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TV8
Newbie


Joined: 08 Nov 2019
Posts: 43
Location: Bromley


PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:05 pm    Post subject: New owner and error codes already.... Reply with quote

Hello everyone, my 1st post here after picking up my new to me 996 Carrera 2 yr 2000 coupe last weekend.

It was a bit of an impulse swap for my TVR and now the fun begins!

On the drive home, the ABS Warning light came on and then on the next leg of the journey, that warning light was joined by the PSM warning light.

Very annoying and I have used it a couple of times since and the codes have not been there on start-up but both have come on within the 1st mile of driving.

Pluging in a code reader, I have error codes 4440 Steering angle sensor and also 5521 faulty data exchange.

A quick search on the various boards suggest that this could be a few things including brake switch and/or MAF connections, both of which I am going to try and look at over the weekend. It could also be harder to diagnose and I arranged for a post purchase check over in the next couple of weeks but would love the satisfaction of sorting this myself!

The Steering Angle sensor is the one that puzzles me though as I don't really understand what it does (apart from cause warning lights to come-on!)

I ask as on occasions driving home, I did think that the car had some tram lining on anything but smooth roads (I also had a base 987 Boxster for 3 years alongside the TVR) and on 17" wheels the steering on that was perfect. This could be tyres, my imagination, set-up (the car has had a lots of new bits on the front suspension), wider/larger wheels, different set-up and weight distribution to the Boxster or, dare I say it, the Steering angle sensor!

The car has had a recent diy head unit replacement and that doesn't look the neatest installation I have seen and one of the posts I read linked back to codes on the standard radio being required in the cars electrical plumbing.

Any advise or suggestions on how to proceed appreciated, so thanks in advance. I have the same user name on Pistonheads and Boxa.net and know how helpful forums such as this can be.

Graham
 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7593
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steering angle sensor is quite important .. it tells the car the angle of the steering .. PSM / traction control / abs relies on this .

You would clear the code then drive the car to see if the code comes back .. if it does then it leads toward the sensor being defective or a possible wiring fault with the sensor being the most obvious .

It can't check this system until the car is doing 6 mph or over so no fault until that is reached .

Actual values on a tester and move the wheel will also show if its working .

You can do a calibration on this but i suspect that will not help at all .

New car and a fault .. that strikes me as a possible reason it was sold .. sorry .
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She's not going until july 2020 though .



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fot0
Newbie


Joined: 03 Apr 2018
Posts: 35
Location: Thames Valley


PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fault code 4440 attached.

Fault code 5521Faulty data exchange
Diagnostic conditions•Engine running
•Fault is sent by the DME control module via the CAN
Possible cause of fault♦Fault in DME

I would check plugs and connections.
 



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TV8
Newbie


Joined: 08 Nov 2019
Posts: 43
Location: Bromley


PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fot0 wrote:
Fault code 4440 attached.

Fault code 5521Faulty data exchange
Diagnostic conditions•Engine running
•Fault is sent by the DME control module via the CAN
Possible cause of fault♦Fault in DME

I would check plugs and connections.


Thanks. What plugs and connections please?
 
  
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TV8
Newbie


Joined: 08 Nov 2019
Posts: 43
Location: Bromley


PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deMort wrote:
Steering angle sensor is quite important .. it tells the car the angle of the steering .. PSM / traction control / abs relies on this .

You would clear the code then drive the car to see if the code comes back .. if it does then it leads toward the sensor being defective or a possible wiring fault with the sensor being the most obvious .

It can't check this system until the car is doing 6 mph or over so no fault until that is reached .

Actual values on a tester and move the wheel will also show if its working .

You can do a calibration on this but i suspect that will not help at all .

New car and a fault .. that strikes me as a possible reason it was sold .. sorry .


I am going to visually inspect everything as a mic for a phone kit appears to have been routed nearby and also clear the fault code - I have a iCarsoft v2 so I think that can clear the code. After that, nineexcellence are going to give the car a look over and said the would look at the fault codes if still there!

Also, I am giving the previous owner the benefit of doubt about the fault but it doesn’t change anything as it’s my problem now!
 
  
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TV8
Newbie


Joined: 08 Nov 2019
Posts: 43
Location: Bromley


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went out in the car several times today and for 3 journeys, no warning lights then they came on, which was a bit annoying. Seems to reset on restart but the code 4440 is ever present with the code reader.

One thing I have noticed is that the volts are around 13 on the volt gauge and showing as 13.2 or 13.3 on the code reader to the ABS which seems low?

Would that cause any problem please?
 
  
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HSC911
Long Beach


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 6762
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome
 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7593
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The steering angle fault will occur with a flat or disconnected battery until the car is driven over 6 mph .. it's possible there is a charging fault or a low charge battery .. on cranking the voltage can drop low enough that it trips this fault .

13.2 is a little low if on idle with nothing switched on .. ie headlights .. you need to get a seperate voltmeter on the battery to test .. turn on headlights , main beam ,., heated seats .. blower fan on max then read it off .. if lower than say 13 volts then the alternator is very tired .. if 13.5 or higher then its fine .

I don't trust the cars voltmeter .. it's not that accurate .

It may be a steering angle sensor that needs replacing .. it may be wiring but a low voltage is the more common fault .

There is also a calibration that is done on this .. possible that needs doing if the geo has been altered and this sensor not calibrated ... done with a tester .
_________________
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My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target .

Thank you all so Very much .

She's not going until july 2020 though .



Mechanic

7pm - 9pm

Now At An Indy.
 
  
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TV8
Newbie


Joined: 08 Nov 2019
Posts: 43
Location: Bromley


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deMort wrote:
The steering angle fault will occur with a flat or disconnected battery until the car is driven over 6 mph .. it's possible there is a charging fault or a low charge battery .. on cranking the voltage can drop low enough that it trips this fault .

13.2 is a little low if on idle with nothing switched on .. ie headlights .. you need to get a seperate voltmeter on the battery to test .. turn on headlights , main beam ,., heated seats .. blower fan on max then read it off .. if lower than say 13 volts then the alternator is very tired .. if 13.5 or higher then its fine .

I don't trust the cars voltmeter .. it's not that accurate .

It may be a steering angle sensor that needs replacing .. it may be wiring but a low voltage is the more common fault .

There is also a calibration that is done on this .. possible that needs doing if the geo has been altered and this sensor not calibrated ... done with a tester .


Thanks for responding. I tried a cigarete lighter volt meter and saw similar numbers to the dash volt meter. With similar voltage levels on the code reader, I am inclined to look at the output of the alternator (which has to be easier to get to than on the Boxster!) and I am assuming that these cars don't leak volts and have dodgy earths like a TVR?

Also, when I look at when the fault has happened, it has been when the electrics have been loaded with lights and/or wipers. This morning was beautiful and sunny and no problem Question Question
 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7593
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok .. it does seem like a possible voltage fault ..

These cars dont suffer earth strap problems as such .. possible but unusual .. they do suffer from lead connections as the battery is at the front and the alternator is at the rear .. there is a connection on the gearbox that can corrode .

Off hand and i think your alternator might be tired .. not uncommon and a load test as i described above will point to that .

To test at the rear then if you have the battery connection o/s/r under a flap ( plastic box ) then you can test at that point to see if the voltage is higher .

if not it's a voltage drop test from alternator .. you need to get at the lead with a pierce probe into the alternator output wire .. pretty dam hard or at the gearbox connection .

I suspect atm .. it might need an alternator .. for now a voltmeter on the battery .. everything electrical turned on and let me know what it reads .
_________________
.
My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target .

Thank you all so Very much .

She's not going until july 2020 though .



Mechanic

7pm - 9pm

Now At An Indy.
 
  
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TV8
Newbie


Joined: 08 Nov 2019
Posts: 43
Location: Bromley


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will do DeMort - thank you.
 
  
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TV8
Newbie


Joined: 08 Nov 2019
Posts: 43
Location: Bromley


PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well another sunny day. Its going to be interesting next spring how much I miss a convertible..

I tested the battery before starting the car and 12.26 volts at the battery.

Switched on and volts jumped up to 14 without any real load. I drove and sure enough, just under a mile later, warning lights on whilst volts still at 14 - very annoying to say the least.

To complete the electrical testing (Assuming this isn't the trigger for the warning lights) With everything on the volts were down to 13.4-13.5 and seem to hold there. Not perfect but not a priority at the moment either.

However, the thing that stayed with me was that the warning lights have come on at exactly the same roundabout every time I have gone out, so I drove around the block to see if I instinctively covered the brake there and I do, so I am thinking/hoping it could be the brake switch?

Any thoughts if the brake light switch could be the issue please?
 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7593
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's nothing wrong with the charging system .. 13.5 is fine under a full load so you can rule that out .

The fault code says its the steering angle sensor .. the calibration of it or a wiring issue ..

Brake switches tend to give different codes i would have thought but they are pretty cheap so it's worth chucking one on perhaps .

A steering sensor Calibration is needed though if that doesn't fix it .. 5 mins with a tester is all it takes .
_________________
.
My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target .

Thank you all so Very much .

She's not going until july 2020 though .



Mechanic

7pm - 9pm

Now At An Indy.
 
  
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TV8
Newbie


Joined: 08 Nov 2019
Posts: 43
Location: Bromley


PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deMort wrote:
There's nothing wrong with the charging system .. 13.5 is fine under a full load so you can rule that out .

The fault code says its the steering angle sensor .. the calibration of it or a wiring issue ..

Brake switches tend to give different codes i would have thought but they are pretty cheap so it's worth chucking one on perhaps .

A steering sensor Calibration is needed though if that doesn't fix it .. 5 mins with a tester is all it takes .


Thanks deMort, I will get one this week and report back. I assume the recalibration needs a Special device?
 
  
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Griffter
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 22 May 2016
Posts: 368



PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pure guess work but it’s the ABS and PSM lights the come on? Only the error code points to the steering angle sensor?
So it seems to me that the car thinks it’s going round a corner when the steering wheel angle tells it otherwise (or vice versa).
So how does the car determine if it’s going round a corner? Presumably differential measurement at the ABS sensors either side.
I’d take a look at each of the ABS reluctor rings and sensors, check they’re clean, connected and as far as possible in good condition.
 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7593
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A perfectly logical and well thought out answer young man .. i swear you are after my job here Very Happy

joking aside it's a good point .. the reluctor rings do indeed corrode .. the car looks at these .. the normal fault with corrosion on them is an abs activation at low speed though but this is a point worth checking Thumb

My trouble here is the fault code says it can't see or it gets an implausible signal from the steering angle sensor .. thats a sensor on the steering column that measures the angle of turn .. it's only accurate if its been calibrated though .. if not then it could well cause this issue .

let's just say if the car thought a left hand down was straight ahead ( calibration ) .. it then entered a corner on a right hand it would know the angle of the steering was more than the car could do based on the wheel speed sensors then it will throw a code .

Either way the car says at certain times it can't see this signal .. hence im leaning towards this being the issue ... car may well be confused though by the wheel speed sensors and the steering angle sensor and this is the best code it can throw up due to the circumstances .

Both need checking i feel and no offense but an excellent answer that i hadn't considered .

I do hate answering a comment other than the OP,s question .. i don't like to offend people Sad
_________________
.
My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target .

Thank you all so Very much .

She's not going until july 2020 though .



Mechanic

7pm - 9pm

Now At An Indy.
 
  
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TV8
Newbie


Joined: 08 Nov 2019
Posts: 43
Location: Bromley


PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Grifter and deMort. Suggestions appreciated. These rings, if linked to the steering have to be on the front only?

I popped into an OPC and bought a switch today. When I asked for the part, the service person sat behind asked if I had ABS or PSM warning lights up and told me how often they needed changing back in the day!
 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7593
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The brake pedal switch has caused many PSM issues .. not seen a fault code for steering angle sensor because of it before but anything is possible .. always worth changing cheap items first and as something like this will fail sooner or later then its worth doing if only to eliminate it .

Reluctor rings are on All four driveshafts .
_________________
.
My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target .

Thank you all so Very much .

She's not going until july 2020 though .



Mechanic

7pm - 9pm

Now At An Indy.
 
  
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Hughb
Trainee


Joined: 15 Jul 2019
Posts: 57
Location: Somerset


PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excuse me, what is a reluctor ring? Something to do with the ABS is all I can gather. ... on each axle. Would it be the rotation transducer for the ABS so it can know what’s going on?
 
  
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Griffter
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 22 May 2016
Posts: 368



PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hughb wrote:
Excuse me, what is a reluctor ring? Something to do with the ABS is all I can gather. ... on each axle. Would it be the rotation transducer for the ABS so it can know what’s going on?


Yes, the toothed ring which rotates with the driveshaft that the ABS sensor detects.
 
  
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