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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17022
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well here's a perfect example: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=120709
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g911omr
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 302



PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personal experience is always going determine how you see things.
You could buy either a high or a low mileage car and have a nightmare with both.
I have only owned 3 911's. The first was a high miles well used 964 that needed constant attention. Nothing major, but always something. Number 2 was a lowish miles lightly used 964T that during the 14 years I owned it needed very little over and above normal servicing.
Number 3 is a 996 c2 3.4, the nicest and best maintained of the 3.
I'm sure at the time I could have picked up something else for less than I paid but to me the time and money put into the car by the previous owner warranted the extra.
 
  
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Martin996RSR
Nürburgring


Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Posts: 395



PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's pretty simple really; if you're buying a car to use then buy on condition and service history. If you're kidding yourself you're in it for an investment then buy very low miles, and again a full, preferably Porsche, service history.

And to those saying you can't have a perfect high miles car because of the mileage, and then criticising high miles cars for being looked after with lots of replacement parts and new engines etc, you can't have it both ways. The car has either been looked after or it hasn't, and that goes for any mileage.

I'd buy Popopbanbang's 250,000 miles+ C4 over one with 50,000 miles and a basic service hostory because he's an enthusiast who has very clearly looked after and improved the car.
 
  
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GMG
Nürburgring


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 433
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...at the risk of echolalia my advice to anyone thinking of purchasing a low or high mileage 996 is that unless you have a spare and available £10k slush fund then don't!

Or buy one with an engine rebuild as compared to the inevitable and determinable sundry items that will require replacement the unpredictable nature of an engine shitting itself is a rather different matter...

As an example; I bought a genuinely immaculate two owner full OPC 996 with
69k miles thus most would conclude a relatively safe bet...engine shat itself necessitating a rebuild that cost£14k mainly because swarf went everywhere!!!

You pays your money...
 
  
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coullstar
Albert Park


Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 1626
Location: Aberdeen/Torphins


PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it depends on what mileage your going to do in your car as well. If your only doing 1000miles or so a year then the chances of anything happening obviously extends.

If your doing 5k miles a year then that's different. Totally depends on what your going to use it for as well i.e. track, Sunday blast or just occasional nice drive.

IMO buy one and drive them like there built for. Lifes to short.
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g911omr
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 302



PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GMG wrote:
...at the risk of echolalia my advice to anyone thinking of purchasing a low or high mileage 996 is that unless you have a spare and available £10k slush fund then don't!

Or buy one with an engine rebuild as compared to the inevitable and determinable sundry items that will require replacement the unpredictable nature of an engine shitting itself is a rather different matter...

As an example; I bought a genuinely immaculate two owner full OPC 996 with
69k miles thus most would conclude a relatively safe bet...engine shat itself necessitating a rebuild that cost£14k mainly because swarf went everywhere!!!

You pays your money...


The experience you've had is a bad one with an otherwise good car. The previous owner would probably have a different view and would singing the virtues of a brilliant reliable car. I absolutely agree with you in terms of having the funds in case of a disaster, however I still maintain that buying a well cared for, lower mileage car will be cheaper in the long run.
As you say....

You pays your money...
 
  
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Rik b
Newbie


Joined: 14 Sep 2019
Posts: 42


2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
I had a C2 cab a few years ago that i sold for £13k with 175k on and still see it flying around today. Good car !!!

I don’t know if i was lucky with that one..... My currant C2 has 85k and I don’t worry at all. These are good cars
 
  
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waynew
Newbie


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 25



PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

g911omr wrote:
GMG wrote:
...at the risk of echolalia my advice to anyone thinking of purchasing a low or high mileage 996 is that unless you have a spare and available £10k slush fund then don't!

Or buy one with an engine rebuild as compared to the inevitable and determinable sundry items that will require replacement the unpredictable nature of an engine shitting itself is a rather different matter...

As an example; I bought a genuinely immaculate two owner full OPC 996 with
69k miles thus most would conclude a relatively safe bet...engine shat itself necessitating a rebuild that cost£14k mainly because swarf went everywhere!!!

You pays your money...


The experience you've had is a bad one with an otherwise good car. The previous owner would probably have a different view and would singing the virtues of a brilliant reliable car. I absolutely agree with you in terms of having the funds in case of a disaster, however I still maintain that buying a well cared for, lower mileage car will be cheaper in the long run.
As you say....

You pays your money...


Rather than have 10k to spare , buy a high miles then take it to a specialist and have a New clutch and IMS RMS done. Much cheaper than a full rebuild and still probably save over a low miles car .
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Wayne
996 C4S - Tip
Back to Porsche after 3 years with Aston.
Now to drive and not to look at..
 
  
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Pompeydave
Newbie


Joined: 05 Oct 2019
Posts: 5



PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi chaps, fascinating stuff, thanks for all the points and opinions. I currently drive a very nicely maintained but 103k 10 plate Range Rover 3.6 TdV8. Luxury motoring, but I did my research before buying and the knowledge I gained hasn’t let me down. So many people have problems with them because they buy cars that haven’t been looked after and then wonder why they go wrong. Higher than average mileage kills value but works for me nearly every time as long as a proper service history is present and there is preferably only one previous owner. Now with the Porsche idea I’m looking at a garaged, low use weekend car so again higher than average but well maintained is the way I’m looking to go. Having said that there’s a 74k ragtop I've seen that looks like a good deal at 13k. Dunno, need to read up a lot more before diving in I think.
 
  
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GMG
Nürburgring


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 433
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...tbh more reading isn't really going to help...two of the three significantly costly potential issues (ims and bearing wear failure) can't easily or cheaply be predicted...the third bore score can be at least identified...

This is the issue really...potentially crippling expense if the worst happens and you don't have a healthy slush fund...

This is the reason of course that they are relatively affordable...

Good luck and wish you well.
 
  
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2990


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GMG wrote:
...tbh more reading isn't really going to help...two of the three significantly costly potential issues (ims and bearing wear failure) can't easily or cheaply be predicted...the third bore score can be at least identified...

This is the issue really...potentially crippling expense if the worst happens and you don't have a healthy slush fund...

This is the reason of course that they are relatively affordable...

Good luck and wish you well.


To mitigate bore score and IMS bearing problems you could go for an early 3.4 that are different design / spec so suffer neither as frequently.

But then they will be higher mileage and older so might just be more likely to randomly fail, or have a worn bottom end.

Basically don't buy one if you are staking all your savings on it and you need a car for work.

Risk profile does not follow value. Cabs and c4 are cheaper than c2 coupe and c4s. The 3.4 is cheaper than a 3.6 even though it is has a lower frequency of design caused failures and looks better.

There is truth in the £20k 911 theory - think of a £10k 996 and the 10k is a downpayment towards a 20k car with the rest payable over the next 5 years.....some will say it's better to drop £20k to begin with from e.g. 911virgin and enjoy it.

If you can find a £15k private car that has been gone over, rebuilt engine, new suspension, brake lines, fly & clutch etc bite their hand off no matter what the mileage.
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Pompeydave
Newbie


Joined: 05 Oct 2019
Posts: 5



PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can afford to pay for any nasty bills that may occur but I’d rather avoid them if possible! I like the 20k theory though- works well for me I think. If it goes wrong the budget is there to fix it- if it doesn’t what’s not to like? Thinking of hiring one for a day to get a taste of what they’re all about. £225 for the day on a 2002 cabriolet seems to be a ballpark figure. Only a 100 mile limit though.
 
  
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askgeez
Barcelona


Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 1499
Location: Essex


PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last month I bought an October 03 C4s manual cabriolet. very clean indeed, just 71k miles, and hood is like new. Appeal was a full OPC history, not because an OPC is better than an Indy, but the previous owners were clearly not scroungers so hopefully had looked after it. Dealer gave a 6 month warranty.
I paid "mid market" I reckon.

Evidence of lots of recent expenditure, such as aircon condensers, rear brake lines, front discs and pads, rear tyres, dansk stainless silencers...

Now here's the post sale experience ... Laughing

Alternator failed on drive home, basically where the car had been low miles / sitting waiting for sale plus a rubbish battery, it died . A PPI wouldn't probably have picked this up , just bad luck. But the dealer honoured the warranty, and I now have a brand new Bosch and S5... Thumb


Whilst its on the ramp....Kev at DW performance advises (and replaces) :-

rear discs - inner face corroded (change pads too)
front brake lines poor
heat shields corroded
coil packs not great
spark plugs whilst he is there
front tyres , plenty of tread but 7 years old

Car drives beautifully ....yet I can't really relax and enjoy the car, so back to Kev !! Floor


IMS, RMS, AOS all replaced
exhaust too quiet, so gundo hack
Custom radiator grills (to protect the new condensers!)


the next owner will have had a result
thumbsup

Low miles are no guarantee of anything,
A mate bought a 25k mile c4s 996 a few years back, IMS failed = £9k rebuild

My old 997 c4s manual had the gearbox fail in 1st and 2nd Synchro, sports and classic charged £5k (that did include a clutch and flywheel). Was on about 70k miles IIRC


Moral is.....drive a few. Make sure you know what model you genuinely like for the long term...996, 997, Caymans, Tip and Manual, coupe and cabriolet .
Last thing you want is to be throwing money at a car that you don't really love.

Buy from an enthusiast if possible , lots of paperwork to show they have serviced regularly , oil changes , and refreshed the common issues. There are enough uncommon issues to worry about Razz
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911 SC Targa Manual (04/19 >)
996.2 C4s Cabriolet Manual (09/19>)
Gone:
997.2 GTS coupe PDK (06/17-02/19)
997.1 C4s coupe Manual (04/15-06/17)
 
  
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Pompeydave
Newbie


Joined: 05 Oct 2019
Posts: 5



PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed, all makes sense- nothing is guaranteed with buying a used car so it will always be a gamble to a degree. Buying from an enthusiast is my preferred route to ownership. Thanks again for all the tips and offers of help everyone!
 
  
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billy_ray
Newbie


Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Posts: 14



PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To add my experience - did the research, test drove a few to get the feel for the car (hugely important as you quickly understand the difference between a good one and a tired one) and went in with the view of largely ignoring service book stamps and concentrating on finding one with a long history of actual receipts that had been regularly driven & maintained. Ended up with a 2001 C2 with 100k on the clock that had just had a complete suspension overhaul by Center Gravity for 9.5k. In my 5 years (and counting) of ownership I've had a radiator replaced, the gearbox stripped, cleaned and rebuilt (pinion bearing issue) & RMS done by Porsche specialists and have myself replaced the AOS, high pressure power steering line, coil packs, horn, tuning fork control arms, front & rear discs & pads, a couple of coolant hoses, spark plugs with the oil and all filters done every 6 months. The pinion bearing apart (a 2k job) I consider all the above to be general wear & tear items one would expect to have to deal with on a high mileage 996. There's a crazy amount of info available for these cars so if you can follow instructions and are not scared of getting your hands dirty these can be maintained relatively cheaply.
Currently mine's on 152k miles and still drives beautifully. The stiffness of the chassis, the steering feel, the almost perfect power to weight ratio, that wonderful free revving naturally aspirated howling flat 6, the sheer unrivalled beauty of the thing.... these are absolutely fanatsic cars with a purity & sense of occasion few can match (I still smile every time I start mine up). Yes they do go pop occasionally and yes that will be f*cking expensive but if that's what concerns you, buy an M135 or something similarly 10 a penny. No way I'm selling mine Cool
 
  
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billy_ray
Newbie


Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Posts: 14



PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and get a manual C2 coupe, anything else is just pretending Wink
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17022
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poppycock
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 7232
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

billy_ray wrote:
... a 2001 C2 with 100k on the clock that had just had a complete suspension overhaul by Center Gravity for 9.5k.


Wait... what?? Did they pay Lewis Hamilton to track test it? Surprised
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Current: 2003 C4S Coupe, seal/black

Ex: '02 C4S Coupe, '96 993 Targa, '88 Carrera Sport Coupe
 
  
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billy_ray
Newbie


Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Posts: 14



PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

haha, yeah, thought that looked a little misleading once i'd posted.... the carwas 9.5k, the CG bill around 2.5 if memory serves
 
  
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billy_ray
Newbie


Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Posts: 14



PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex wrote:
Poppycock


Not bad for a hairdressers car, not bad at all Very Happy
 
  
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