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NLW73
Albert Park


Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 1553
Location: Yateley


PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oem seats With electric parts on them weight loads so try lightweight buckets

Glass is really heavy. Maybe change the rear screen and side windows to lexan if it’s not a daily road car

What about the roof - you can remove the oem one and get a carbon one put in but not cheap

If you car has a sun roof then get that welded up with a panel and remove all the gubbins for the sun roof

Big yes to cycling as I have lost 10kgs doing off road mountain biking . Plus never go with more than half a tank

If you don’t carry a passenger that much then take that seat out too

Remove the rear seats and put in lighter carpet

Take out the sound deadening under the carpet using heat gun and petrol. Messy and horrid job but that crap weighs a tonne!
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Dammit
Indianapolis


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 2385



PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.plastics4performance.com/porsche-996-lexan-full-window-kit.html
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The return of Marty Wild
Kyalami


Joined: 04 Nov 2016
Posts: 1840



PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You notice when you have someone in the car beside you don’t you, has to apply when you lose a similar wait from the car.

I’ve lost a fair bit from my leggy Boxster, racing batt and CF seats loses 30kgs without breaking a sweat.

Toying with the idea of losing the stereo and A/C. Lost the spare wheel and jacking kit, whacked a compressor and slime in.
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crash7
Hockenheim


Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 678



PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You will not notice 50kg's in weight loss, you may experience a placebo effect, but you wont feel any performance benefit, particularly on the road.

If you track the car 50kg may just be noticeable if your an experienced driver.

Take the easy wins, which are effectively free as your removing things from the car, spare wheel, tool kit, radio etc OEM. Once you have completed this, you need to start spending money. - OEM battery is 20kg, a lightweight alternative will save you circa 10-12kg for around £150, beyond that its starts to really cost. - Buckets are a big saving but your taking circa £1k for a pair

I would also not remove one of the fans if your using the car as a daily. - GT3RS is a mezger and you have an M96.

I have a 997 Cup car electric power steering pump, weight savings are minor over the original, there are other benefits, but significant weight savings are not one of them.

Ask yourself if you notice a significant difference in performance from when the car is full of fuel too when its nearly empty? - This equates to about 45Kg's
 
  
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NedHan79
Hockenheim


Joined: 08 Nov 2018
Posts: 654



PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was looking at that Alex as I had the steering rack dropped to do some other repairs but decided it might be more hassle than it’s worth. I do have a whine which is possibly the ps pump so I might look more at it. I have the rack and subframe back in now but it’s not a big job to get back at it. I wasn’t keen on the arrangement in the frunk tbh.
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Dammit
Indianapolis


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 2385



PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My seat was £865, the base was around £450 IIRC, but has an integral 5/6 belt mounting bar plus mounts for the hip belts.

You can get lucky on eBay with complete sets of compressor, tyre gunk etc.
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NedHan79
Hockenheim


Joined: 08 Nov 2018
Posts: 654



PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dammit I’m not sold on any particular seat. I have a bad back so I’ll have to choose carefully. Biggest problem is trying them out. I’m in Northern Ireland and they’re few and far between to be blagging a sit in some else’s to try out for size. I’m only considering fixed buckets as I read ela was fit to make rails to slide far enough for rear access which is crucial for me as I’ve kids.

Are the design 911 seats not about £450 plus vat each?
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Last edited by NedHan79 on Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Dammit
Indianapolis


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 2385



PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went for the Recaro SPG as a place right next to my gym had them available for a demo-sit, as it were, alongside the version for a slightly larger framed driver. Just as you, I didn't want to spend money on something that I might not fit into.

I guess you could order and then ship back but that strikes me as a pain - speak to local Porsche clubs and see if someone has the seat you are considering maybe?
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NedHan79
Hockenheim


Joined: 08 Nov 2018
Posts: 654



PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe but I’m a long way off seat choice. I’m in a bit of a restoration and paint will need to be paid for first. Even that won’t be until we’ll into next year.
Progress is good though and I just want to keep an eye on where I’m going. I love the look of the gt3 seats but I need to keep an eye on the bank balance. My whole ethos with this car is to build it on a budget, doin almost everything myself, even hopefully a lot of the paint prep.

It won’t be the best 911 in the world but it will be mine and any short comings in the work will be my own. I’ve already decided that I don’t need the best paint job ever as I want to use this without panicking about stone chips. Been there and done that.

This one has to be used
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NedHan79
Hockenheim


Joined: 08 Nov 2018
Posts: 654



PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It’s worth mentioning that I have sports seats that I could sell to go towards the cost. Not mint but probably similar condition to the photo. Black leather.

What’s the going rate for these?
I see them on eBay but I think some of those guys a funding a very big drug habit on their prices Floor
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Martin996RSR
Nürburgring


Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Posts: 419



PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ned,
I've done most of the things that you've done plus a few of the things you propose and I can say that it does make a real difference. My only caveat is that you need to be a reasonable driver to be able to appreciate that difference. A lot of people on here don't get the fact that the improvement comes from the sum of incremental gains rather than from just doing one particular thing.

I also have a similar mission to you, in that I have kids and need the rear seats to be accessible and functional. In essence though - go for it - it's a much better car when it's lighter. It feels far more agile, - it's not all about power to weight ratio, it's the fact that it will change direction quicker and stop quicker too, which adds up to a much more fun driving experience.

Stuff to do..
1. Lose the spare wheel and tool kit. If you must, take a compressor and a can of gunk, and your towing eye.
2. Don't remove your front impact bar, as the towing eye screws into this. If you can make other provisions then great, otherwise hang onto it. It's not that heavy anyway. Do remove the rear one.
3. Any weight lost from the rear of the car will be of greater benefit to the handling balance than weight lost from the front, so the lighter cats/exhaust and wiper delete are all steps in the right direction.
4. Lightweight battery - I went for the same battery as ELA but found that because the car lived outside, the battery got too cold to start the car on winter mornings for the school run. The lithium cells in the battery need to be above about 6 degrees C to give enough oomph to start the car. You can warm up the battery by running some electrical devices such as the lights and radio, and then turn them off again before attempting a start. This worked for me many times, but it was also frequently a gamble as you could easily drain too much juice out of the battery when warming it up and then not be able to start anyway. I have an Odyssey PC680 on the bench which is about to go into my aeroplane, and I might try it in the car to see how it goes.
5. LWFW - ELA reckons this is the single biggest game changer of the character of the car. I don't have one yet, but I probably will go for one at my next clutch change. The centre plate needs to be a sprung one from a 993. The cheapest way to get one is to buy an old worn out one and get new friction surfaces riveted on. I found a place in Bordon, Hampshire that would do it for £90 and give me any friction coefficient they had to choose from.
6. Wheels - I went from Sport Design GT3 wheels to 993 10-spokes as they were supposed to be the lightest OEM wheel, but the difference in the driving experience was really very minor, so perhaps hold off on wheels until other gains have been realised. The weight difference was minor and most of that difference seemed to come from the tyres rather than the rims.
7. Roof - The non sunroof steel roof weighs 7KG and costs about £400, the sunroof version with all the sunroof gubbins is somewhere around 20KG, and a carbon roof costs £1000, and weighs 3KG. When I do my roof, I'll be going for a steel panel. If you go for a composite roof, don't take any cr@p from cretins who think a bonded in composite panel represents a weak link in the car and will fall off in a crash or make the car less rigid. It makes the car more rigid.
8. Radiators - remove one of the fans. The comment earlier about it not being a Mezger/GT3 and therefore the mod not applying doesn't hold water. Heat production is proportional to HP production. A Mezger producing 400HP has a 33% greater heat output than an M96 at 300HP, so has a 33% stronger argument for having fans on both radiators(yeah, yeah, I know there's a centre one too). You can easily lose one of the fans. I took off the RHS one in the pursuit of better side to side weight distribution. I have an LTT and the temperature rarely goes above 81. I would only put the fan back on if I was expecting to be regularly stuck in very bad traffic on very hot days.
9. Washer bottle - It's pretty big -run down the contents until the low washer bottle light comes on the top up just enough to put the light out.
10. Take out any floor mats. They weigh a fair bit.
 
  
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NedHan79
Hockenheim


Joined: 08 Nov 2018
Posts: 654



PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Martin, that’s some list. I’m on for most of it but I’ve no intention of touching the roof. The air cons going so I want the sun roof as I always use it, and besides, it’s just not in the budget even though I am going for a coat of paint.

On the flywheel. I bought a sachs clutch a while ago to be fitted when I get that far in the build. Can I not use it? I was under the impression it’ll fit straight onto a lwfw.

I’m interested in the battery as I’ll definitely do something here. What battery do you have in atm? Mines purely a toy, garaged and on trickle charge if needs be.

Sorry, I can’t really think straight atm as I’ve been up all all night with the birth of my new baby girl.
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NedHan79
Hockenheim


Joined: 08 Nov 2018
Posts: 654



PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just googling my current battery weight, apparently it’s 22.5kg Surprised
A drop to 7kg for an odessey would be a good start.

The radiator fan delete is on the cards as well Thumb
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Martin996RSR
Nürburgring


Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Posts: 419



PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats on your new daughter!!!

I currently use a normal car battery, though slightly smaller than std spec (about 60ah rather than 70ah). If you're feeling flush you might consider trying two of the lithium batteries together. They weigh next to nothing and two might actually make it reliable and still be a good deal lighter than a PC680.. I'll let you know how I get on with the PC680, I'm not sure it has the capacity to do the job, however my plane has a six litre engine and I've been told the PC680 will spin it like a top by other owners.

I'm not sure of the precise reason for needing a sprung centre plate, but you're losing the damping/springing that the dual mass FW provides, so that's probably why. You'd probably get increased wear or driveline shunt if you went with a solid centre plate. I believe you're fine to use whatever cover plate you got with your Sachs clutch kit.
 
  
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crash7
Hockenheim


Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 678



PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin996RSR wrote:
Hi Ned,

8. Radiators - remove one of the fans. The comment earlier about it not being a Mezger/GT3 and therefore the mod not applying doesn't hold water. Heat production is proportional to HP production. A Mezger producing 400HP has a 33% greater heat output than an M96 at 300HP, so has a 33% stronger argument for having fans on both radiators(yeah, yeah, I know there's a centre one too). You can easily lose one of the fans. I took off the RHS one in the pursuit of better side to side weight distribution. I have an LTT and the temperature rarely goes above 81. I would only put the fan back on if I was expecting to be regularly stuck in very bad traffic on very hot days..


You seem to be missing the point, how often have you heard of cracked heads on a Mezger? - While on a 3.4 M96 its common place, controlling of the coolant temp on these engines is critical, hence the exceptance of the addition of a LTT being worthwhile, removing a rad fan on a daily driver to save circa 4kg is madness IMHO.
 
  
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NedHan79
Hockenheim


Joined: 08 Nov 2018
Posts: 654



PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just googling my current battery weight, apparently it’s 22.5kg Surprised
A drop to 7kg for an odessey would be a good start.

The radiator fan delete is on the cards as well Thumb
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Martin996RSR
Nürburgring


Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Posts: 419



PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True madness lies in declaring facts without empirical evidence to back up assertions. If you've already tried removing a fan and found your cooling to be inadequate then you were either in a traffic jam in a heat wave, or your rads are clogged with silt and bunged up with leaves. However, if you've never tried removing a rad fan then how could you possibly know?

I've had only one rad for over six months and have seen no downside so far. It's only madness if there is evidence that it causes the coolant temp to rise beyond acceptable limits. I totally accept that inadequate cooling will damage the engine, but the point is that removing one rad fan does not cause unacceptably elevated coolant temperatures.
 
  
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NedHan79
Hockenheim


Joined: 08 Nov 2018
Posts: 654



PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to admit I’m with Martin on this one. I’ve never noticed my fans on and I’ll also be ditching the air con condensers so air flows gona be up. Also the ltt will be going in with a new water pump
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crash7
Hockenheim


Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 678



PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I run a centre rad with a GT2 chimney and Cup front bumper vent, LTT and the two standard rad’s with one of the a/c condensers removed to accommodate better flow, rad cowls have been removed to elevate air stacking, inner arch liners modified.

In addition an FVD motorsport sump that gives an extra 0.6L of oil and is finned to improve air flow over its exterior. – Secondary air pump has been removed to improve airflow around the engine bay, hydraulic engine mounted power steering pump has been replaced with a frunk mounted 997 Cup item, which again allows more airflow in the engine bay and removes the heat the pump produced.

With all of the above, when inevitably stuck on the M25 on my way back from Brands, the fans regularly kick in and I see temperatures significantly higher than your quoted 81. – In fact I see higher temperatures when stuck in traffic than I do when tracking the car.

Ohh and did I forget to mention that I have indeed removed, and subsequentially, refitted said rad fan! – its MADNESS!! But each to their own.
 
  
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NedHan79
Hockenheim


Joined: 08 Nov 2018
Posts: 654



PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya have a fair point. Experience is always good.

On the frunk mounted ps pump. Is it an Opel pump? I’ve always been keen to know more. Do you by any chance have the air con deleted? Is there an off the shelf belt anywhere for deleting ps pump and air con pump?
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