dijon


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 7134
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James M-S wrote:
The wife is always smug when I’m scraping ice off the windscreen of my winter hack for 5mins, and she gets straight into her car with pre-heated windscreens, seats, steering wheel, cabin temp etc


You'll be the smug one when you drive past her on the [Insert long road] whilst she waits for recovery due to a flat battery...

...at least she will be warm Grin

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nickjonesn4
Hockenheim


Joined: 10 Aug 2017
Posts: 650
Location: Edinburgh


PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread should surely be titled "Drive 'em quick"

Even less point having them sitting around doing F all if you wont be able to use them in the future anyway.

I live in the sticks and its safe to say the big city folk will suffer first.

My vote would be no petrol cars by 2050.
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991.2GTS
Montreal


Joined: 02 Apr 2019
Posts: 509
Location: Yorkshire


PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forget the merits of the EV and the infrastructure. It’s going to come down to politics and economics.

One thing no one seems to mention either, is the economics of what the car manufacturers have built their business on in recent years. Almost everyone buys a car on finance. The car industry only continues to work if people are buying new cars every three years, that they never actually own. How long can this continue? We’re currently seeing signs that this isn’t sustainable.

And if we’re really serious about sustainability, we should be building fewer cars. Not more. And making the ones we do make, last longer. Most of the carbon a car contributes to the environment is through the materials it’s built from and the manufacturing process. Add to that the disposal, and it’s much better for the environment to run your old ICE car than buying a new EV every three years.

That’s why whenever anyone questions your eco friendliness about driving a 911, point out that Porsche are probably the most sustainable car company on the planet. For a start, they don’t make that many cars in relation to the biggest manufacturers. They are always leading the way when it comes to reaching carbon neutrality in their manufacturing. And over 70% of all cars they’ve ever built are still on the roads. That’s incredibly sustainable. I doubt any other consumer driven business could say the same about their products.
 
  
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johne
Monza


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 186



PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i just bought the electric taxi .its sort of changed my mind. its so much better than the ***** carts I have driven for 33 years .but theres nothing like an early morning hoon in the 993 with like minded fellows .I did think it was going to go up in value but im not to sure now .oh well never mind
 
  
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Tobesetc
Albert Park


Joined: 02 Jun 2014
Posts: 1607
Location: West London, UK


PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I take a broadly positive view.

Electric cars are coming. They're already much faster than petrol, they'll be better all round within my lifetime (hoping I live a decent span). You can deny this all you want (though I note now, most don't deny the inevitable).

However, it won't happen overnight and as a few of you have pointed out, it's not going to be our problem! My (our) car(s) will be "allowed" a long time after I (we) can no longer drive it (them)!

Life is short. Enjoy it while you can.
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lk993
Monza


Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 165
Location: Surrey 991.2 GTS


PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The filling people's minds with "eco thinking" seems to be happening more and more (follow the money), with careful mixing in tangible and visible environmental issues like plastic waste with CO2 emissions, so that the issue of CO2 and whether or not it's actually making the climate change dare not be questioned largely because it's conflated with all other obvious environmental issues.
Anyway, on the car front, I think the safest to own in terms of being as far away from the dealth by a thousand cuts and incremental tightening of the screws (town centre charging etc) would be a 'Euro 6', so in 911 terms that would be 991 onwards. The further back you go in Euro emmisions terms the more I would be concerned about ever more restricted use.
 
  
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