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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7593
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im sorry young man .. i was a bit worried about this hence i asked if you can still get all gears ..

My hunch is the ball bearing has dropped out , spring / slider will still be there though .

the ball bearing is what locks the shifter rod in place , with out this then it will just be loose .

At a guess if you drain the oil it might come out .. or it will be in the bottom part of the casing ..

For me .. i would have a telescopic magnet .. bend it and try and fish around through the drain bung to see if you can get it .

On the off chance you can .. remove the bung again .. use same magnet and pull out the slider / spring ...

Axle grease to hold the ball bearing on these parts then shove it home as fast as possible ...

best info i can give in the situation and also i have limited experience on gearboxes im afraid .

Either way .. its best not to start the car atm i feel .. i'm unsure what might happen .
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Grey996
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Posts: 346
Location: Sheffield


PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks DeMort, I really appreciate your reply.

What do you think about the GT3 pic I posted, obviously mine isn’t the same box but I couldn’t see anything that looked like a slider or spring in mine.

That aside, I’m happy to drain the box to find the ball but I don’t suppose you know what size the ball is then I can try fitting a new one. I have driven the car today ( ironically to pick up a gearbox for another car!) only about five miles but apart from the sloppy reverse/first the gears were fine, no crunching or funny noises.

If it looks like it is the ball that’s dropped, is that this worse thing over with so then do you think I’ve nothing to loose taking the plug out again?

Last question! I’m not sure of how the mechanism works but will it matter what gear or neutral I’m in before I remove the plug?

Thanks again all

Simon
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8507
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have my detent assembly on the bench at the moment but haven't been to the garage for a few days. I will show you how its assembled over the weekend. But I definitely didn't have a Octagon headed plug to remove, I assume they changed it for the 3.6?

EDIT to say, my plug also didn't have the pin sticking out of it and is the same as in deMorts diagram

There should be a magnet in the base of the gearbox just to the side of the drain plug, you may be able to feel the bearing (if there is one) with your finger in and pointing towards the engine?
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Grey996
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Posts: 346
Location: Sheffield


PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks infrasilver that would be great.

I’m going to pop into my OPC in a bit to see if they have the tool and also if they know the size of the ball and can offer any advice.
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Mac996t
Montreal


Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 515


2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dfgfddc
 



996 na box5.jpg
 Description:
porsche pet
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996 na box5.jpg


  
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Mac996t
Montreal


Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 515


2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pic above is from Porsche PET for the na cars, it shows a very similar arrangement to the pic for the gt3, I was thinking it was a detent under the plug as that is most common ,in fact the hexagon headed plugs nearby are the detents, they normally have a spring and ball. The plug you’ve removed does seem to be just a pin to hold lever no 9

The Pet doesn’t show or list the plug, I think it comes with the casing(part 1), also there is very little about it on the net because it doesn’t need to be remove to strip the box, where as the other detents do

Lever no 9 is responsible for making the lever spring back to the center if you move it side to side, and this is what you’ve lost which is a bad sign.

If it has moved position and did drop down when the plug was out then the only way to sort would be to take the box apart !

However it does look like the end of the lever was still there, if that’s the case then why is it not working properly?

One thing I did think of is did the plug have a sealing washer under and if so is it still there? If not then maybe the plug has clamped onto the lever inside.it would be worth undoing the plug half a turn and see if the centring action comes back

It’s a shame there are no pics I can find on the net to show how the pin on the plug engages into the lever, then you could tell if what you are seeing when you look down the hole is the end of the lever or not, as it’s possible there is another part such as a sleeve which holds the lever, and the pin in the plug holds the sleeve, there’s loads of pics of the rest of the internals , searching for the part no of the lever doesn’t help either as that doesn’t bring up any decent pics

It’s amazing that there is so little info on this, it an easy mistake to make?!

I have found some other useful pics but my computer keeps crashing if I try and post them
Ps the plug is in the hole above the hole that lever 5 fit into
 
  
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Mac996t
Montreal


Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 515


2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More pics

Also if the lever has dropped down then the worry is it may get caught in the cogs, it does look like theres space for it but I wouldn’t want to drive it until I knew for sure

Mac
 



103CF946-DAE6-48A8-846A-DCE1754441E5.jpeg
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Plug with pin, no spring and ball
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561994AA-B78A-4203-8A9A-00ADE3A3C2A9.jpeg
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Plug
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25D3A645-EC99-4902-9B31-CA4427958438.jpeg
 Description:
Can see plug lever and spring above
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BBBBEE3B-1F9A-4C4E-84F6-E488CD402111.jpeg
 Description:
From boxter but almost identical
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BBBBEE3B-1F9A-4C4E-84F6-E488CD402111.jpeg


  
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8507
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't do anything with your gearbox until I can upload what I have. The end of the plug is just a pivot point for the internal selector arm. Hard to explain but the reason you cant get it back in any further is because the point on the plug is now pressing on the pivot arm rather than through the hole. Nothing has fallen into the gearbox.

There is a spring pushing the pivot arm out of line so it'll need to be lined up (somehow) before you put the plug back in. There may be a chance moving the selector will put it in a better position, this will be trial and error but may save stripping the gearbox.
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Last edited by infrasilver on Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Grey996
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Posts: 346
Location: Sheffield


PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks both, that’s a massive help.

I forgot the parts dept shuts at 1 and as I got there at 10 past I wasn’t able to speak to anyone so I won’t be doing anything until I’ve got the tool and a new plug.
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8507
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So looking at this working I can see the pin on the end has let the pivot arm come loose. I can't be certain how far its moved but I'm sort of hoping you have held it in place with the end of the plug and that it hasn't moved further by driving the car.

This is the end of the pin on the plug.



The spring put forward pressure on the lever arm and I'm hoping the bottom hasn't fully come out of the slot it sits in with the plugs pin?



This is what the spring sits against, unfortunately it's a plug but not threaded as far as I can see. Could this be removed to take the pressure off the lever arm and replaced with a plug of the same size?



And a video explanation of the workings.


Open Youtube Page


Your next step is to determine if the lever arm is still there and can you get it with a number 1 screwdriver, just to lever it back any. This won't solve the problem but it will help knowing it hasn't gone walkies.

If it is there or there abouts my next step would be to drill a hole between the lever pivot and the mechanism, probably around 10mm and see if I can lever the arm back in to line so the plug can slide back in. IF this worked I would tap a thread in the 10mm hole and plug it with a sealed grub screw or similar.
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Last edited by infrasilver on Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Mac996t
Montreal


Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 515


2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We both posted at the same time!

I’ve been looking at that pic you posted looking into the hole and the more I look at it the more it looks like the bit you can see down the hole is the rear of the casting and not the lever itself.

Have you any other pics looking down the hole?

Hope I’m wrong about that

If the lever has moved hopefully it’s still in roughly the correct place (maybe this is why the plug is tight )and you might be able to get it back into the right place either by fishing it back with some wire or carefully moving the cable linkage and see what happens. This may however make it fall down but because you’ve already driven the car I think this would already have happened if it was going too!!

Hopefully Infrasilver can post some pics which will reveal all

Mac
 
  
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8507
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Typing at the same time. Thumb
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Mac996t
Montreal


Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 515


2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Infra could you take the plug out of yours and see if the lever stays put or springs off somewhere ?

Also is there a sealing washer under the plug?

Ps good find with that vid! Just realised you made that vid Cool Cool

Last edited by Mac996t on Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:37 pm; edited 2 times in total
 
  
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8507
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac996t wrote:
Infra could you take the plug out of yours and see if the lever stays put or springs off somewhere ?

Also is there a sealing washer under the plug?


I was going to have a go today but without the correct tool I didn't want to destroy it, I did think a set of Stilton's may get it loose so could have a go at that tomorrow.
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Grey996
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Posts: 346
Location: Sheffield


PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys are amazing, so helpful. I’m out at the moment but will have a proper read later and get my head around things.

Thanks again
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7593
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the one hand im glad im wrong , on the other it does seem like this will be difficult .

The other guys here are far better suited and know far more than i do to help out when it comes to gearbox faults on these .. my info is very limited im afraid as this is not something i really do at work .

I'll leave you in their very capable hands .. fingers crossed for you .
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My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target .

Thank you all so Very much .

She's not going until july 2020 though .



Mechanic

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Now At An Indy.
 
  
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Grey996
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Posts: 346
Location: Sheffield


PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all,

When I take the plug out again would I be better in a certain gear. I’m pretty sure I was in reverse when it came out first but would I be best in neutral for less pressure on the spring? [/img]
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
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Joined: 04 Oct 2010
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Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say Neutral, less pressure as you say, seems off cam more.
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kurlykris
Magny-Cours


Joined: 30 Jun 2014
Posts: 2576
Location: Warwickshire


PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I reckon you will get that pivot pin back in there, would be handy to have a look down the hole first though if you have an endoscope.
Take the pin out, nice big fat ( but smaller than the pin diameter ) phillips screwdriver ( as it is round and pointed ), then wriggle the selector shaft ( part no 5 in the drawing above ) as you get the screwdriver all the way in through the hole in the selector fork and into the aluminium casting hole, then try and hold the selector shaft on the outside and try to take the pressure off the screwdriver, if you can do that then screw your new pin/bung in.

I reckon the fork can only drop down at the pivot end by a few millimetres and will be resting on the inside of the casting radius (red ) so turning the selector shaft in the direction of the green arrow should allow you to pop the pin back in after a bit of wriggling with the screwdriver Grin


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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
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Joined: 04 Oct 2010
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Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An endoscope is a good idea.
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