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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17144
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The big cost can be the crank. If you rebuild early enough the crank can be reused. If you wait till the crank is beyond help then add a few extra £k to the rebuild cost.
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Grey996
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Posts: 346
Location: Sheffield


PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stoddy wrote:
Hi,
Is it cost effective to have a re build before it goes bang, or do you wait for the moment, then re build? Ie, do you squeeze every last mile out of the engine first?

Mines on 168,000 and it’s my daily drive.



That’s the point I’m weighing up, a base engine rebuild is £4300 with any future proofing on top, if you wait until it goes it’s going to be at least double that and probably closer to triple if you go all out.

Nice to hear you’re still going strong at 168,000, at my mileage that would give me at least another 10 years!
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C4Silver
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 14 Aug 2019
Posts: 273



PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly that, see....... your already looking on the bright side ! 10 years is a long time and maybe you will only get 5 ? Who knows, but there are far more important things to worry about in life than the engine in a car,

My neighbour Is currently seeking out the cheapest 997 he can find in an attempt to fill a hole in his garage that a Karman Ghia has created, he’s looking at a local one that’s missed its major service 4 years ago and hasn’t been MOT’d in the same amount of time. I’ve tried educating him and told him mines been meticulously maintained every year and not two and it was still a grand at service time !

This thing needs brakes and 4 tyres so is going to cost him and then some and hasn’t even contemplated a PPI on 95K Miles.

Personally if it’s bought and paid for and needs some attention it’s Not a great issue for me and I look upon it as preventative as do most other enthusiasts, I try and hold on to my daily drives and instead of casting them away at 3 years have kept the past few for 6-7 years, I’ve just changed my wife’s Tiguan and lost a lot more than an engine re build on that one over 6 years !
 
  
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Dammit
Indianapolis


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 2390



PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He could very easily be looking at 10k to get that back into shape (depending on how fastidious he is), which of course is not a problem if he gets it for the price of one that needs nothing -£10,000, but he'll need a PPI to use as ammunition and the current owner may still think it's a 25k car.

With regards to rebuilds ahead of major-bork, I mentioned on my cars thread that I always planned on doing that at 100k miles as I'm satisfied that that's a sensible point with regards to the main bearing shells. There may well be another 100k miles in them at this point- but the point of a prophylactic rebuild is to avoid the situation where there isn't another 100k.

As it stands I'll have my current engine out of the car and on a stand at around 74,000 miles (this is a guess based on the new engine being ready Spring 2020).

I don't know what to do with it really - rebuild it as well? Sell it?
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Phil 997
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 15570
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am glad to see the sensible things being discussed rather than the your all doomed nonsense. and for me two of the main factors eg which oil, for me Millers is a no brainer whether you after advise go 5w40 or 10w50 is your call , personally my 997.2 is newer with less miles and I am using Millers 10w50 . and the other important thing which is had you brought a BMW or Merc or pretty much any other marque after 3 or 4 years you would have lost 10k in depreciation . whats your 996 worth today compared to when you brought it. You must realise you cant have it both ways the difference is should you need to spend 10k at some point in the next 3 years you will still not lost as much as the depreciation of any other marque and effectively driven a 911 for less than bmw money and if it doesn't break then thats just a bonus. a few years ago if someone had said to me you can own and enjoy a 911 and it wont cost you anymore than owning a BMW 320 I would not have believed them. But you must remain realistic , it is possible to own a 911 for BMW money but its rare to own a 911 for bicycle money Grin Thumb
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C4Silver
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 14 Aug 2019
Posts: 273



PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil, I agree..... there’s no point getting emotional about the longevity of a sports car engine, there’s been a lot of talk about the various failures built into the engines in our cars and for good reason, then you hear other owners topping 150K plus.

I’ve said this before on here and it’s exactly what I said to my neighbour who thinks once he’s got one it’ll be trouble free German reliability Aka BMW / Audi esque service bills and maintenance schedule. Buy the best that you can afford, if your gonna leave nothing in reserve for anomaly’s it needs to be serviced, MOT’d, tyres, brakes and a book full of stamps. Don’t buy a car that’s being flogged because the owner knows it’s not been looked after and it’s gonna cost...... your just buying some one else’s cast offs, mix this With some one who sits at home fretting about Brexit, melting ice caps and gender equality and it makes for grim reading, I’ve read posts where others worry by proxy over some one else’s IMS bearing or the fact that they might get bore scoring......

If all I’d got to fret about was a dodgy bearing and some cylinder scuffing I’d be extatic ! I don’t even think about any of it and I certainly don’t want a Dot Cotton Fretting on my behalf,
 
  
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Dammit
Indianapolis


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 2390



PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First thing you do if you buy a V8 M3 or a V10 M5 is get all the bearing shells pulled out and replaced, lest you want a shell welded onto the crank.

Danger zone is 80-100k, anything beyond that without swapping shells and you're playing with fire - or so I was told when I was looking at M5 estates.

The M96 isn't great, in some departments - no question.

It's not alone in that, and I suspect the opprobrium heaped upon it is in part due to the reputation for bullet proof reliability that Porsche had created for itself in the air-cooled era.

You don't hear "mate, it'll blow up any second - steer clear!" when you're looking at an M5 in the same way that you do when you are looking at a 996 or 997.1.
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2998


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I estimate that _any_ car will cost me at least £1000 a years either in deprecation or maintenance. Its kinda the very minimum to run a car I worked out.

My car only owes me a little more than the cost of a "roller" car with engine dead from eBay + £1000 a year.

So if the engine does die I will just swap any nice or recently replaced bits out of it, eBay it and I won't be much out of pocket.

I don't bother with oil analysis any more, the failure mode of a worn bearing is no copper in oil then immediately loads, you would be very very lucky to catch it with oil analysis.

I run it on millers 10w40 nano (140k miles) and its in rude health.
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cvega
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 25 Feb 2013
Posts: 288
Location: Cambridge


PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

145k ... of which 5k in the last 3 years :/

I'll get oil looked at next time, but for now - it is what it is !
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Bluebird911
Nürburgring


Joined: 29 May 2010
Posts: 461



PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP,

If you are genuinely concerned about your engine going pop or to catch worn shell bearings early, I think Hartech make a compelling case with their oversize engine conversion included in the overhaul!!

Get a 36 month 0% credit card to spread the £10k cost (if that is what it is) and it makes the decision doubly easy coming out at £278 per month.

If the car is a genuine keeper it makes good sense and even if you sell on after 5 years, you will have had 5 years stress free motoring in a better driving car that still has at least £5k (I would think) residual value from the Hartech work.

Just my thoughts!!
 
  
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skinny_monkey
Nürburgring


Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Posts: 464



PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think 5k residual on a hartech rebuild is a little optimistic, maybe 2k at most. 3-4k for an oversized.
Whether you're spending for maintenance or upgrading, you never get your money back.
 
  
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Grey996
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Posts: 346
Location: Sheffield


PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Borescope images back and very good news, all but number 4 were totally unmarked and like new, number 4 has some marks (the line down the middle is light) which apparently are definitely not bore score and probably caused on the first start up, nothing to worry about anyway. Phew!
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Phil 997
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 15570
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grey996 wrote:
Borescope images back and very good news, all but number 4 were totally unmarked and like new, number 4 has some marks (the line down the middle is light) which apparently are definitely not bore score and probably caused on the first start up, nothing to worry about anyway. Phew!


good news mate , just normal scuffing all engines get that. Thumb
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Grey996
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Posts: 346
Location: Sheffield


PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil 997 wrote:


good news mate , just normal scuffing all engines get that. Thumb


Thanks, glad to hear it.

I’ve sent my oil sample off today so hopefully my luck will hold!
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Phil 997
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 15570
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grey996 wrote:
Phil 997 wrote:


good news mate , just normal scuffing all engines get that. Thumb


Thanks, glad to hear it.

I’ve sent my oil sample off today so hopefully my luck will hold!


are you planning on changing the oil to millers 10w50 or 5w40 or a thicker viscosity of some other brand . and more regular oil changes , these things are recommended to reduce future risks . Thumb
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Norfolk & Idea
Albert Park


Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Posts: 1584
Location: South Yorkshire


PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jond58 wrote:
Everything with wheels costs money! I have a Vito v6 for my work. I barely do 25mpg and I’ve just ordered a prop for it at £1k !?! It’s only money, you can’t take it with you. No pockets in shrouds and all that!


Just sold mine. Great van Thumb But yeah, a bit thirsty. Got the 119 CDI now. It seems to run for free by comparison Laughing
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Grey996
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Posts: 346
Location: Sheffield


PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil 997 wrote:
Grey996 wrote:
Phil 997 wrote:


good news mate , just normal scuffing all engines get that. Thumb


Thanks, glad to hear it.

I’ve sent my oil sample off today so hopefully my luck will hold!


are you planning on changing the oil to millers 10w50 or 5w40 or a thicker viscosity of some other brand . and more regular oil changes , these things are recommended to reduce future risks . Thumb


Mine gets changed every year which for me is only just over 3k miles. The garage used Mobil Super 3000 X1 5w40 but i’ll have a look next year when i do it.
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churny
Montreal


Joined: 17 Nov 2010
Posts: 501
Location: Newcastle

2003 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Engines are mechanical and fail, you can of course look after the engines with preventive maintenance but they wont last forever. Everyone wants low bills but its a lottery and I speak as someone that has had an engine rebuild.
Buy a car you want and look after it as best you can but it still might cost you £££'s
Cars cost
Sad
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Grey996
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Posts: 346
Location: Sheffield


PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got a green tick from Millers and the waste metal levels are ‘satisfactory’ but I was wondering if any experts could shed anymore light on the results with specific reference to our cars?
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Hertsdriver
Nürburgring


Joined: 12 Nov 2018
Posts: 475
Location: Hertfordshire/London

2004 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This might help:
https://www.mrtlaboratories.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/MRT_Metals_Detected_in_Machine_Fluid_Analysis.pdf
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