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Fabs911
Newbie


Joined: 18 Jan 2020
Posts: 12



PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:13 pm    Post subject: Sparkling oil, time for IMS Replacement ? Reply with quote

Hi

Today, when changing the oil and filter on my 996 I noticed that the oil was a bit sparkling when touched the oil drainer. Although I put a magnet where the oil was draining but didn't catch anything, checked the oil filter and also nothing.
It is the first time I am changing the oil on my 996 is a reason to worry about or can I just keep drive but keep a closer look on it?
I did budget an IMS replacement when I bought the car, but would be great to wait till it needs a clutch.

Regards
 
  
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Luddite
Montreal


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 593
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For peace of mind you could perhaps send a sample of your engine oil off for analysis... plenty of companies advertising on the www

Worth a try.. Question
 
  
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Fabs911
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Joined: 18 Jan 2020
Posts: 12



PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't think about it actually.
Unfortunately, I don't have the oil anymore, obviously, the new one won't have any debris in it (hopefully,) perhaps I'd better off driving a few months and change the oil again and send it.
 
  
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Dammit
Indianapolis


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 2485



PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What’s the mileage of the car?
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Luddite
Montreal


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 593
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many miles had the oil done. How long was the oil in the engine, talking year, months or what.. Question
 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7848
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are no hard and fast rules when it comes to an IMS im afraid so ill just post what i have seen ..

There is often no prior warning of an IMS failure .. no noises no running issues from the owners i have spoken to that have had this happen .

To check the condition you remove the gearbox , flywheel .. lock the crank .. timing tools etc and remove the cover .. you are looking for side to side play .. in / out and spin it for noises .

A small amount of shiny material sitting on top of the oil drained out doesn't always indicate an IMS failing ... i've seen it a few times shall we say with no problems at all.

You look in the bottom of the plastic container .. if metal in the bottom then yes .. something is certainly amiss .

you cut open the oil filter and lay it out flat .. again any shiny bits of metal are a good indicator that the IMS bearing is breaking up .

The usual mileage for a failure was 40K .. it can happen later but that was the mileage i've seen most fail at .

It's not that common these days .. i've not seen one in about a year but i work at just one garage and there are many garages in this country .

If you are concerned about a possible failure then get it checked .. perhaps have a clutch done at the same time and the IMS bearing cover removed if its all ok .. peace of mind then .
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DarthFaker
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Joined: 13 Jun 2019
Posts: 93
Location: 1999 Carrera 4 Aerokit


PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take it from someone who has been in your exact situation, get it changed now.

Mine came out (dual row) and I recon it would have gone pretty quickly after if I hadn't done it. It's cheap insurance.

My car has zero symptoms of failure, no noises no rattles nothing. Just a few flakes of silvery metal in the oil filter which had come from the IMS bearing races and balls

Engine is now fixed and running a treat.
 
  
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Fabs911
Newbie


Joined: 18 Jan 2020
Posts: 12



PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dammit wrote:
What’s the mileage of the car?

The miles is about 85000 miles
 
  
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Fabs911
Newbie


Joined: 18 Jan 2020
Posts: 12



PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luddite wrote:
How many miles had the oil done. How long was the oil in the engine, talking year, months or what.. Question


the last service was done 1 year ago
 
  
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Luddite
Montreal


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 593
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given the OP reported the oil having non magnetic particulate matter, could be alloy though wonder if the IMS is stainless and thus non magnetic..?

Just thinking in type.. Question Old
 
  
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Fabs911
Newbie


Joined: 18 Jan 2020
Posts: 12



PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deMort wrote:
There are no hard and fast rules when it comes to an IMS im afraid so ill just post what i have seen ..

There is often no prior warning of an IMS failure .. no noises no running issues from the owners i have spoken to that have had this happen .

To check the condition you remove the gearbox , flywheel .. lock the crank .. timing tools etc and remove the cover .. you are looking for side to side play .. in / out and spin it for noises .

A small amount of shiny material sitting on top of the oil drained out doesn't always indicate an IMS failing ... i've seen it a few times shall we say with no problems at all.

You look in the bottom of the plastic container .. if metal in the bottom then yes .. something is certainly amiss .

you cut open the oil filter and lay it out flat .. again any shiny bits of metal are a good indicator that the IMS bearing is breaking up .

The usual mileage for a failure was 40K .. it can happen later but that was the mileage i've seen most fail at .

It's not that common these days .. i've not seen one in about a year but i work at just one garage and there are many garages in this country .

If you are concerned about a possible failure then get it checked .. perhaps have a clutch done at the same time and the IMS bearing cover removed if its all ok .. peace of mind then .


Hi, I did open and checked the oil filter and the oil filter cap and there was any shiny stuff, only just on the oil when it drained.
Also had a magnet on the drainer to catch any debris though, but it came clean as well

Anyway, I was already thinking about replacing it for peace of mind, I just don't know how urgent would be.
 
  
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 7587
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now the doubt is in your mind you’ll probably keep worrying til you know for sure...
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bazhart
Approved Trader


Joined: 20 May 2009
Posts: 1021
Location: Bolton Lancashire


PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All good advice but one question unanswered (unless I missed it?) what colour were the shinny non-metallic particles. If they were bronze, copper (not magnetic) or glittery it can also mean crankshaft bearing wear. If the mileage is over 80K I would monitor the particle release again soon (yes cut open the filter) and make sure they are just silver.

Now guys - please don't start having a go because this would be bad news - it's not my fault and the question has been asked and this is a real possibility and frankly - if they are from a crank bearing it will be cheaper to try and fix it before the crank is damaged than afterwards.

I really hope this is not the cause and that by checking the colour you can be reassured about it.

Good luck,


Baz
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jond58
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 19 Jun 2017
Posts: 279
Location: York


PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest depending on the car I’d be less worried about the ims exploding than I would be about the crank bearing destroying itself!!!
I have an oil analysis done every six months. I’ve no metal in the oil at the moment. I’m looking primarily for copper and lead. That’ll be the bearing and seen as I have zero so far the minute I see some it’ll be off for a rebuild hopefully in time that the crank isn’t destroyed beyond rework.
If you’ve seen some metal I’d be planning the work now, otherwise you’ll just drive round wondering when and not enjoying ownership!
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DarthFaker
Trainee


Joined: 13 Jun 2019
Posts: 93
Location: 1999 Carrera 4 Aerokit


PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bazhart wrote:
All good advice but one question unanswered (unless I missed it?) what colour were the shinny non-metallic particles. If they were bronze, copper (not magnetic) or glittery it can also mean crankshaft bearing wear. If the mileage is over 80K I would monitor the particle release again soon (yes cut open the filter) and make sure they are just silver.

Now guys - please don't start having a go because this would be bad news - it's not my fault and the question has been asked and this is a real possibility and frankly - if they are from a crank bearing it will be cheaper to try and fix it before the crank is damaged than afterwards.

I really hope this is not the cause and that by checking the colour you can be reassured about it.

Good luck,


Baz


This was my biggest fear when I saw metal in my oil filter, turned out to be the IMS, which thankfully has been replaced without any further debris contamination after being flushed thoroughly.
 
  
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DarthFaker
Trainee


Joined: 13 Jun 2019
Posts: 93
Location: 1999 Carrera 4 Aerokit


PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fabs911 wrote:
Dammit wrote:
What’s the mileage of the car?

The miles is about 85000 miles


Mine started to go at 76k I believe, replaced it at 79k.
 
  
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Fabs911
Newbie


Joined: 18 Jan 2020
Posts: 12



PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bazhart wrote:
All good advice but one question unanswered (unless I missed it?) what colour were the shinny non-metallic particles. If they were bronze, copper (not magnetic) or glittery it can also mean crankshaft bearing wear. If the mileage is over 80K I would monitor the particle release again soon (yes cut open the filter) and make sure they are just silver.

Now guys - please don't start having a go because this would be bad news - it's not my fault and the question has been asked and this is a real possibility and frankly - if they are from a crank bearing it will be cheaper to try and fix it before the crank is damaged than afterwards.

I really hope this is not the cause and that by checking the colour you can be reassured about it.

Good luck,


Baz


At the time they were gold. But they didn't settle on the oil drainer so I couldn't see properly.
Today at work, had another look at the filter and the magnet e I found that they are silver but really really tiny, like sand
Been silver and magnetic, I would say they are from IMS
I have already booked to replace the IMS bearing and I'll still keep the eye on it
 
  
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Fabs911
Newbie


Joined: 18 Jan 2020
Posts: 12



PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarthFaker wrote:
Fabs911 wrote:
Dammit wrote:
What’s the mileage of the car?

The miles is about 85000 miles


Mine started to go at 76k I believe, replaced it at 79k.


Yeah, I think is time to replace it. If ok it would be a peace of mind now that I find that
 
  
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adamw
Estoril


Joined: 09 Jul 2009
Posts: 3976
Location: West Sussex

1998 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fabs911 wrote:
I have already booked to replace the IMS bearing and I'll still keep the eye on it


What bearing you going for ? Original or aftermarket ?

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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7848
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bazhart wrote:
If they were bronze, copper (not magnetic) or glittery it can also mean crankshaft bearing wear.
Baz


Good call and one i didnt think of .. but then you are the expert here worship
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My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target .

Thank you all so Very much .

She's not going until july 2020 though .



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