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Stoddy
Trainee


Joined: 13 Sep 2019
Posts: 72
Location: Wye Valley


PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:18 am    Post subject: Rebuild or replace? Reply with quote

I love my car, I really do. It’s a great place to be at the end of a long day or week. BUT, he’s now got a lot of miles on the clock, 169,000 will be the next big number to click over.
Now, do I stick with Henry and re build the engine and refresh the suspension etc, or, do I trade him in for a 997?
When I last sold a 911, it was about six months before the market exploded and the same car seemed to quadruple over night. (3.2 Carrera)
I don’t see that happening with a 2002 996 C2, but if it’s only worth seven or eight grand now, surely it will go up again? In which case am I going to regret selling him?
I do a fair few miles a year and he's my daily driver too. I could just moth ball? Wait for the market to swing up, or just sell.

I’ve driven a few 997’s but never lived with one. Are they as much of a drivers car? Are they suited to daily driving as much as my 996, more so perhaps?


Help! What should I do!?


Yours,

47 from Monmouth.




Stoddy.

Question
_________________
The world is flat
2002 996 C2
167, 700 grin miles.........thus far.

Restoring THE COLONEL, 1973 914.

X 944 S2 Cab (Miller)
X 3.2 Carrera (Gordon)
X 3.4 Cayman (George)
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 16111
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

996 values have already bounced back once. In 2013 all models were worth less than they are now. There will come a time when low mileage examples will become more sought after but I really can't see that happening with any 169k mile car.

As a daily driver you will find a 997 a nicer place to be. Whether that's worth the considerable 'cost to change' is up to you.
_________________
2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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Tourist
Newbie


Joined: 20 Apr 2019
Posts: 5
Location: South-East


PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally would keep the 996 unless it is uneconomical to repair/maintain.

The 996 and 986 have an amazing fixed ratio steering rack. I think it feels more analogue and raw than the 9x7 series.

The only 997 I'd consider is a GT3.
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2002 986.2 Boxster (sold)
 
  
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 7311
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’d go with a rolling refurb program for Henry.

A 997 will likely need work at some point plus the cost to change.

There is a satisfaction in my view from keeping a car long term and getting it just so. Even with some fairly pessimistic assumptions you will still be quads in vs changing cars every few years.
_________________
"911- the guilt-free supercar"

Current: 2003 C4S Coupe, seal/black

Ex: '02 C4S Coupe, '96 993 Targa, '88 Carrera Sport Coupe
 
  
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Stoddy
Trainee


Joined: 13 Sep 2019
Posts: 72
Location: Wye Valley


PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the comments, I guess there’s always that “new car” feeling that creeps in too! Having said that, the “New engine” feeling’s pretty cool too! Especially combined with a suspension refresh and body detail!!?? Maybe a bonnet wrap too..............
_________________
The world is flat
2002 996 C2
167, 700 grin miles.........thus far.

Restoring THE COLONEL, 1973 914.

X 944 S2 Cab (Miller)
X 3.2 Carrera (Gordon)
X 3.4 Cayman (George)
 
  
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cvega
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 25 Feb 2013
Posts: 288
Location: Cambridge


PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in a similar boat, 145k mile C2. I dont see myself parting with it to get a 997 for sure; not enough of an improvement/change to tempt me.
My car has gone through £9k of upgrades and maintenance in the last 3 years and we will continue (including a rebuild in the future)
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2003 996 C2 (Ohlins R&T suspension, Toyosport/Spyder exhaust)
 
  
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Hertsdriver
Nürburgring


Joined: 12 Nov 2018
Posts: 469
Location: Hertfordshire/London

2004 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tourist wrote:

The 996 and 986 have an amazing fixed ratio steering rack. I think it feels more analogue and raw than the 9x7 series.


The 997 has the exact same rack as a 996....
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Rhodris-dad
Hockenheim


Joined: 28 Nov 2013
Posts: 727
Location: RHYL

2015 Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a daily driver you will find a 997 a nicer place to be. Whether that's worth the considerable 'cost to change' is up to you.[/quote]

+1 Thumb

The DFI engine gives the 997 better performance and mpg.

If you were to buy, say a 10 year old car, you would have to make sure it has had a fair bit of money spent on maintenance/repairs, otherwise you could end up shelling out for the cost yourself added to the difference between the values of the 2 cars.

Ploughing money into your 996 is OK as long as you keep it for a few years.

I wouldn't bank on the values rising much, given the mileage unfortunately.
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2010 997 C4S PDK sold
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C4Silver
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 14 Aug 2019
Posts: 273



PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve known at least 6 people change from a 996 to a 997 !

Not one of them has ever looked back, The cabin is a much nicer place to be, I won’t mention the obvious positive, as for analogue and raw ?
It’s pretty much the same same car, it shares the the same steering rack ? By analogue I’m guessing you mean manual, no driver aids, no buttons on the steering wheel, not sure how Raw the 996 is......
 
  
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Stoddy
Trainee


Joined: 13 Sep 2019
Posts: 72
Location: Wye Valley


PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think my budget would be 25k ish, maybe a little more if senior management (the wife) will agree, so I’d expect some work needed for that money?
@C4silver, what’s the “obvious positive”?
Because mines a daily, I’m just worried that I’ll be constantly chasing my tail and fixing things as they fly past 200,000 miles and on, even after having the engine re built.
Having said that, I do love the 996 shape.

I think I’ll do a list of pros and cons either way, feel free to suggest!
Could be quite a good exercise?


Stoddy.
Dont know
_________________
The world is flat
2002 996 C2
167, 700 grin miles.........thus far.

Restoring THE COLONEL, 1973 914.

X 944 S2 Cab (Miller)
X 3.2 Carrera (Gordon)
X 3.4 Cayman (George)
 
  
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adamw
Estoril


Joined: 09 Jul 2009
Posts: 3907
Location: West Sussex

1998 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice choice to to have and I’ll be watching.

Think of it were me I’d be tempted to upgrade, renew and keep. Any 997 at 25k (ish) will almost certainly need some spends too and you’ve got history with Henry Grin

Great to hear of a 996 / m96 in daily use with this big mileage - respect.
Think that’s why maybe I’d look at refresh as you’ve come so far together worship Grin
_________________
98’ 996 C2 aero, Swartz Black, GT3 style fixed buckets, GT3 momo steering wheel, GT3 wheels, KW’s + lots more

EX : 02' 996 Turbo Coupe ( May 17 - Sept 19 )
EX : 95' 993 C4 Coupe ( Dec 10 - Oct 16 )
EX : 00' 996 C2 Cab ( Jul 09 - Oct 10 )
EX : 03' 986 Boxster S ( May 06 - Dec 08 )
 
  
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Tourist
Newbie


Joined: 20 Apr 2019
Posts: 5
Location: South-East


PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hertsdriver wrote:
Tourist wrote:

The 996 and 986 have an amazing fixed ratio steering rack. I think it feels more analogue and raw than the 9x7 series.


The 997 has the exact same rack as a 996....


The 997/987 has a variable ratio rack, it's not the same. IME, it feels dead near the centre compared to the 996/986.
_________________
2009 987.2 Cayman S
2002 986.2 Boxster (sold)
 
  
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Stoddy
Trainee


Joined: 13 Sep 2019
Posts: 72
Location: Wye Valley


PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is something very warming about having history with a car and like you say, there’s bound to be spends on top of a 25k purchase anyway.

Interesting comment about the steering on the 997, I haven’t driven them enough to compare.


Stoddy Cool
_________________
The world is flat
2002 996 C2
167, 700 grin miles.........thus far.

Restoring THE COLONEL, 1973 914.

X 944 S2 Cab (Miller)
X 3.2 Carrera (Gordon)
X 3.4 Cayman (George)
 
  
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alfazagato
Trainee


Joined: 03 Jul 2017
Posts: 81



PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For my money, which it clearly isn't, keep your current 996 and do the necessary works as and when needed. It will become like a pair of old brogues which get re-soled and polished and much loved. I tend to keep my cars for 20 years.....but my shoes longer!

alfazagato
 
  
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Marky911
Magny-Cours


Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 2657



PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say change but that’s just me.

Cars wear out. Yes you can do a “Triggers Broom” on it, but to eliminate every bit of wear at those miles would cost tens of thousands.

I’m not against high mileage cars but I don’t see the point in trying to bring one back inline with a fresh one. Not when there are other options out there for the same cost.

My old Volvo estate daily just clicked over 200k last week. It still feels fine but there is a bit more play in things and a general softness to its feel compared to my dads 100k miler.
I’m happy keeping it as it’s free motoring but when the clutch or something big goes I’ll be swapping it. That’s life unfortunately, cars wear out.

Oh, and I’m not for one moment comparing your 996 to an old Volvo. Grin
But if it’s a mile muncher you need then I’d swap it for a fresher 911.

Just my 2p though. We all love our cars but sometimes you have to take a step back and be sensible.
Like you say you’ll get the new car buzz and the thrill of shopping for your next one if you change.
Oh and none of the headaches of working on rusty old parts etc.

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Stoddy
Trainee


Joined: 13 Sep 2019
Posts: 72
Location: Wye Valley


PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh blimey ‘O’ it’s not easy is it!?
Thanks so much for your thoughts, annoyingly, they all make sense!
To be honest, I’m leaning towards replacing but only for practical reasons, I find the 996 cabin really comfortable and I’ve got the car in fine fettle as I get any issues sorted sooner, rather than later. BUT finding the time to do these fettles is becoming an issue.
Maybe I should get a newer boxter for the mile munching, and keep Henry as a project car!?

Sh#t. That’s a whole different scenario.


Stoddy. Dont know
_________________
The world is flat
2002 996 C2
167, 700 grin miles.........thus far.

Restoring THE COLONEL, 1973 914.

X 944 S2 Cab (Miller)
X 3.2 Carrera (Gordon)
X 3.4 Cayman (George)
 
  
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cvega
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 25 Feb 2013
Posts: 288
Location: Cambridge


PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

exactly. keep the 996, you're only gonna lose money replacing it.
get another car for a project.... Wink
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2003 996 C2 (Ohlins R&T suspension, Toyosport/Spyder exhaust)
 
  
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fot0
Newbie


Joined: 03 Apr 2018
Posts: 28
Location: Thames Valley


PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in the rebuild camp. Driven a 997 to Le Mans and yes great car, cabin and torquey in the gears, which makes it lazy in my view as you can stay in 5th/6th all day. Also test drove a 992 C4, cabin even better and so responsive to the point it is too much power for British roads - need a track in the back yard to really appreciate its abilities. Got back in my 996 and the smile came back.
 
  
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Stoddy
Trainee


Joined: 13 Sep 2019
Posts: 72
Location: Wye Valley


PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is awesome stuff gents, does anyone know an approximate time scale for a full rebuild from someone like Hartec? Really appreciate the comments, sometimes it’s hard to see the bigger picture.


Stodd.
_________________
The world is flat
2002 996 C2
167, 700 grin miles.........thus far.

Restoring THE COLONEL, 1973 914.

X 944 S2 Cab (Miller)
X 3.2 Carrera (Gordon)
X 3.4 Cayman (George)
 
  
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Hertsdriver
Nürburgring


Joined: 12 Nov 2018
Posts: 469
Location: Hertfordshire/London

2004 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tourist wrote:
Hertsdriver wrote:
Tourist wrote:

The 996 and 986 have an amazing fixed ratio steering rack. I think it feels more analogue and raw than the 9x7 series.


The 997 has the exact same rack as a 996....


The 997/987 has a variable ratio rack, it's not the same. IME, it feels dead near the centre compared to the 996/986.


No, its the exact same rack, same part number - no difference between a 996 and 997 rack
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My 997.1 C2 ownership thread: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=134228
 
  
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