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Toml
Trainee


Joined: 05 Mar 2016
Posts: 63
Location: Cambridge


PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dammit wrote:
Toml wrote:
Any idea what suspension it is sitting on?


Eurocup. Ride, on my short journey, was very good.

Oh that's a shame. With the colour and shape of that top mount I was thinking a set of Intrax might have been lurking there.
 
  
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Kryton
Nürburgring


Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 410



PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good for you Dammit for starting what could be a very interesting thread

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Dammit
Indianapolis


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 2391



PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^Afraid not. Springs were softer (or the damping I suppose) than my cabs Ohlins.
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My 996, AKA Project Ridiculous
 
  
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Kingb4
Nürburgring


Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Posts: 385
Location: Beds/Bucks


PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds an interesting potential project.

Whilst logic suggests starting with something entirely different (such as Caterham mentioned above). I can understand the desire to use the knowledge you have gained on the Cab to develop a track car.
I can also understand the satisfaction of getting the M96 engine to do things that many people have said it cant.

Would be a bit disingenuous of me not to point out that it sounds like a money-pit project. But I think you know that anyway. It will certainly be interesting to see what happens (assuming you proceed).

As an aside, I think there may be better 996 candidates out there. I suspect the dealer will have seen all the carbon and value the car accordingly, whereas its relatively worthless to you.
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2002 996.2 C2 Cabriolet
 
  
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NedHan79
Hockenheim


Joined: 08 Nov 2018
Posts: 679



PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buy it. Sell the carbon bits. Buy race car bits.

Job done
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Dammit
Indianapolis


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 2391



PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, I think it'd be more trouble than it's worth - the CF is lifting on most of the parts (apparently the carbon steering wheel was beyond saving hence the replacement), and I'd need to invest time into fixing them, and then I'd need to get a decent price for the parts so more time dealing with the sales process.

I think this car would suit someone with Marks attention to detail and painstaking approach to getting things 100% - the colour is great, the options rare, it could be brought back to being a really nice example, but it's a long, long way from being an acceptable car at the moment.

With a cheaper, more standard car I can, bluntly, list the entire interior at £0.99 start/collection only and not worry about it.

The cage is £1,925 plus VAT and is a big piece of work to install - it's welded into the chassis at a minimum of 16 points, and the pictures on the CC site show roof and both front and rear screens out during fitting. Unsure if that's unavoidable, and I'd be swapping the roof skin to a non-sunroof one anyway, but anyway it's going to be expensive and I'd rather focus more time on that side of things than sticking CF air vents back together and then answering a hundred "would u take £50 m8?" emails.
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coullstar
Albert Park


Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 1640
Location: Aberdeen/Torphins


PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In all honesty I don't think it sounds like a great base other than you could use some of the bits to sell.

Problem is 2nd hand parts don't fetch that much so unless you get it for a total bargain I would say it's not worth it.
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Osh
Sepang


Joined: 19 Nov 2012
Posts: 2994
Location: Bristol


PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a great idea.

Its something i'd like to have a go at "one day" in the future but i'd probably do it with a Cayman and strip absolutely everything out of it that wasn't needed...

If you do do this can you make it a continual thread as i'd love to follow...??


Thanks
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2004 C4S Cab manual - looks the bollox...
 
  
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MaxA
Albert Park


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 1672
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is not a bad idea, but I'd start with a different car as a base.

It would need a decent engine and gearbox, be uncrashed, and be mechanically sound, but it could be cosmetically scruffy and a wierd colour as 'becauseracecar' - you're going to strip it and cage it, not polish it and take it to shows.

You don't need to pay for good paint and cosmetic tat that you're only going to bin.

Do you have a weight target?
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Dammit
Indianapolis


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 2391



PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The £9.5k XAA C4 in Autotrader appears to have sold, so if anyone spots an unmolested aero-C4 for £not-much please let me know.

Weight- not sure what a reasonable target is tbh, I’ll lose a lot by binning the entire interior, but then adding back in a linear kilometre of T45 in the cage is going to add quite a bit back I’d think.

Losing the front drive gubbins and the sunroof would drop more, but it’s an unknown for me where we’d end up.

If we have to pull the screens to get the cage in then I’d replace the side windows and rear screen with Lexan, the front I’d keep glass.

=If find the right car and Because Racecar it I’ll let everyone know where we end up.

I’ll also try to keep it below 98dB so it can run on any track day.
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 7333
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would you plan to mid the engine at all, to put up with the rigours of regular track work?
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"911- the guilt-free supercar"

Current: 2003 C4S Coupe, seal/black

Ex: '02 C4S Coupe, '96 993 Targa, '88 Carrera Sport Coupe
 
  
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Dammit
Indianapolis


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 2391



PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ultimately, yes- probably significantly.

Initially, no- just the oil system.

If I go ahead with this the goal would be a “what if”, basically an M96 Cup car, so “what if Porsche never used the Mezger”, so it’ll get the upgrades that we’ve been working on for the other engines.

The advantage with this car is all the driveability compromises that the road cars have go out the window.
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bakerboy4s
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 06 Jun 2015
Posts: 269
Location: Staffordshire


PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
Strasse in Leeds were selling a 996 race car recently for decent money, would that not be an easier option, or is building and preparing part of the exercise to Our?
 
  
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Dammit
Indianapolis


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 2391



PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can only see a Boxster S on their site, so I imagine the 996 must have sold.
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UncleP
Silverstone


Joined: 27 Feb 2019
Posts: 138



PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some very basic thing I've learned while building track cars.

Buy mechanically sound but cheap
You will effectively completely ruin the resale value of most cars as soon as you rip out the interior. So it's best to view the car as disposable and realise the value will be in the bits you add.

Expensive body and trim is hassle
Aero kits and such just mean more hassle and expense when you have that off and go skidding across the lawn cracking your bumper in half on the curb. Easily available parts are better or fibreglass parts are easier to patch.

If you can buy it already done... you should
There's a lot of fun in building your own but there's also a lot of time, money and pain to be saved by buying something already done or an unfinished project (there are loads of them lurking in garages).
 
  
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 7333
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UncleP wrote:
Some very basic thing I've learned while building track cars.

Buy mechanically sound but cheap
You will effectively completely ruin the resale value of most cars as soon as you rip out the interior. So it's best to view the car as disposable and realise the value will be in the bits you add.

Expensive body and trim is hassle
Aero kits and such just mean more hassle and expense when you have that off and go skidding across the lawn cracking your bumper in half on the curb. Easily available parts are better or fibreglass parts are easier to patch.

If you can buy it already done... you should
There's a lot of fun in building your own but there's also a lot of time, money and pain to be saved by buying something already done or an unfinished project (there are loads of them lurking in garages).


Maybe some mission-creep, but Very Happy
https://www.paragongb.com/343/porsche-for-sale/porsche-carrera-2-race-car-for-sale-r170jpn
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"911- the guilt-free supercar"

Current: 2003 C4S Coupe, seal/black

Ex: '02 C4S Coupe, '96 993 Targa, '88 Carrera Sport Coupe
 
  
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77szymon
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 14 Mar 2018
Posts: 319
Location: UK

2003 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

check copart lot number: 53507159 for project perfect,
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2003 Porsche 911 996 c4s
1988 BMW 635csi Highline - waiting for full restoration
1999 BMW e36 328i Cabrio - still not finished project.....
2011 Mercedes S350L - SOLD
2004 Audi a2 1.4 tdi - I can't stress enough how good these cars are
̶2̶0̶1̶2̶ ̶M̶e̶r̶c̶e̶d̶e̶s̶ ̶C̶2̶2̶0̶ ̶c̶d̶i̶ ̶E̶s̶t̶a̶t̶e̶ ̶A̶M̶G̶ ̶S̶p̶o̶r̶t̶ ̶P̶l̶u̶s̶ ̶P̶a̶c̶k̶ ̶-̶ ̶w̶i̶f̶e̶
 
  
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Marky911
Magny-Cours


Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 2664



PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uncle P speaks sense Neil.

I know you love a project but there’s absolutely no point in getting romantic and misty eyed about building a 996 track car.

You’ll spend months and months and tens of thousands of pounds “creating” something only to have matey boy in his Civic type R blitz you on your first track day. Grin

I got quite heavily into trackdays a while back ending up in a bike engined race car amongst other things, but when I look back, the most fun I had was in my first track hack a 306GTi6 with some choice mods. My mates race and they said from the start just buy something already done and get out there. Best bit of advice I’ve taken.

It’s better to be the underdog too. If you pull up in a 911 you’re expected to be fast. Take a Clio or something and just do your own thing. Plus there’s something very satisfying about hassling much faster more expensive machinery through the bends.

As I’ve said I’d just stick to the cab project which will be fine for a dozen days per year or buy something already done and get on with enjoying it. You have the Ohlins to wind the stiffness up and down at the drop of a hat.

I’m a fair weather friend so do track days from May until September. 6 months. Even doing 2 per month takes up a fair bit of time, tweaking, prepping and repairing. Anymore and it’s like a full time job. Again that’s only 12 days per year of use though. Where does the car stay for the other 353 days.

So also be mindful of how much actual driving you’ll get to do. Track cars are like motorbikes. They’re a great idea on paper but more often than not they become big paperweights. Then you’ve got the storage for the car, trailer, spare wheels and tyres etc.

I’m all for trackdays, but not for wasting time trying to reinvent the wheel with regards to cars to do them with.
If you’d known at the start (and I know I sound like a broken record), you could have bought a GT3 and a cheap 986 Boxster for your roof down fix. You can tinker with both like you have with the cab and they’ll retain a lot more value.
There’s a reason lots of people choose GT3s. Wink

Anyway I sound like a wet blanket. I do love seeing your commitment to the cause and attention to detail, but as I said in my first post, sometimes it’s better to take a step back and weigh up the old “efforts vs results” argument. Thumb
 
  
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Martin996RSR
Nürburgring


Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Posts: 427



PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the flip-side, if you buy a car that's already been prepped, you're likely to be buying an engine that's already had its main bearings worn through.

At least you'll have something to spend what you saved by buying someone else's project on.
 
  
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NedHan79
Hockenheim


Joined: 08 Nov 2018
Posts: 679



PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your anything like me, you’ll be buying with your budget and sweat about the rest later Floor
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