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997_2_C4S
Newbie


Joined: 27 Nov 2019
Posts: 21



PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:13 pm    Post subject: Have I bought a lemon? Reply with quote

So... long story short... all of my research told me that I didn’t need to worry about underbody corrosion as 997.2s were so well protected from the factory etc, so didn’t think to remove plastic under trays and sill covers to inspect before I bought my 997.2 C4S from Ashgood. Anyway, turns out it’s rusty as **** underneath, as my other thread on here. That’s being cut out and sorted and hopefully all cleaned up by a specialist at a cost of £2k but my concern now is that someone else (on here) mentioned it may have been a press car, which of course it is my worse nightmare as it would have been caned with zero sympathy.

How do I find out if it was a press car? The reg was RE58 YUT which obviously fits with Porsche GB in Reading. It’s an early gen 2 car, so could easily have been a press car, but it’s manual and most tests seem to have been PDK. There’s no sports chrono or sports seats, so that makes it slightly less likely to be a press car. It does have sports exhaust, PASM, short shift though.
 
  
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FZP
Estoril


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 3920
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spongebob has an ex press car, and it's all hunky dory. The press car gets a full going over after each journo returns it, basically a service.. There was a feature done on it, and I wanted to find for Sponge but never did. Outside of over revs, I wouldn't be bothered.
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997.2 Carrera 2S GT Silver/Cocoa.
 
  
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Rojdog
Silverstone


Joined: 08 Nov 2018
Posts: 138
Location: Essex


PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't worry about it.

Mines not a daily and gets driven like its stolen after being warmed up!

They are meant to be driven hard, they can take it so Just enjoy it!
 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7699
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've read your other posts but didn't comment .. you have now asked for an opinion so i will comment ..

Press cars are usually the very first of a new model .. press get to drive the car and make an opinion to publish what they think .

I'm not sure of the age of your car , i think it was 2009 but it depends on the build date as to whether this is one of the first of this model .

Press or not it doesn't make much difference .. it does however make a difference on just how it was driven and so you need to see what the over revs say ..

These are the ranges above what the car is designed to do .. they range from 1-6 with with each one being 200 rpm more than the last .. when it gets to 6 then its 1200 or higher .

Range 5-6 and there is engine damage according to Porsche .. they never used to include range 4 but these days they dont give a warranty on anything from range 4-6 without an inspection and without it having done more than 200 hours of operating after the event.

Range 6 and more than a couple of rev ranges and they will not warranty it at all .

In short .. if you haven't already got a rev range readout of the car .. and you should have when spending this sort of money then you need to get it checked .

If only a few in 1-3 then that isn't a problem .

Corrosion .. i've seen worse .. this strikes me as a coastal car .. most of it is surface corrosion .. there are no gaping holes and again to be honest i've never seen holes in one of these so far .. that's 996 onwards .

Yours will need some corrective work as you are well aware .

It looks bad but its not in the realms of a Datsun shall we say .

All in all its a shock .. shinny on the outside and not so nice on the underside .. unsure if you have redress with the seller but thats who i would be talking to first .

A bit harsh perhaps from me .. but i keep saying .. ppi first then decide .. sorry .
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997_2_C4S
Newbie


Joined: 27 Nov 2019
Posts: 21



PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deMort wrote:
I've read your other posts but didn't comment .. you have now asked for an opinion so i will comment ..

Press cars are usually the very first of a new model .. press get to drive the car and make an opinion to publish what they think .

I'm not sure of the age of your car , i think it was 2009 but it depends on the build date as to whether this is one of the first of this model .

Press or not it doesn't make much difference .. it does however make a difference on just how it was driven and so you need to see what the over revs say ..

These are the ranges above what the car is designed to do .. they range from 1-6 with with each one being 200 rpm more than the last .. when it gets to 6 then its 1200 or higher .

Range 5-6 and there is engine damage according to Porsche .. they never used to include range 4 but these days they dont give a warranty on anything from range 4-6 without an inspection and without it having done more than 200 hours of operating after the event.

Range 6 and more than a couple of rev ranges and they will not warranty it at all .

In short .. if you haven't already got a rev range readout of the car .. and you should have when spending this sort of money then you need to get it checked .

If only a few in 1-3 then that isn't a problem .

Corrosion .. i've seen worse .. this strikes me as a coastal car .. most of it is surface corrosion .. there are no gaping holes and again to be honest i've never seen holes in one of these so far .. that's 996 onwards .

Yours will need some corrective work as you are well aware .

It looks bad but its not in the realms of a Datsun shall we say .

All in all its a shock .. shinny on the outside and not so nice on the underside .. unsure if you have redress with the seller but thats who i would be talking to first .

A bit harsh perhaps from me .. but i keep saying .. ppi first then decide .. sorry .


Thank you for considered post. It looked fine underneath when it was at Ashgoods. And no over revs. And actually, those photographs show the worst. It’s been caught in time and by the end of next week will be better than new. The guys who are doing the work are the most thorough I know.
 
  
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spongebob squarepants
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 6244
Location: Manchester and Iraq


PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Have I bought a lemon? Reply with quote

997_2_C4S wrote:
So... long story short... all of my research told me that I didn’t need to worry about underbody corrosion as 997.2s were so well protected from the factory etc, so didn’t think to remove plastic under trays and sill covers to inspect before I bought my 997.2 C4S from Ashgood. Anyway, turns out it’s rusty as **** underneath, as my other thread on here. That’s being cut out and sorted and hopefully all cleaned up by a specialist at a cost of £2k but my concern now is that someone else (on here) mentioned it may have been a press car, which of course it is my worse nightmare as it would have been caned with zero sympathy.

How do I find out if it was a press car? The reg was RE58 YUT which obviously fits with Porsche GB in Reading. It’s an early gen 2 car, so could easily have been a press car, but it’s manual and most tests seem to have been PDK. There’s no sports chrono or sports seats, so that makes it slightly less likely to be a press car. It does have sports exhaust, PASM, short shift though.


First of all don’t worry about a press car! This is my second and I’d buy another tomorrow, most of the really interesting stuff will likely be a press car. Easy way to tell is put the reg in google, a press car will be immediately apparent normally. If yours was then the press didn’t drive it !
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991 C2S PDK - X51 430 Powerkit, Dynamic engine mounts, Carbon GT2 folding buckets, PCCB, PDCC, PSE, Carrera S alloys, Sports design bodykit with ducktail and Alcantara steering wheel. If Carling did a 991S...
“Herman yellow, the last of the naturally aspirated. ”YKIMS"

Simples ‘Yellow Porsche’s are the best’

 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7699
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ 997_2_C4S if no over revs then don't worry .. you will have to sort the corrosion which you are well aware of but its not as bad as it looks .. probably not cheap but nothing terminal .

A sad start to a new car but one that's once corrected .. and a few pounds spent will soon be forgotten .
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My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target .

Thank you all so Very much .

She's not going until july 2020 though .



Mechanic

7pm - 9pm

Indy Mechanic .
 
  
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 7443
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Press cars typically have a special option code... I can’t recall what but my first 4S had it on the spec label under the bonnet and service book.

Even if it is, they get massively overserviced by PCGB.

Have you spoken to Ashgood? Give them a chance to sort it to your satisfaction.
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"911- the guilt-free supercar"

Current: 2003 C4S Coupe, seal/black

Ex: '02 C4S Coupe, '96 993 Targa, '88 Carrera Sport Coupe
 
  
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MaxA
Albert Park


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 1701
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That doesn't qualify as a lemon in my view. A lemon tends to have trim falling off, poor paint, mechanical issues, oil weeping out, peculiar rattles and so on from the factory. Yours seems (only) to have some corrosion which you have spotted.
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997.2 Carrera4S: white over blue, driven and tracked, seldom clean.
 
  
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brownspeed
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 09 Jun 2016
Posts: 302
Location: Gods favourite city-Manchester


PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you consider working on the car as your hobby; then you just have a bit more project work to do. it keeps us out of the pub
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2004 997.1 C2S (Hartech rebuilt)
2002 TVR Tamora 3.6
1990 Mini Cooper RSP

Abarth 595
 
  
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spongebob squarepants
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 6244
Location: Manchester and Iraq


PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder how many people have removed all the undertrays and gubbins on a 997 Dont know Could this actually be pretty common Dont know
_________________
991 C2S PDK - X51 430 Powerkit, Dynamic engine mounts, Carbon GT2 folding buckets, PCCB, PDCC, PSE, Carrera S alloys, Sports design bodykit with ducktail and Alcantara steering wheel. If Carling did a 991S...
“Herman yellow, the last of the naturally aspirated. ”YKIMS"

Simples ‘Yellow Porsche’s are the best’

 
  
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FZP
Estoril


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 3920
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen under mine in the last week and other than the usual stuff like drive shafts, inner rear disc, exhaust hardware, everything is hunky dory.
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maldren
Suzuka


Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 1228



PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like FZP, mine looks very good underneath, that was a consideration when I bought it. However, it's recently started rusting and bubbling through the NS rear wheel arch, there a minor paint damage (stone chip?) on the wheel arch rim and the rust has got underneath and spread. It's an expensive repair because it requires a rear quarter respray so it's worth checking the wheel arches.
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Mike
2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
 
  
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Hertsdriver
Montreal


Joined: 12 Nov 2018
Posts: 502
Location: Hertfordshire/London

2004 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry I posted the link to the test now, I didn't mean to worry you (it does seem that the test I linked to is your car, it mentions the shift shift specifically).

Personally it wouldn't bother me if it were a press car, as others have said it will have been well looked after by Porsche GB if it were.

Any potential problems like an over rev issue you would have seen on a PPI (please tell me you did an independent PPI....). As DeMort mentioned it looks like a car that's been living on the coast rather than one that's been caned. There isn't really any way that being a press car would cause more corrosion underneath.

Just enjoy it Thumb
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DarthFaker
Newbie


Joined: 13 Jun 2019
Posts: 49



PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Journalists can't drive fast anyway, wouldn't worry about it, they're pencil pushers not racing drivers.

Plus if it were a press car it was maintained without consideration of cost and driven regularly. Both of which are better than it being sat in a garage and polished.

Just my 2 pence.
 
  
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997_2_C4S
Newbie


Joined: 27 Nov 2019
Posts: 21



PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hertsdriver wrote:
I'm sorry I posted the link to the test now, I didn't mean to worry you (it does seem that the test I linked to is your car, it mentions the shift shift specifically).

Personally it wouldn't bother me if it were a press car, as others have said it will have been well looked after by Porsche GB if it were.

Any potential problems like an over rev issue you would have seen on a PPI (please tell me you did an independent PPI....). As DeMort mentioned it looks like a car that's been living on the coast rather than one that's been caned. There isn't really any way that being a press car would cause more corrosion underneath.

Just enjoy it Thumb


Am curious why that test specifically links it to my car... I can’t see a picture on the test...
 
  
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Hertsdriver
Montreal


Joined: 12 Nov 2018
Posts: 502
Location: Hertfordshire/London

2004 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

997_2_C4S wrote:

Am curious why that test specifically links it to my car... I can’t see a picture on the test...


Can you not see the image at the top of the screen? I took a screen grab.

here is the link to the image of your car shown in the header of the site, which coincidentally seems to be next to the sea:
https://www.carkeys.co.uk/media/11877/pr911063-1.jpg

But more importantly, what did the PPI show up on the rev report?
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997_2_C4S
Newbie


Joined: 27 Nov 2019
Posts: 21



PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hertsdriver wrote:
997_2_C4S wrote:

Am curious why that test specifically links it to my car... I can’t see a picture on the test...


Can you not see the image at the top of the screen? I took a screen grab.

here is the link to the image of your car shown in the header of the site, which coincidentally seems to be next to the sea:
https://www.carkeys.co.uk/media/11877/pr911063-1.jpg

But more importantly, what did the PPI show up on the rev report?


Oh that’s weird. Mine shows only a cropped image. No number plate. Yes PPI fine. And good news from the wonderful specialist doing the work:

Don’t worry, I would say if I thought if wasn’t OK!
It probably looks worse than it is. The rusty thing on the left hand side of the photo is a sill tray retaining fastener, all of which are very rusty but there functional strength isn’t impaired. The blistering is just the blanket sprayed seam sealer coating that the water has got behind which is being pushed out.
To rectify this we will locally remove the coating around the failed areas, you will find just outside of this the condition will be perfect. We will then prep the corroded bits, apply a rust converter/epoxy product (Dinitrol RC900) then along with all the other bits will brush apply a specialist black epoxy resin paint, which is an exceptionally good primer in these situations. Once dry we will seal the area with a brush-able seam sealer. Followed by the various Dinitrol waxes.
Also shining a light inside the sill through one of the vent holes and peering down another reveals the internal condition to be excellent. We will of course wax inside these cavities. (Some of these may indirectly vent internally behind the carpet etc so some wax solvent/vapour may be able to be smelt inside the car for a period of time but given the potential vulnerability to corrosion i would recommend treating them)
 
  
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Lenny39
Newbie


Joined: 26 Oct 2018
Posts: 26



PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure why its more likely to rust underneath if its an old press car? Mine is a similar age. When I purchased it the only rust found underneath was from the heat shields, rest was fine. I will keep an eye on it, I live by the sea but its garaged most of the time.
 
  
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Robert SausageTrousers
Monza


Joined: 02 Apr 2018
Posts: 241



PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pic of the car, for reference.

 
  
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