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timbo1811
Silverstone


Joined: 13 Dec 2016
Posts: 129
Location: Dorset


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been learning to TIG weld from someone who really knows their stuff and I would say that a TIG weld is definitely possible there, heat is very localised and no sparking, pick someone who is experienced at aluminium welding, it is an art, the guy I have been learning from said he had seen someone TIG weld aluminium foil! just to demonstrate his skill.

My other suggestion would be if you could get enough access to cut that section out and replace with a piece of hose.

I also think Demorts fix would work fine, perhaps a piece of metal under the clip to spread the load.
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Last edited by timbo1811 on Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:11 pm; edited 2 times in total
 
  
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portreathbeach
Trainee


Joined: 09 Aug 2015
Posts: 62



PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The space is very tight. I think it would be very difficult to cut out a section and put a rubber hose in.
 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7573
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Access is very limited there .. it won't be an easy job doing any kind of repair im afraid .

We still need Lee to get back to us on his sealant but the Porsche sealant we use these days is Loctite 5900 .. this in the hole and a strip of rubber will act as a second seal .. the band from the jubilee clip is enough to bond it in place i feel.

That is just a guess from me so take all views into account then decide what you want to do .. i'm no expert im afraid .
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GMG
Nürburgring


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 459
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...tbh given how essential coolant is and given the extremely tight working space I wouldn't risk a 'bodge' ... if it fails you might ruin your engine...drop the engine and do it properly...you can then complete some other important jobs whilst the engine is out which will add value in the longer term....

The risk to cost just isn't worth it...
 
  
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timbo1811
Silverstone


Joined: 13 Dec 2016
Posts: 129
Location: Dorset


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a low coolant warning lamp......
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GMG
Nürburgring


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 459
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...hmmm, does it stop pressurised coolant from escaping Dont know
 
  
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timbo1811
Silverstone


Joined: 13 Dec 2016
Posts: 129
Location: Dorset


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

........of course not, but when my rad blew I got plenty of warning, no reason it wouldn't do the same in the unlikely event that demorts repair failed.
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portreathbeach
Trainee


Joined: 09 Aug 2015
Posts: 62



PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've emailed the closest indy garage to me, the place I last had it serviced, and explained the problem. They quoted me for an engine drop, replacing both pipes and also doing the brake lines that run over the gearbox.....£1763.

I also contacted RK Engineering and they charge a lot less per hour and could drop the engine and do the work for me. I asked if they had anyone who was good at TIG welding and could possibly get enough space to sort it. They are going to take a look on the 10th December.

Meanwhile, I know another guy who's mate is a vary experienced with TIG, and he may pop over to see what he can do.

It needs to get sorted one way or the other, just depends how much it's going to cost Sad
 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7573
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off i know absolutely nothing about tig welding ..

My concern .. if its anything like the other welding types then it could blow a hole .. at which point you have no choice other than a recover to a garage and an engine drop .

Tig experts need to answer that one .

First question i would be asking is can this happen ?

The correct repair is obviously an engine drop .. but you like me probably don't have vast amounts of cash lying around on hand for things like this .. hence a temp repair for now is what i'm advocating .
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portreathbeach
Trainee


Joined: 09 Aug 2015
Posts: 62



PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also don’t know much about TIG welding, but there are guys that are extremely good at it. There are videos on YouTube of people TIG welding aluminium foil. But as you said, if a hole is blown through the pipe, I’m in a ‘hole’ lot of trouble.
 
  
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timbo1811
Silverstone


Joined: 13 Dec 2016
Posts: 129
Location: Dorset


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I'm no expert either, but I have seen an expert in action and its quite different to Arc or Mig, heat is more localised with little or no spatter, in the right hands its quite amazing to watch, there is also little or no noise. If a slight hole were made I've seen it built up without too much difficulty. I believe the gas used has to be pure Argon for aluminum. If you can find the right person and access is possible this job should be doable, and save you a tidy sum.
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brownspeed
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 09 Jun 2016
Posts: 277
Location: Gods favourite city-Manchester


PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

portreathbeach wrote:

I also contacted RK Engineering and they charge a lot less per hour and could drop the engine and do the work for me. I asked if they had anyone who was good at TIG welding and could possibly get enough space to sort it. They are going to take a look on the 10th December.
Sad

If you've got someone in mind to drop the engine; why bother getting it welded? if it were me- i'd swap the pipe.
Bear in mind that coolant pipes may have corroded from the inside. TiG welding anything like this is difficult- especially aluminium which can be notoriously difficult when its aged and oxidised.
I wish you luck- and please keep us posted
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Robert SausageTrousers
Monza


Joined: 02 Apr 2018
Posts: 235



PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the guys at RKE really are more than capable of doing the job, they'll look after the car too. They also happen to be pretty much on your doorstep!
 
  
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C4Silver
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 14 Aug 2019
Posts: 272



PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Always keen to read up on these threads as others will no doubt agree that if coolant appears in that area then there’s a good chance I’ll remember this post, I’ll certainly remember the cost involved, definately do other items whilst the engine is dropped including the opposite side ? And brake lines as suggested very wisely, the other thing that’s stuck out for me is WHY? Was there a Jubilee clip on the other pipe ? I’m no expert on anything mechanical but can’t help think a similar “short term repair” may well have been carried out in the other pipe ?

It seems odd that the knuckle on the clip would be left to rub on the coolant return hose from the factory so presumably some ones been in that area already ?

Just a thought,

Good heads up on the sealant tho Iain, I could use that on various applications,

👍
 
  
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portreathbeach
Trainee


Joined: 09 Aug 2015
Posts: 62



PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I will have to drive the car to the garage to get it repaired, I thought I'd start the car to see just how much coolant leeks out.....The answer....A ***** load. I definitely will not risk driving it to the garage.

I called a friend of mine that has a recovery truck and a garage to see if he could take it there for me. He then said the other owner of their garage has worked on Porsches before and is keen to work on mine, and can come and get it Tuesday next week. I'm going to get the thing done propperly, engine out, both coolant pipes done, brakes lines and anything else that is cheap and easy to do while the engine is out.

I've been thinking about the sealant idea, TIG welding etc, but due to the limited space and the fact it would be on my mind every time I drive the car, replacing the pipe is definitely the best option, maybe not the most cost effective though.

Fingers crossed

Last edited by portreathbeach on Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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darkhorse
Monza


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 165
Location: under the car


PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brownspeed wrote:
portreathbeach wrote:

I also contacted RK Engineering and they charge a lot less per hour and could drop the engine and do the work for me. I asked if they had anyone who was good at TIG welding and could possibly get enough space to sort it. They are going to take a look on the 10th December.
Sad

If you've got someone in mind to drop the engine; why bother getting it welded? if it were me- i'd swap the pipe.
Bear in mind that coolant pipes may have corroded from the inside. TiG welding anything like this is difficult- especially aluminium which can be notoriously difficult when its aged and oxidised.
I wish you luck- and please keep us posted


This ^^
It is quite possible to tig weld a patch over the area, all it would need is another pipe section or piece of alloy that was tweaked to make the correct profile; provided they can get enough access to all sides of the patch and also evacuate the coolant that may get drawn towards the heat of the welding.
A simpler alternative would be to jbweld a patch piece on, if done well that could be a permanent fix, until you get the pipe replaced at some point.

Last edited by darkhorse on Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7573
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

portreathbeach wrote:


I've been thinking about the sealant idea, TIG welding etc, but due to the limited space and the fact it would be on my mind every time I drive the car, replacing the pipe is definitely the best option, maybe not the most cost effective though.

Fingers crossed


Fair play to you Sir .. you have listened to the advise we have all given and made up your mind as to what's best for you ..

Damn good forum this is !
_________________
.

My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target .

Thank you all so Very much .

She's not going until july 2020 though .



Mechanic

7pm - 9pm

Now At An Indy.
 
  
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portreathbeach
Trainee


Joined: 09 Aug 2015
Posts: 62



PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a bit confused.

My mate has asked if I can supply the parts needed when the engine is removed. As the pipe that is damaged has the part number on it, that one is easy, I searched design911 and found that pipe and also the one for the other side, but I don't know what the part numbers are for the other pipes that the Porsche garage recommended changing are.

They also quoted for...

Water hose (supply) £36.92
Water hose (return) £59.95

At least I have a rough guide price, but they are not on the diagram I am looking at..


https://www.design911.co.uk/pages/diagramsBrowser.aspx?categoryID=1&diagramID=3388

Any help would be great
 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7573
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1 , 5 and 2 are the common pipes we replace if an engine is dropped with 2 being your damaged one .

https://www.deroure.com/diagrams.asp?TBL=2766&MAK=3&MDL=26&SMA=0&SMO=0&ST=&SC=0

brake pipes are extra .. if not corroded then dont bother .

Rubber pipes are as needed if they are corroded or dont come out of each pipe .

Confirm these are the correct ones for you car Smile
_________________
.

My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target .

Thank you all so Very much .

She's not going until july 2020 though .



Mechanic

7pm - 9pm

Now At An Indy.
 
  
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portreathbeach
Trainee


Joined: 09 Aug 2015
Posts: 62



PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These look like the right ones.

Would you suggest getting the pipe brackets too? As they are less than £3 each, I would think it's worth changing them too?

What rubber hoses do you think the Porsche garage were going on about.
 
  
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