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nickyg63
Trainee


Joined: 25 Aug 2019
Posts: 55



PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:35 am    Post subject: Hartech 3.9 vs GT3 Reply with quote

Hi,
I know the carrera 996 its never going to be a GT3 and I get that. But how accomplished would a 3.9 996 with a nice suspension setup be against a GT3?

GT3's are £50k, so spending the money to build a 3.9 makes for good man maths???

I love my 911 and if the engines gives out, i would hartech 3.9 convert it as you are having to spend so in for a penny, in for a pound!

I think Total 911 have got a write up in this months issue.

Has anyone done it, what else would you get done at the same time?

Thoughts please...
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 16202
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might find this thread of interest.

--> http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=125583&start=20&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=hartech
_________________
2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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mun802
Silverstone


Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Lancs


PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Ive had the 3.9 engine in mine now for 2,500 miles and thrilled to bits with it. additionally, its just had full suspension refresh and geo set up with Centre Gravity in December and whilst its transformed the handling Ive not really been able to test it as much as id like at present.
 
  
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nickyg63
Trainee


Joined: 25 Aug 2019
Posts: 55



PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
You might find this thread of interest.

--> http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=125583&start=20&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=hartech


Hi thanks for that, i have read it and Alex compared a tip 3.6 to 3.9 and these were a while ago. With some one that has had one for a while and the thoughts, i was hoping to get a tested opinion.

Cheers Nick
 
  
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nickyg63
Trainee


Joined: 25 Aug 2019
Posts: 55



PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mun802 wrote:
Well Ive had the 3.9 engine in mine now for 2,500 miles and thrilled to bits with it. additionally, its just had full suspension refresh and geo set up with Centre Gravity in December and whilst its transformed the handling Ive not really been able to test it as much as id like at present.


Perfect, thank you!

Just what i was hoping to hear, how long until you can push it??

DO you think it was worth the extra? If you dont mind asking how much to get the 3.9??

Many thanks
Nick
 
  
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mun802
Silverstone


Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Lancs


PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, it was worth it to me as I now have a car that drives and performs like it should...a keeper for sure Smile

Engine was £15k but there were few ancillaries/ extras changed at same time whilst engine was out.

Suspension £5K
 
  
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nickyg63
Trainee


Joined: 25 Aug 2019
Posts: 55



PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mun802 wrote:
Hi, it was worth it to me as I now have a car that drives and performs like it should...a keeper for sure Smile

Engine was £15k but there were few ancillaries/ extras changed at same time whilst engine was out.

Suspension £5K


Thanks for the reply, so a £30k sorted 996 vs a bottom end £50k GT3.

Good man maths to me.

Would be good to get a video of yours or a long term test write up??

Cheers again!
Nick
 
  
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cvega
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 25 Feb 2013
Posts: 297
Location: Cambridge


PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nickyg63 wrote:


Thanks for the reply, so a £30k sorted 996 vs a bottom end £50k GT3.

Nick



That was my logic when buying my 996.
Yes, i could've spent 35 k on a 997.2 to avoid engine issues
OR spend 10k on my 996 and let's say 15k on a engine rebuild and other issues - still some money left in the bank.
_________________

2003 996 C2 (Ohlins R&T suspension, Toyosport/Spyder exhaust)
 
  
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nickyg63
Trainee


Joined: 25 Aug 2019
Posts: 55



PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cvega wrote:
nickyg63 wrote:


Thanks for the reply, so a £30k sorted 996 vs a bottom end £50k GT3.

Nick



That was my logic when buying my 996.
Yes, i could've spent 35 k on a 997.2 to avoid engine issues
OR spend 10k on my 996 and let's say 15k on a engine rebuild and other issues - still some money left in the bank.


These value wise are worth spending on, which is great news
 
  
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peterg1955
Silverstone


Joined: 09 Apr 2017
Posts: 116
Location: Berkshire


PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If you dont mind asking how much to get the 3.9??


My car is being collected in a couple of weeks to go up to Hartech for a full rebuild including capacity increase from 3.6 to 3.9 as to my mind it's a no brainer while the engine is apart for everything anyway.

The cost for that is £13.2k inc vat plus any additional work found necessary whilst it is being done. I believe the separate cost for the capacity increase is approx. £2k inc vat of that total.

There is nothing obviously wrong with my engine currently although the left exhaust tip is slightly sootier than the right but I figured whilst I have the money available I'd rather get it all done and be able to enjoy it knowing that all the usual major failures were future proofed (fingers crossed).
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2002 996 C2 black/black with aerokit and M030
 
  
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nickyg63
Trainee


Joined: 25 Aug 2019
Posts: 55



PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peterg1955 wrote:
Quote:
If you dont mind asking how much to get the 3.9??


My car is being collected in a couple of weeks to go up to Hartech for a full rebuild including capacity increase from 3.6 to 3.9 as to my mind it's a no brainer while the engine is apart for everything anyway.

The cost for that is £13.2k inc vat plus any additional work found necessary whilst it is being done. I believe the separate cost for the capacity increase is approx. £2k inc vat of that total.

There is nothing obviously wrong with my engine currently although the left exhaust tip is slightly sootier than the right but I figured whilst I have the money available I'd rather get it all done and be able to enjoy it knowing that all the usual major failures were future proofed (fingers crossed).


Awesome, will be great to hear what you think about the conversion

Did you have a long wait time to get it in?

Keep us posted on the progress, thanks for the reply!
 
  
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 7448
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ghianightmare has a 4S with the 3.9... hopefully he will chime in with views too.

Assuming you don’t mind having a ‘modded’ car, the capacity increase is a no brainer over the cost of a full rebuild.

The main difference that I can see over the two engines is that the GT3 is built to rev, where the 3.9 is all about torque.

I agree though... for what I’d need to spend over the value of my 4S, I can’t think of a car I’d prefer to my 4S with a rebuilt and enhanced engine, plus renewed suspension...

Would still owe me less than an average 997.2.
_________________
"911- the guilt-free supercar"

Current: 2003 C4S Coupe, seal/black

Ex: '02 C4S Coupe, '96 993 Targa, '88 Carrera Sport Coupe
 
  
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nickyg63
Trainee


Joined: 25 Aug 2019
Posts: 55



PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robertb wrote:
Ghianightmare has a 4S with the 3.9... hopefully he will chime in with views too.

Assuming you don’t mind having a ‘modded’ car, the capacity increase is a no brainer over the cost of a full rebuild.

The main difference that I can see over the two engines is that the GT3 is built to rev, where the 3.9 is all about torque.

I agree though... for what I’d need to spend over the value of my 4S, I can’t think of a car I’d prefer to my 4S with a rebuilt and enhanced engine, plus renewed suspension...

Would still owe me less than an average 997.2.


great points
 
  
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Cunno
Indianapolis


Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Posts: 2374
Location: Nottinghamshire


PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know the Hartech engine build is normally a repair solution or a future proofing thing and now that a 3.9 is available it does sound like a no brainier. So has anyone dyno one yet, be very interested to here what they are producing.

Standard 3.6 produces 320bhp and 275 torque with the capacity increase where are they now 350 Bhp and 300 torque?
_________________
Porsche is for driving not for washing.
Present Car: 2006 3.6 Porsche GT3 997(White)
Ex: 2006 3.4 Porsche Cayman S (Silver)
Ex: 2001 2.7 Porsche Boxster (Seal Grey)
 
  
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nickyg63
Trainee


Joined: 25 Aug 2019
Posts: 55



PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cunno wrote:
I know the Hartech engine build is normally a repair solution or a future proofing thing and now that a 3.9 is available it does sound like a no brainier. So has anyone dyno one yet, be very interested to here what they are producing.

Standard 3.6 produces 320bhp and 275 torque with the capacity increase where are they now 350 Bhp and 300 torque?


I dont think you would to air off with those figures, maybe a bit more torque after the conversion.

Would be interesting to see a GT3 head to head with a Hartech
 
  
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crash7
Hockenheim


Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 688



PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cunno wrote:
I know the Hartech engine build is normally a repair solution or a future proofing thing and now that a 3.9 is available it does sound like a no brainier. So has anyone dyno one yet, be very interested to here what they are producing.

Standard 3.6 produces 320bhp and 275 torque with the capacity increase where are they now 350 Bhp and 300 torque?


Based on a 3.7 I would say a 3.9 would be circa 345bhp & 310 ft/lbs.

996.2 GT3’s are renowned for over performing, most dynoing at circa 390bhp.
 
  
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Cunno
Indianapolis


Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Posts: 2374
Location: Nottinghamshire


PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

996 Gt3 gen 2 comes standard with 380 Bhp and 275 torque so they would be close as the GT3 has longer gearing.

But Gt3's aren't about out right pace, it's a combination of power, grip and balance that makes them special. All of which can be copied or improved on depending on your required usage, there are some nice hot rods out there Thumb
_________________
Porsche is for driving not for washing.
Present Car: 2006 3.6 Porsche GT3 997(White)
Ex: 2006 3.4 Porsche Cayman S (Silver)
Ex: 2001 2.7 Porsche Boxster (Seal Grey)
 
  
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TV8
Trainee


Joined: 08 Nov 2019
Posts: 74
Location: Bromley


PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the risk of being a kill joy, based on my personal experience, the oversize rebuilt engine, with lots more power bespoke parts is the car that everyone wants on a forum but doesn’t actually want to buy when you come to sell.

Sure, you can get lucky when you come to sell but You have to prepare for a lack of enthusiasm from real buyers.

To balance that, when you get a nice open road you will always be glad that you have up-graded!
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MisterCorn
Dijon


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 7389
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TV8 wrote:
At the risk of being a kill joy, based on my personal experience, the oversize rebuilt engine, with lots more power bespoke parts is the car that everyone wants on a forum but doesn’t actually want to buy when you come to sell.

Sure, you can get lucky when you come to sell but You have to prepare for a lack of enthusiasm from real buyers.

To balance that, when you get a nice open road you will always be glad that you have up-graded!


Yes, a mod you do for yourself, not to sell the car.

MC
 
  
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 7448
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MisterCorn wrote:
TV8 wrote:
At the risk of being a kill joy, based on my personal experience, the oversize rebuilt engine, with lots more power bespoke parts is the car that everyone wants on a forum but doesn’t actually want to buy when you come to sell.

Sure, you can get lucky when you come to sell but You have to prepare for a lack of enthusiasm from real buyers.

To balance that, when you get a nice open road you will always be glad that you have up-graded!


Yes, a mod you do for yourself, not to sell the car.

MC


So, assuming you needed a rebuild, do you think for better resale prospects as and when it’s better to stick to standard spec?
_________________
"911- the guilt-free supercar"

Current: 2003 C4S Coupe, seal/black

Ex: '02 C4S Coupe, '96 993 Targa, '88 Carrera Sport Coupe
 
  
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