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ballcock
Sepang


Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 2997
Location: Dublin

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:50 pm    Post subject: Rebuild ...Which IMS Bearing to get?? Reply with quote

Sorry, I HATE using those three letters on Porsche forums!
.. and yes I’ve done a search and haven’t found an answer.

I’m looking for the best solution when replacing my early 3.4 IMS bearing. Unfortunately the Hartech late 997 bearing is not available.

The other option seems to be the below.

https://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/986M/POR_986M_UPG996_pg2.htm

Are there any other options available these days?


Thanks!
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'96 Iris C2 vario manual coupe, Koni FZD's/M033's RSR's and HID's.
‘98 Ocean blue 996 C2 Tip pressed into daily service.

Ex '83 W460 LWB G Wagen updated with OM602 engine and 6 speed 'box
Ex. '99 996 C2 manual coupe.
 
  
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kas750
Shanghai


Joined: 31 Mar 2013
Posts: 4593
Location: Chorley lancashire

2006 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the bearing worn?
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
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Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17144
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can Hartech not offer any other solutions. I know they do various options when it comes to the bearing.

If the original is fine I'd pop the seals off and put that back in.
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Alex
Le Mans
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Joined: 06 Mar 2014
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Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd also contact Porsche and see if the offer a full assembly solution.
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Alex
Le Mans
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Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17144
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rose passion do the full assembly for just over 800 sheets:

https://www.rosepassion.com/en/diagrams-porsche-996-1998-eu-996-carrera-2-coupe-automatic-gearbox/engine-and-fuel-feed-36/camshaft-timing-chains-chain-idler-hydraulic-valve-lifter-2415/intermediate-shaft-56917
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8507
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally if the engine was apart I would want to change the bearing as you do, I don't like the look of the single row bearing into the double housing from Pelican though.

Wasn't there someone saying they can get the dual row bearing recently?

What is Hartech's situation with regard to the dual row bearing replacement?
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Alex
Le Mans
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Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17144
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone was saying they were sourcing an alternative to the dual row and wanted to know the dimensions. Think they were on about fitting a ceramic one.

Hartech did have modified sprockets that fit the 3.4 but house a different size bearing. Possible they don't have them in stock anymore.

Personally I'd be seeing if I could do something similar to Hartech and get my original shaft/sprocket modified to accommodate something bigger / stronger.
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
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Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8507
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the set up I was thinking of, I think you also need the later crankshaft then upgrade to the hyvo chain with matching IMS too but a crankshaft is a rare thing.

EDIT, unless they can modify a hyvo IMS to twin chain IMS, IIRC they are only interference fit on the end of the IMS?
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Alex
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Posts: 17144
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know Hartech used to get sprockets made that were the 3.4 style but with a different counter bore to suit a different IMS bearing. I can only guess they're out of stock or have stopped offering this solution. Dont know
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Alex
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Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17144
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here you go, page 70 onwards:

https://www.hartech.org/images/downloads/Hartech%20Engine%20Guide%20(interim).pdf
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ballcock
Sepang


Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 2997
Location: Dublin

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Hartech one isnt available right now and yes they modify to suit the 3.4 engine. It’s a great pity as this would be the very best option I feel.

There are some available on Design 911 as well but I’m struggling with my limited tech knowledge to understand why they are so much more expensive.
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'96 Iris C2 vario manual coupe, Koni FZD's/M033's RSR's and HID's.
‘98 Ocean blue 996 C2 Tip pressed into daily service.

Ex '83 W460 LWB G Wagen updated with OM602 engine and 6 speed 'box
Ex. '99 996 C2 manual coupe.
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
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Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17144
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because design911 are a rip off. They're usually dearer than OPC.

I'd deffo be going down the route of the Hartech style even if it meant making one myself (but I'm lucky that I'm able to do that).
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ballcock
Sepang


Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 2997
Location: Dublin

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You’re in a unique position then Alex.
I’ll have to be happy with another’s handy work!

Is the rose passion part single or dual bearing, can one tell from the pics?

There’s also this one from LN .. pricey!

https://lnengineering.com/products/ims-bearing-kits-for-porsche-m96-97-engines/dual-row-ims-retrofit-kit-for-my97-01.html
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'96 Iris C2 vario manual coupe, Koni FZD's/M033's RSR's and HID's.
‘98 Ocean blue 996 C2 Tip pressed into daily service.

Ex '83 W460 LWB G Wagen updated with OM602 engine and 6 speed 'box
Ex. '99 996 C2 manual coupe.
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17144
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rose passion one will most likely be whatever Porsche supply to fit a 3.4 engine.
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911munKy
Montreal


Joined: 26 Nov 2014
Posts: 566



PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about this?

https://www.onlinebearings.co.uk/3204-ATN9C3-SKF-Double-Row-Angular-Contact-Ball-Bearing-Polyamide-Cage.html
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911munKy
Montreal


Joined: 26 Nov 2014
Posts: 566



PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about this?

https://www.onlinebearings.co.uk/3204-ATN9C3-SKF-Double-Row-Angular-Contact-Ball-Bearing-Polyamide-Cage.html
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Alex
Le Mans
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Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17144
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dimensions on the original bearing are 20 47 14 (doable with some slight mods). Would be good to see the load rating of the one above.
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911munKy
Montreal


Joined: 26 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here you go Alex, interested to hear your thoughts...

https://shop.eriks.co.uk/en/bearings-ball-bearings-angular-contact-ball-bearings/double-row-angular-contact-bearing-synthetic-cage-sealed-3204-a-2ztn9-mt33-3204zztn9-skf/
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Alex
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Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17144
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd give you them if I had the data for other IMS bearings to hand Grin

I wouldn't put anything weaker than the original in but if it's a higher load rating then that'd be fine.
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bazhart
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Joined: 20 May 2009
Posts: 988
Location: Bolton Lancashire


PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To find out more about the whole IMS situation you can request our technical report on the 4 main faults with this engine range from admin@hartech.org (as it is one of them).

It is however a detailed and lengthy read - be warned.

Briefly the original bearing was marginally too small and the shield that restricted oil flow and "running in debris outwash" caused some to fail early. Once the shield had worn a bit some debris could escape and some fresh oil enter and they then could last a very long time.

The loads from chain flap are both radial and longitudinal (and roller bearings do not have good longitudinal capabilities) while we have seen failures of all the other options of, ceramic bearings and other ball bearings (which usually last as long or longer than the original but are still vulnerable). A pressurised oil fed plain bearing would also be a good solution but expensive.

The larger ball bearing that replaced it has proven a great solution and we do make a new end gear/sprocket that incorporates this bearing and fit it to the old shafts for both roller chain earlier cranks and later Hivo cranks. It is however an expensive part to manufacture and fit (in relatively small quantities) and there is insufficient margin in it to then retail it (when it would be too expensive).

However we do make it available to our customers for engine repairs when it is incorporated as part of a larger job.

Baz
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