Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:53 am Post subject: Potentially looking to get into a 997 Turbo - Queriy/Options
Hi all,
Bit of an introduction, I currently have a 507 Edition C63 which I love but its my second C63 and I'm now looking to scratch the 911 itch.
Has anyone else moved on from a W204?
Ive been ideally looking for a 997.2 Turbo PDK but the prices seem all over the place. Ive seen a couple sub 60k cars but most are high 60's and 70's... which then made me look at Turbo S's and they are 70K too... Are the standard turbo's priced at 60k+ dreaming? The prices are not even consistent with low mileage cars.
What options did the 997.2 have and what are the must haves? Personally I like the centre lock wheels but that's about it? Ideally will be looking for a black car but open to others.
Cheers
Dan
Phil 997 Le Mans
Joined: 05 Dec 2015 Posts: 15566 Location: Bournemouth,Dorset
Welcome to the group Dan . I am sure some of the guys with Turbos will be along shortly to answer your questions . are you asking what the differences are between the 997.1 turbo and the 997.2 turbo or between the 997.2 turbo and the 997.2 turbo S and just to confuse us they also has a 997.1.5 turbo which was a mix of 997.1 and 997.2 cars made during the cross over of the 2 generations . _________________ 911 Owners,Some Invest In The Future,
Others Enjoy The Moment Today.
Hi Dan, I have a 997.2 and moved up to it from a 997.1 tip. Your picking the best car (in my opinion) as the PDK is light years ahead of the 'tip'.
Prices are all over the place but as you'll know you get what you pay for. First thing check the provenance of the car and makes sure it has Full OPC service history. There's nothing wrong with Indies and their work is as good as OPC but those Porsche stamps mean a hell of a lot when it's time to sell.
The cars themselves are pretty much bomb proof, the engines are very reliable and I've not heard of any issues with bits failing, the IMS topic doesn't apply to this engine.
The 997 Turbo S is not a very common sight, there are some for sale and the main difference is the S has PCCB's and slightly more power up by 30 bhp. The Sport Chrono package is a must have on the Turbo as it gives you an overboost when in Sport mode and it does make a big difference, also trying to sell a non Sport Chrono car will be a pain. TBH most Turbo's have it as std.
The cars are bonkers fast and the handling and chassis are superb with the 4 wd. You can vastly improve the ride by fitting an after market DSC computer box for about £1000 new or £750 SH.
The gen 2's are more tuneable than the older model and by this I mean they're easier to tune with the DFi engine, an exhaust and a remap with better intercoolers will give you 600 bhp quite easily but to be honest it doesn't make a massive difference.
Servicing is about £450 or £995 for the 4 yearly big service, if it's had a big service make sure the plugs were changed as some cut corners by not doing them and it can be a big problem on high mileage cars and by this I mean trying to get the old plugs out!
Buy one you will love it, you never get tired of a Turbo _________________ 997 Turbo Gen 2
997 Turbo Tiptronic S
Porsche 968 Coupe 1992
Porsche 928 S4
Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera 1985
T8 General
Joined: 29 Jun 2010 Posts: 16121 Location: Kent
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Potentially looking to get into a 997 Turbo - Queriy/Opt
IbanezDan wrote:
.... Ive been ideally looking for a 997.2 Turbo PDK but the prices seem all over the place. Ive seen a couple sub 60k cars but most are high 60's and 70's... which then made me look at Turbo S's and they are 70K too... Are the standard turbo's priced at 60k+ dreaming? The prices are not even consistent with low mileage cars .......
Most of the sub-£60k cars are higher mileage and/or private sales. Both of these factors will significantly affect values.
Cars with less than 50k miles showing will a lot more expensive and, if being sold by a Porsche Specialist, £67k+ would not be unexpectedly high.
Happy Hunting
ps. to 911uk _________________ 2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
Martian Sepang
Joined: 18 Mar 2009 Posts: 2936 Location: Bury St. Edmunds
My 997.1 Turbo with manual gearbox will be advertised this weekend. Low mileage (45K), ceramics and in great condition. _________________ Manheller Racing - Nürburgring
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:56 pm Post subject: 997.1 turbo
Hi Dan
I bought a gen1 997 turbo manual a few year back . I wanted a gen 2 with PDK, but didn’t have the extra 20-25 k ,@ 75k so went for the gen 1 manual @ 50k
Don’t not Rule out a gen 1 car or buying private. But get it a PPI at Porsche . Even if the car is from used car dealer giving a warranty.
I love my gen 1 car with the few mods I have done .
Buy on spec and condition.
Enjoy
maph Monza
Joined: 01 Feb 2017 Posts: 188
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:56 pm Post subject:
Hi Dan,
Differences are that the S had the following as standard.......
Extra 30 bhp
Carbon airbox
Sport Chrono - on the 997.2 it inc dynamic engine mounts
PCCB - Check for wear
CL wheels - some had non CL specified as a no cost option
PTV - Porsche Torque Vectoring
PDK - very few manual non S 997.2 around
Dynamic lights
Adaptive seats
Many of the non S ones out there will have many of the above added as options.
Other options on both included.......
Aero kit - Fixed spoiler on rear, different front splitter, few more painted parts
Sunroof
Coloured dials
Coloured seat belts
Carbon on interior trim
Extra leather on interior trim bits
Diviated leather stitching
Carbon buckets (rare from factory)
Clear rear lights
Crest on seats
Crest on armrest
Illuminated sill covers plates in carbon
Sure I have missed loads but gives you an idea of what to look for.
Both the S and non S are a great car, best of luck in your hunt _________________ 2012 997.2 Turbo S - ES650
Manuals are quite rare, not so much on the Gen 1 but the Gen 2.
One thing to watch out for with a manual and you must get it checked, is Over Rev's on the engine.
Centre locks might look good but they are a pain if you need to remove a wheel for whatever reason.
One thing with Porsche and it would seem to be more so with the Turbo's is people shy away from cars that have been 'modified'. There was a really nice Black Turbo for sale at Redline when I was looking around and in the end they had to revert it back to std to move it on. There was nothing wrong with the car at all they just couldn't sell it with all the mods on. _________________ 997 Turbo Gen 2
997 Turbo Tiptronic S
Porsche 968 Coupe 1992
Porsche 928 S4
Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera 1985
maph Monza
Joined: 01 Feb 2017 Posts: 188
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:09 am Post subject:
easternjets wrote:
One thing with Porsche and it would seem to be more so with the Turbo's is people shy away from cars that have been 'modified'. There was a really nice Black Turbo for sale at Redline when I was looking around and in the end they had to revert it back to std to move it on. There was nothing wrong with the car at all they just couldn't sell it with all the mods on.
Think that one is mine It never went back to standard and is still an ES650.
Agree that most people do not want a modified one, that mods generally do not add value and will limit your market. I ended up paying the same as a standard car but with £20K + of mods and all the original parts. _________________ 2012 997.2 Turbo S - ES650
IbanezDan Newbie
Joined: 20 Nov 2019 Posts: 5
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:19 am Post subject:
Phil 997 wrote:
Welcome to the group Dan . I am sure some of the guys with Turbos will be along shortly to answer your questions . are you asking what the differences are between the 997.1 turbo and the 997.2 turbo or between the 997.2 turbo and the 997.2 turbo S and just to confuse us they also has a 997.1.5 turbo which was a mix of 997.1 and 997.2 cars made during the cross over of the 2 generations .
Hi Phil,
I'm pretty sure I am going to stick with looking for a 997.2, the issues surround bore scoring and RMS on the older cars puts me off. So my queries were really based around 997 Turbo and Turbo S. With the current market there doesn't seem to be much of a difference in price between the two but I am guessing its because most of the Turbo's are currently overpriced?
What common faults should I look out for and what were the options?
Thanks
Dan
IbanezDan Newbie
Joined: 20 Nov 2019 Posts: 5
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:22 am Post subject:
easternjets wrote:
Hi Dan, I have a 997.2 and moved up to it from a 997.1 tip. Your picking the best car (in my opinion) as the PDK is light years ahead of the 'tip'.
Prices are all over the place but as you'll know you get what you pay for. First thing check the provenance of the car and makes sure it has Full OPC service history. There's nothing wrong with Indies and their work is as good as OPC but those Porsche stamps mean a hell of a lot when it's time to sell.
The cars themselves are pretty much bomb proof, the engines are very reliable and I've not heard of any issues with bits failing, the IMS topic doesn't apply to this engine.
The 997 Turbo S is not a very common sight, there are some for sale and the main difference is the S has PCCB's and slightly more power up by 30 bhp. The Sport Chrono package is a must have on the Turbo as it gives you an overboost when in Sport mode and it does make a big difference, also trying to sell a non Sport Chrono car will be a pain. TBH most Turbo's have it as std.
The cars are bonkers fast and the handling and chassis are superb with the 4 wd. You can vastly improve the ride by fitting an after market DSC computer box for about £1000 new or £750 SH.
The gen 2's are more tuneable than the older model and by this I mean they're easier to tune with the DFi engine, an exhaust and a remap with better intercoolers will give you 600 bhp quite easily but to be honest it doesn't make a massive difference.
Servicing is about £450 or £995 for the 4 yearly big service, if it's had a big service make sure the plugs were changed as some cut corners by not doing them and it can be a big problem on high mileage cars and by this I mean trying to get the old plugs out!
Buy one you will love it, you never get tired of a Turbo
Thank you for this reply! Very insightful. Funnily enough there seems to be more 997.2 Turbo S cars for sale than normal currently!
Thanks,
Dan
IbanezDan Newbie
Joined: 20 Nov 2019 Posts: 5
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:26 am Post subject:
maph wrote:
Hi Dan,
Differences are that the S had the following as standard.......
Extra 30 bhp
Carbon airbox
Sport Chrono - on the 997.2 it inc dynamic engine mounts
PCCB - Check for wear
CL wheels - some had non CL specified as a no cost option
PTV - Porsche Torque Vectoring
PDK - very few manual non S 997.2 around
Dynamic lights
Adaptive seats
Many of the non S ones out there will have many of the above added as options.
Other options on both included.......
Aero kit - Fixed spoiler on rear, different front splitter, few more painted parts
Sunroof
Coloured dials
Coloured seat belts
Carbon on interior trim
Extra leather on interior trim bits
Diviated leather stitching
Carbon buckets (rare from factory)
Clear rear lights
Crest on seats
Crest on armrest
Illuminated sill covers plates in carbon
Sure I have missed loads but gives you an idea of what to look for.
Both the S and non S are a great car, best of luck in your hunt
Perfect thanks! Think I saw your post and ended up seeing you got a bargain of a car?
I'd like to find a sub 30K mile car with low owners and potentially still Porsche warranty. We shall see... need to move the 63 on first and I am in no rush because the car is so engaging and fun to drive! (The noise! )
Dan
maph Monza
Joined: 01 Feb 2017 Posts: 188
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:50 am Post subject:
IbanezDan wrote:
I'd like to find a sub 30K mile car with low owners and potentially still Porsche warranty. We shall see... need to move the 63 on first and I am in no rush because the car is so engaging and fun to drive! (The noise! )
Hi Dan,
You will miss the noise, especially if you keep the standard exhaust Mine has a Sharkwerks exhaust with 200 cell cats which makes a big difference.
Looking on Autotrader if you are looking at coupes it looks like there are 15 non S and 10 S for sale. There were similar numbers built from memory, slightly less non S 250ish and 270ish S) Price difference between them looks to be approx £6-10K depending on spec which sounds about right.
I am sure you will find what you are after, they are great cars, mines a keeper, enjoy the hunt _________________ 2012 997.2 Turbo S - ES650
Counter Of Beans Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 10 May 2018 Posts: 371 Location: Hampshire
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:18 pm Post subject:
Hello Dan. I had a C63 W204 wagon for a few months, and sold it to get back into a 911. I drove a gen 2 turbo during the process, and my thoughts are as follows:
The turbo is so bloody fast that it's scary. In fact, it is much too fast for UK roads, at least where I live, and so you can never use all of that performance. The same is true of the C63 however, but the Merc makes a nicer noise.
I found a PDK equipped Porsche turbo a little bit "detached". You've got a car that is crazily fast, with 4wd and lots of driver aids, which can change gear itself, and makes very little noise. For me, at least (other opinions are available) it all adds up to a lack of engagement.
And then there's the age of gen 2 cars - typically ten years or so. This may mean that some big bills are due, mostly suspension-related. So you need to check what work has been done by previous owner(s).
So, the gen 2 turbo wasn't for me I'm afraid. I went old school and bought a 1995 993 manual coupe instead, which gives much more involvement - I suppose it depends what you want from a car. Just my thoughts, you understand. _________________ I'm Mike and I count beans for a living.
One thing with Porsche and it would seem to be more so with the Turbo's is people shy away from cars that have been 'modified'. There was a really nice Black Turbo for sale at Redline when I was looking around and in the end they had to revert it back to std to move it on. There was nothing wrong with the car at all they just couldn't sell it with all the mods on.
Think that one is mine It never went back to standard and is still an ES650.
Agree that most people do not want a modified one, that mods generally do not add value and will limit your market. I ended up paying the same as a standard car but with £20K + of mods and all the original parts.
That was a really nice car, I drove it for about an hour and it was very quick but not as fast as I thought it would be with that much extra power. The guy who had that car spent, I heard, nearly £35 k on it.
I just found Redline very difficult to deal with, I think they just wanted a cash buyer and no T/In so my car got slated and offered me peanuts for it. _________________ 997 Turbo Gen 2
997 Turbo Tiptronic S
Porsche 968 Coupe 1992
Porsche 928 S4
Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera 1985
IbanezDan Newbie
Joined: 20 Nov 2019 Posts: 5
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:46 pm Post subject:
Counter Of Beans wrote:
Hello Dan. I had a C63 W204 wagon for a few months, and sold it to get back into a 911. I drove a gen 2 turbo during the process, and my thoughts are as follows:
The turbo is so bloody fast that it's scary. In fact, it is much too fast for UK roads, at least where I live, and so you can never use all of that performance. The same is true of the C63 however, but the Merc makes a nicer noise.
I found a PDK equipped Porsche turbo a little bit "detached". You've got a car that is crazily fast, with 4wd and lots of driver aids, which can change gear itself, and makes very little noise. For me, at least (other opinions are available) it all adds up to a lack of engagement.
And then there's the age of gen 2 cars - typically ten years or so. This may mean that some big bills are due, mostly suspension-related. So you need to check what work has been done by previous owner(s).
So, the gen 2 turbo wasn't for me I'm afraid. I went old school and bought a 1995 993 manual coupe instead, which gives much more involvement - I suppose it depends what you want from a car. Just my thoughts, you understand.
Fully understand this, I do have some nice roads around me, however, I cant use my C63 in anger for very long until I've lost my licence and had to sell my house to pay the fine. A turbo may make this worse and I have never driven one so perhaps the first thing I need to do is go to a local dealership with a 997 and have a test drive.
Thanks,
Dan
maph Monza
Joined: 01 Feb 2017 Posts: 188
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:15 pm Post subject:
easternjets wrote:
That was a really nice car, I drove it for about an hour and it was very quick but not as fast as I thought it would be with that much extra power. The guy who had that car spent, I heard, nearly £35 k on it.
I just found Redline very difficult to deal with, I think they just wanted a cash buyer and no T/In so my car got slated and offered me peanuts for it.
I have not driven a standard one so cannot compare, plenty quick enough though Yeah previous owner said to me he spent £35K on it but some of it was on a tune with DMS which he was disappointed with hence the work by ESMotor. Some was a service, tyres, condensor, set of brake pads.....all adds up so I reckon £25K was in the car when I bought it.
Redline were great with me, I pushed them pretty hard for the deal, but did cash without a trade so made life easy for them. _________________ 2012 997.2 Turbo S - ES650
T8 General
Joined: 29 Jun 2010 Posts: 16121 Location: Kent
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:13 am Post subject:
IbanezDan wrote:
Fully understand this, I do have some nice roads around me, however, I cant use my C63 in anger for very long until I've lost my licence and had to sell my house to pay the fine. A turbo may make this worse and I have never driven one so perhaps the first thing I need to do is go to a local dealership with a 997 and have a test drive.
I don't know if it helps but my daily is a 5 litre V8 XF and my fun car is a 997.1T so a similar comparison to your C63 vs a 997.2T.
On the same roads both can reach licence losing speeds in a short space of time but only one feels like it was built to do so.
The size and weight mean that there is no comparison between hustling a high performance saloon and a purpose built sports car around on twisty A roads and more especially UK B roads.
If you've never driven a 911 you'd be surprised at how quick a Carrera is on familiar roads. A turbo would have you gobsmacked. _________________ 2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
S14 Trainee
Joined: 18 Jan 2015 Posts: 75
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:11 pm Post subject:
I would say get a 997.2 Turbo S. So much more equipment as standard. Crazy fast. They hold value well .always buy with full porsche history and a porsche warranty. Come resale will help. They will pick up again after the usual winter blip and Brexit. I'd buy on historrsthervthan the cheapest one. Low miles are also.good
Legzr1 Newbie
Joined: 15 Feb 2017 Posts: 45
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:47 pm Post subject:
T8 wrote:
IbanezDan wrote:
Fully understand this, I do have some nice roads around me, however, I cant use my C63 in anger for very long until I've lost my licence and had to sell my house to pay the fine. A turbo may make this worse and I have never driven one so perhaps the first thing I need to do is go to a local dealership with a 997 and have a test drive.
I don't know if it helps but my daily is a 5 litre V8 XF and my fun car is a 997.1T so a similar comparison to your C63 vs a 997.2T.
On the same roads both can reach licence losing speeds in a short space of time but only one feels like it was built to do so.
The size and weight mean that there is no comparison between hustling a high performance saloon and a purpose built sports car around on twisty A roads and more especially UK B roads.
If you've never driven a 911 you'd be surprised at how quick a Carrera is on familiar roads. A turbo would have you gobsmacked.
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to 911uk
It never went back to standard and is still an ES650.
Yeah previous owner said to me he spent £35K on it but some of it was on a tune with DMS which he was disappointed with hence the work by ESMotor. Some was a service, tyres, condensor, set of brake pads.....all adds up so I reckon £25K was in the car when I bought it.
