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jl-c
Monza


Joined: 22 Jul 2013
Posts: 224
Location: Shropshire


PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:12 pm    Post subject: Centre Radiator question Reply with quote

No this is not the usual question Smile
I wondered if anyone who has not fitted the kit knows the ID of the long hose?
I intend to fit a stat in line to mine (yes I fitted it all before understanding the ramifications of doing so!)
If unknown the OD would help and I can make an educated guess on the size of the tails required. I intend to fit a 95C stat so should only come in if absolutely needed. I also have a little man with a lathe who is expert at making things for me set up to make the in-line housing. He has already made me replacement hydraulic cylinders for the turbo/turbo S rear wing. I just need that dimension before he can produce this from a solid billet.
Any info appreciated Thumb
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Porsche Carrera 2S 2005 black fully Hartech'd!, BMW Z4 coupé 2007 blue, Mazda Eunos 1996 yellow, VW Passat 2014 black.


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Windy101
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 05 Jun 2015
Posts: 279



PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a kit in my garage at home but it will be the end of the week till I get access to measure. If you don't have an answer I will get it to you Friday at the latest
 
  
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C4Silver
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 14 Aug 2019
Posts: 255



PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have one stuck in a box in the roof of the garage, I had thought about fitting a swirl pot from a motorsport application to step down the drop and use the two ends of the original pipe to fit each side with clamps of the same diameter on entry and exit to the pot with a thermostat tapped in the bottom?
 
  
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jl-c
Monza


Joined: 22 Jul 2013
Posts: 224
Location: Shropshire


PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Windy101 wrote:
I have a kit in my garage at home but it will be the end of the week till I get access to measure. If you don't have an answer I will get it to you Friday at the latest


That would be much appreciated! I could remove the bumper and hose on mine to measure but I don't really want to disable the car for that long, I drive mine through winter, hence the need to sort this soon as apparently the issue caused by the centre rad is worse in cold weather.
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jl-c
Monza


Joined: 22 Jul 2013
Posts: 224
Location: Shropshire


PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

C4Silver wrote:
I have one stuck in a box in the roof of the garage, I had thought about fitting a swirl pot from a motorsport application to step down the drop and use the two ends of the original pipe to fit each side with clamps of the same diameter on entry and exit to the pot with a thermostat tapped in the bottom?


If you persue this let us know how it goes Smile interested to see if that works, it would be easier than manufacturing an inline housing. Still would need those dimensions though! I had thought to use the inline stat from an auto BMW Z4 but of course you are stuck with their choice of stat opening temperature so not possible to experiment.
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Hertsdriver
Nürburgring


Joined: 12 Nov 2018
Posts: 442
Location: Hertfordshire/London

2004 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it helps another member called bullet-proof_biscuit says on the 'what have you bought this week' thread that he has fitted an inline thermostat to his 3rd rad kit. I asked for more specific details but he hasn't posted back yet. Maybe drop him a message?
http://911uk.com/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=40845

bullet-proof_biscuit wrote:


Oorrr; fit a thermostatic valve on to the centre radiator inlet hose AND a Hartech low temperature thermostat, like me!

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
 
  
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jl-c
Monza


Joined: 22 Jul 2013
Posts: 224
Location: Shropshire


PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Hertsdriver"]If it helps another member called bullet-proof_biscuit says on the 'what have you bought this week' thread that he has fitted an inline thermostat to his 3rd rad kit. I asked for more specific details but he hasn't posted back yet. Maybe drop him a message?
http://911uk.com/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=40845

Thank you for this, I have spoken to him already but it seems that it is a trial fit for someone else and for something that if it works will market for hundreds and I am trying to avoid that sort of cost! At that cost I may as well revert back to normal and remove the centre rad. I gather he did not produce it ( if I understand correctly) so wouldn’t know the dimensions. Thank you anyway!
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Windy101
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Joined: 05 Jun 2015
Posts: 279



PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inside diameter of metal fitting on the end of the hose is 26mm
Its not a simple shape though.
 
  
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Windy101
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Joined: 05 Jun 2015
Posts: 279



PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

O/D of the rubber hose is 29mm
 
  
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jl-c
Monza


Joined: 22 Jul 2013
Posts: 224
Location: Shropshire


PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Windy101 wrote:
O/D of the rubber hose is 29mm


Thank you for those figures, it gives me something to work with. Cheers! I will post a follow up when/if I find a reasonable solution. Many thanks again. Smile Thumb
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C4Silver
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 14 Aug 2019
Posts: 255



PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something like this

Courtesy of agcauto.com
 



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jl-c
Monza


Joined: 22 Jul 2013
Posts: 224
Location: Shropshire


PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish! Unfortunately nothing like that at all! This is closer but I am having to get something made with the correct diameters to fit on the hoses, contain an easily obtained thermostat and fit in the available space Surprised
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Porsche Carrera 2S 2005 black fully Hartech'd!, BMW Z4 coupé 2007 blue, Mazda Eunos 1996 yellow, VW Passat 2014 black.


We all do silly things/make mistakes, it's how we deal with them that sets us apart from animals and Americans.
 



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jl-c
Monza


Joined: 22 Jul 2013
Posts: 224
Location: Shropshire


PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the circuit and I am trying to control the flow through the centre radiator.
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We all do silly things/make mistakes, it's how we deal with them that sets us apart from animals and Americans.
 



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Windy101
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Posts: 279



PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pictures so you know what I was measuring
 



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Hertsdriver
Nürburgring


Joined: 12 Nov 2018
Posts: 442
Location: Hertfordshire/London

2004 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So from Windy's pic it seems there is enough of a straight run on one of the pipes to fit an inline housing, are you able to measure the length of the straight run as per the pic below?

If the ID of the hoses is 26mm then surely one of the off the shelf 1 1/4" inline thermostats made by Meziere from america will work? its only stretching the rubber hoses by 5mm, once a decent jubilee clip is in place that shouldn't be an issue and be a much cheaper solution than a custom one. They are made to take standard sized thermostats so one of the correct temperature can be installed (no idea what that would be though.. any thoughts?). They do sell them in the uk as they are used as an upgrade on various Rovers/Landrovers but obviously cheaper direct from the USA. From what I can find the WL0071 is 16cm long:



Inline housing:
https://www.meziere.com/Products/Cooling-System-Accessories/Inline-Stat-Housings/Inline-Thermostat-Housing-1-25-Hose-to-1-25-Hose.aspx

Various temperature thermostats (presume these are listed in Fahrenheit)
https://www.meziere.com/Products/Cooling-System-Accessories/Thermostats.aspx
 



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jl-c
Monza


Joined: 22 Jul 2013
Posts: 224
Location: Shropshire


PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly the line I was going down! I was intending to get a custom sized one made as it would work out slightly cheaper but, is it worth the hassle? Gates do a 95C stat which is the one I was thinking of going with as according to what I understand Barry from Hartech saying, really the centre rad if fitted should not be used at all unless the other two are at saturation point ie. track use very close to car in front, hence the 95C rating so basically it will never open in normal road use. Could get a Meziere one and just turn down the stubs to suit the hose diameter. There appears to be sufficient meat on them to lose a mm or so without issue. Don’t know yet, will take a bit of experimentation plus a way of securing it so it doesn’t move about and damage itself or other things very close to it! It is surprising how much force loose things have when on track and giving it beans Grin
_________________
Porsche Carrera 2S 2005 black fully Hartech'd!, BMW Z4 coupé 2007 blue, Mazda Eunos 1996 yellow, VW Passat 2014 black.


We all do silly things/make mistakes, it's how we deal with them that sets us apart from animals and Americans.
 
  
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Hertsdriver
Nürburgring


Joined: 12 Nov 2018
Posts: 442
Location: Hertfordshire/London

2004 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old renault 5's had an inline thermostat, but its OD is too large to go in the tiny pipework Sad

The ideal would be a thermostat thats small enough to sit in the the end of the metal hose connector, that way it would be held in place by the clips and no cutting would be required.... but all thermostats are the same size (54mm) so thats a no go
 
  
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jl-c
Monza


Joined: 22 Jul 2013
Posts: 224
Location: Shropshire


PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hertsdriver wrote:
Old renault 5's had an inline thermostat, but its OD is too large to go in the tiny pipework Sad

The ideal would be a thermostat thats small enough to sit in the the end of the metal hose connector, that way it would be held in place by the clips and no cutting would be required.... but all thermostats are the same size (54mm) so thats a no go

I know, it’s a pain! Gone down that route too, the Gordini was the highest temp one but still not high enough. As you say, it would have been ideal if one could be inserted in the pipe itself. Unless we could make a smaller diameter one ? Dont know
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Porsche Carrera 2S 2005 black fully Hartech'd!, BMW Z4 coupé 2007 blue, Mazda Eunos 1996 yellow, VW Passat 2014 black.


We all do silly things/make mistakes, it's how we deal with them that sets us apart from animals and Americans.
 
  
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Hertsdriver
Nürburgring


Joined: 12 Nov 2018
Posts: 442
Location: Hertfordshire/London

2004 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thinking this through, would a 3 way inline with a return not be a better idea to stop the possibility of dead flow areas in the system? could add a T peice return in somewhere for when the thermostat is closed
 
  
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jl-c
Monza


Joined: 22 Jul 2013
Posts: 224
Location: Shropshire


PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hertsdriver wrote:
Thinking this through, would a 3 way inline with a return not be a better idea to stop the possibility of dead flow areas in the system? could add a T peice return in somewhere for when the thermostat is closed

Good point, however what is the state of the vehicle prior to fitting a centre rad? Both lines terminated in a blank so, I assumed you would not need a bypass. I may be wrong Question
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