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Nej123
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Joined: 20 Jan 2020
Posts: 4



PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:00 pm    Post subject: 996 RMS SEAL Reply with quote

Hi, I have just put a deposit on my first Porsche Very Happy but am suffering from IMS FAILURE SYNDROME!! Its a 2003 996 Targa - 53000 miles with a full (mainly Porsche) service history. I noticed that there was an oil leak and part of the deal is that the seller gets the oil leak fixed at the sellers cost. It is currently in TWG Porsche in Peterborough they have said it is the RMS Seal. My dilemma - should I get the IMS done while the gear box is out? Its Tiptronic so I would hope the box will not come out very often. They have quoted and extra £1100.00 to fit the IMS which seems a lot as the box is already out and I would have to pay for the IMS work. Any advice / comments would be really helpful.

Is it possible to fully inspect the IMS in situ?
 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7800
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=137633

6th post down is relevant .

It sounds a little overpriced as the engine is already dropped but depending on the type used a replacement part is £500 on its own .

Should you change it Question .. thats down to you .. if your going to worry about it every time you drive the car then yes .

As per above though it can be checked in situ and if ok then you don't have to replace it .

There is no way to fully inspect it as such as that would mean cutting it apart .

As it's a Targa then i would be more concerned about the roof .. engine running and it should move back and forth easily .. if very very slow or you have to help it close then its cable time .


http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=116450
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17289
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only 'correct' way to replace an IMS bearing is by stripping the engine. Yanking it out and pressing a new one in in situ can cause further problems down the line. There is no factual evidence that any of these 'improvements' are any more reliable than what you already have in.

If you want to do anything to ease your mind, get the garage to inspect the bearing for any play and whilst they're in there, remove the outer dust shield off the bearing so that in the future it is constantly lubricated by the engine's oil.

thumbsup
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DarthFaker
Trainee


Joined: 13 Jun 2019
Posts: 88
Location: 1999 Carrera 4 Aerokit


PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex wrote:
The only 'correct' way to replace an IMS bearing is by stripping the engine. Yanking it out and pressing a new one in in situ can cause further problems down the line. There is no factual evidence that any of these 'improvements' are any more reliable than what you already have in.

If you want to do anything to ease your mind, get the garage to inspect the bearing for any play and whilst they're in there, remove the outer dust shield off the bearing so that in the future it is constantly lubricated by the engine's oil.

thumbsup


There's no reason for an IMS bearing replacement to damage anything as long as they don't hit so hard it damages the oil pump on the other side of engine. Or damage the plastic chain tensioners.

The original bearing is under specced that's a fact, it cannot deal with the chain whip loads, nor does it have thick enough exterior outer race to avoid deformation on some tighter clearanced IMS tubes (hence some earlier failures sub 40k). Also the reason why the later M97 bigger bearings hardly ever fail.

Its been clearly identified as a service item, just change it with a competent garage there are some great options out there such as the replacement bearing sold by Eporsch in Bisley which is very similar to the EPS Eternal Solution just without the oiling mod to the oil pump key. This about £370 Inc VAT and not the huge cost of the LN Engineering bearings which are just absurd to be honest. There are even cheaper ways to do it but that's just a bit too ghetto. In reality it's just a ball bearing.

Some people on here are in denial about this issue and the faster you fix it the better you will sleep at night, knowing that your £16k engine won't blow up whilst you are out buying some milk.

My only caveat being if you have a 2.5L Boxster, it just doesn't make sense financially to do it, when you can get a wrecker engine for 2k if you're unlucky enough to blow it.

And the first person to suggest Porsche aren't stupid enough to make a bearing under specced, can I refer you to the following faults.

964 oil leaks
997 bore scoring
991 cylinder seizure
3.8L GT3 engine fires
GT3 engines blowing up on track (due to knocking).

Is the 911 amazing? Yeah sure as hell it is, but don't kid yourself it's beyond reproach, also don't kid yourself they're cheap to run either. They will always kick you in the balls when you least expect it. It's just being prepared and have the monies waiting.
 
  
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 7552
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds very expensive and unfair... the garage should pay the labour charge they’d have payed for the RMS change under your agreement then allow you to pay the difference for the upgrade bearing which would be parts and a bit of extra labour.
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Nej123
Newbie


Joined: 20 Jan 2020
Posts: 4



PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for your comments - very helpful. I think it makes sense to replace the IMS as the gearbox is already out. It will give me peace of mind and add value if / when I come to sell the car.

Talk about the cost of Porsche ownership - its cost me £1100.00 and I don't even own it yet!! Surprised
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17289
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't think it will add value to your car. It would put some members on here (self included) off buying the car if the bearing had been replaced in situ with an aftermarket alternative.

Ps. 3.6 996 was around 8% failure rate of low mileage cars due to manufacturing tolerances causing bearings to prematurely fail on some.
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Last edited by Alex on Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:05 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17289
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's some excellent posts on here from Ba Hart at Hartech on recommendations on what to due. I'd suggest you search for some of those and have a good read.
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 7552
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex wrote:
Don't think it will add value to your car. It would put some members on here (self included) off buying the car if the bearing had been replaced in situ with an aftermarket alternative.

Ps. If the bearing was under specified, they'd have all failed. 3.6 996 was around 8% of low mileage cars due to manufacturing tolerances causing bearings to prematurely fail on some.


The problem is that potential buyers who’ve read the buyers guides will always ask whether ‘IMS has been done’ so I might be inclined to invest some cash if I was selling as there are buyers out there, rightly or wrongly, who’d rule a car out if the IMS had not been ‘upgraded’.
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DarthFaker
Trainee


Joined: 13 Jun 2019
Posts: 88
Location: 1999 Carrera 4 Aerokit


PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex wrote:
Don't think it will add value to your car. It would put some members on here (self included) off buying the car if the bearing had been replaced in situ with an aftermarket alternative.

Ps. 3.6 996 was around 8% failure rate of low mileage cars due to manufacturing tolerances causing bearings to prematurely fail on some.


The single row actually has a higher load capacity than the dual row, my opinion regarding their failure is the lack of thrust handling capacity during heavy loads scenarios.

Either way the only thing certain with anything mechanical is it will eventually fail. If you're going to put your trust in a 15 to 22 year old bearing that is under specified, in a hot oil environment with poor lubrication and the possibility of rancid oil trapped behind it that can be replaced for 1/8 the cost of the engine you're mad.
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17289
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Out of interest, have you had a borescope done as the 3.6 engine (especially with tiptronic box) has a far higher risk of having scored bores than an issue with the ims bearing.
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DarthFaker
Trainee


Joined: 13 Jun 2019
Posts: 88
Location: 1999 Carrera 4 Aerokit


PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex wrote:
Out of interest, have you had a borescope done as the 3.6 engine (especially with tiptronic box) has a far higher risk of having scored bores than an issue with the ims bearing.


He's right you know.. I'd have that checked.
 
  
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Glenn99C2
Newbie


Joined: 27 May 2019
Posts: 11
Location: East Preston


PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whether it is expensive depends on the deal that you've done, and whether any other work is being done. When I bought my 996.1 C2 cab (72kmiles) I paid £1k to get the IMS and RMS done whilst the engine was out for a leaky oil separator replacement. There was no indication that either was an issue, and no history to say they had been done so from my standpoint it was peace of mind. If the RMS is being done as part of the sale £1100 seams a bit steep.
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Nej123
Newbie


Joined: 20 Jan 2020
Posts: 4



PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:20 am    Post subject: 996 Targs 2003 Reply with quote

Well - I bit the bullitt and had the IMS replaced while the gearbox was out - £800.00 so I think that was a good deal.

This is my first Porche so driving back last Friday after picking up the car was a real pleasure - very happy with the purchase - but>>>>>>>>>

Suddenly the radio goes off "No PTY"? leaving just a hiss. Later that evening sat in the car checking everything out (like you do) I reset the radio (factory settings) and retuned it - worked perfectly until I started the car - suddenly no reception and "No PTY" signal. Similar issue the next dat - seems a bit random?

I have ready several forums about this but there does not seem to be a clear answer to the problem - has anyone got a solution. Also date is stuck in the year 2000?
 
  
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 7552
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Date issue is non-resolvable I think... something to do with GPS signal or somesuch. Think of it as adding to the retro experience.

IMS bearing sounds a good call, best to bite the bullet as you say. Enjoy the car!
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Current: 2003 C4S Coupe, seal/black

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996driver
Trainee


Joined: 15 Sep 2013
Posts: 94
Location: Kent UK


PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a similar problem with intermittent radio in my 996. In the end I just replaced it with a new headunit that had USB and Aux inputs
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7800
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assume you mean PCM not a radio .. the PCM stuck date on 2000 is well known and not a sensible fix .. possible but cost wise its not worth it .

With PCM faults then it's either a bad connection .. very unusual or an internal fault with the head unit .. most people would replace with a more modern system .. if OCD then a second hand unit perhaps .

PCM = Porsche Communication Management i believe is the name .
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Thank you all so Very much .

She's not going until july 2020 though .



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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17289
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex wrote:
Out of interest, have you had a borescope done as the 3.6 engine (especially with tiptronic box) has a far higher risk of having scored bores than an issue with the ims bearing.


Have you had the bores checked?
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UncleP
Monza


Joined: 27 Feb 2019
Posts: 161



PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarthFaker wrote:
Alex wrote:
Out of interest, have you had a borescope done as the 3.6 engine (especially with tiptronic box) has a far higher risk of having scored bores than an issue with the ims bearing.


He's right you know.. I'd have that checked.


Yup.

I wouldn't worry about the IMS pooping itself on a 3.6 Tiptronic. The engine is far more likely to score itself to death before the IMS kills it.
 
  
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