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Poker2009
Österreich


Joined: 09 Sep 2009
Posts: 935
Location: London


PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wasz wrote:
You could buy a much newer 911 if you are canny and sell in a couple of years for next to no difference and not have to do anything but routine servicing. Those are the real cheap 911s.


I can't see it - perhaps in days gone by, but not anymore. To buy from a dealer/specialist, there is a premium to pay. Most private sellers see dealer prices, and want the same.

On top of that, if you put 8-10k miles (or even 2k miles!) on the car in two years, I would say it is impossible to get back what you paid.

I guess any of these cars not cheap to buy and own. I have owned mine now for ten years, has served me well, with no out of the ordinary problems (and I have pretty much self-serviced from the outset), so can spend some money if I want/need to. To get big bills on a newly purchased "older car", would probably be difficult to stomach.
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Alex
Le Mans
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Joined: 06 Mar 2014
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Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's (3.4) the most versatile, robust, everyday 911 of the M96/97 engines.
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Alex
Le Mans
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Joined: 06 Mar 2014
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Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poker2009 wrote:
wasz wrote:
You could buy a much newer 911 if you are canny and sell in a couple of years for next to no difference and not have to do anything but routine servicing. Those are the real cheap 911s.


I can't see it - perhaps in days gone by, but not anymore. To buy from a dealer/specialist, there is a premium to pay. Most private sellers see dealer prices, and want the same.



There's quite a few members on here who've recently traded their 911/Boxster/Cayman in for virtually the same price they bought them for 2 years earlier.
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g911omr
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 29 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see the value in 100k+ cars at £10-12 when a 50-60k car is £14-16.
The potential spend on the high miles car may well exceed the saving and you are still left with a high mileage vehicle.
 
  
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2990


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

g911omr wrote:
I don't see the value in 100k+ cars at £10-12 when a 50-60k car is £14-16.
The potential spend on the high miles car may well exceed the saving and you are still left with a high mileage vehicle.



They are both 20 years old. They'll both need hardened suspension bushes changed and load of other age rather than mileage related things.

The only real difference is miles on the engine. £6k will go a long way to a rebuild that might never happen.

And if you literally only have £10k, then £14-16 is out of reach.
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g911omr
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 29 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wasz wrote:
g911omr wrote:
I don't see the value in 100k+ cars at £10-12 when a 50-60k car is £14-16.
The potential spend on the high miles car may well exceed the saving and you are still left with a high mileage vehicle.



They are both 20 years old. They'll both need hardened suspension bushes changed and load of other age rather than mileage related things.

The only real difference is miles on the engine. £6k will go a long way to a rebuild that might never happen.

And if you literally only have £10k, then £14-16 is out of reach.



Obviously just my opinion but a £10k 996 could very quickly become a £14k car. I'm certain that a well sorted lowish miles 996 can be had for £16k. That car may need very little spending having had the major jobs already done.
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
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Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17029
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

g911omr wrote:


Obviously just my opinion but a £10k 996 could very quickly become a £14k car. I'm certain that a well sorted lowish miles 996 can be had for £16k. That car may need very little spending having had the major jobs already done.


I'll bet most low mileage 996 that are currently up for sale around £16k are no where near 'well sorted'. People see FSH & low mileage for age and think it's mint and priced right. Rubber (and other materials) perish with age, not miles and it's only usually someone who's an enthusiast who'll have spent money on replacing the stuff any average owner wouldn't think of.
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g911omr
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 29 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex wrote:
g911omr wrote:


Obviously just my opinion but a £10k 996 could very quickly become a £14k car. I'm certain that a well sorted lowish miles 996 can be had for £16k. That car may need very little spending having had the major jobs already done.


I'll bet most low mileage 996 that are currently up for sale around £16k are no where near 'well sorted'. People see FSH & low mileage for age and think it's mint and priced right. Rubber (and other materials) perish with age, not miles and it's only usually someone who's an enthusiast who'll have spent money on replacing the stuff any average owner wouldn't think of.



You're right. Most won't be. But there are bound to be good cars out there.
Again, just my opinion based on experience. Nothing against cheap high miles cars, but in the long run they are likely to cost more.
 
  
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jboy
Trainee


Joined: 30 May 2017
Posts: 88



PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My friend bought a 996.1 in 1999. He still owns it. It has done 240000 miles. He has receipts for 120k in that 20 year period, including 2 engines but also including things he really didn’t need. Current condition: concours. Ok so he spent 175k getting there, but so what. The point is - miles mean nothing. His car has done twice the miles of most leggy 996s you will come across and yet it is factory fresh. Literally. I saw it after it’s 10k respray and it just looked incredible. What is his car worth? Hard to say - the fact it has done 240k miles means that it will never, ever be collectible. But the fact that it is in genuinely factory condition makes it hard to resist. Don’t be put off by mileage - a dog is a dog. A good car is just that.

Last edited by jboy on Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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jboy
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Double post
 
  
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Poker2009
Österreich


Joined: 09 Sep 2009
Posts: 935
Location: London


PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jboy wrote:
My friend bought a 996.1 in 1999. He still owns it. It has done 240000 miles. He has receipts for 120k in that 20 year period, including 2 engines but also including things he really didn’t need. Current condition: concours. Ok so he spent 175k getting there, but so what. The point is - miles mean nothing. His car has done twice the miles of most leggy 996s you will come across and yet it is factory fresh. Literally. I saw it after it’s 10k respray and it just looked incredible. What is his car worth? Hard to say - the fact it has done 240k miles means that it will never, ever be collectible. But the fact that it is in genuinely factory condition makes it hard to resist. Don’t be put off by mileage - a dog is a dog. A good car is just that.


That is a bit of mop story that has had 4 new handles and 6 new brushes.
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mattomg
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Joined: 10 Apr 2019
Posts: 51
Location: Portsouth


PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poker 2009

Yep, what I was thinking (Trigger)
 
  
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jboy
Trainee


Joined: 30 May 2017
Posts: 88



PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poker2009 wrote:
jboy wrote:
My friend bought a 996.1 in 1999. He still owns it. It has done 240000 miles. He has receipts for 120k in that 20 year period, including 2 engines but also including things he really didn’t need. Current condition: concours. Ok so he spent 175k getting there, but so what. The point is - miles mean nothing. His car has done twice the miles of most leggy 996s you will come across and yet it is factory fresh. Literally. I saw it after it’s 10k respray and it just looked incredible. What is his car worth? Hard to say - the fact it has done 240k miles means that it will never, ever be collectible. But the fact that it is in genuinely factory condition makes it hard to resist. Don’t be put off by mileage - a dog is a dog. A good car is just that.


That is a bit of mop story that has had 4 new handles and 6 new brushes.


I am familiar with the Ship of Theseus thought experiment - just not wholly convinced of it’s application in this instance. All of the panels of my friend’s car are original for example (new paint, but original panel). Regardless, and sticking to the point, I am trying to help the OP; a high mileage car might be in excellent and indeed concours condition, although it might not. Mileage alone simply won’t tell you the condition it is in.....
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17029
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perfect example is when someone buys a garage queer with 15 year old tyres on.
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jboy
Trainee


Joined: 30 May 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex wrote:
Perfect example is when someone buys a garage queer with 15 year old tyres on.


Brilliant Freudian slip Smile
 
  
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Pauldeacs80
Newbie


Joined: 30 Jul 2019
Posts: 32



PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jboy wrote:
Poker2009 wrote:
jboy wrote:
My friend bought a 996.1 in 1999. He still owns it. It has done 240000 miles. He has receipts for 120k in that 20 year period, including 2 engines but also including things he really didn’t need. Current condition: concours. Ok so he spent 175k getting there, but so what. The point is - miles mean nothing. His car has done twice the miles of most leggy 996s you will come across and yet it is factory fresh. Literally. I saw it after it’s 10k respray and it just looked incredible. What is his car worth? Hard to say - the fact it has done 240k miles means that it will never, ever be collectible. But the fact that it is in genuinely factory condition makes it hard to resist. Don’t be put off by mileage - a dog is a dog. A good car is just that.


That is a bit of mop story that has had 4 new handles and 6 new brushes.


I am familiar with the Ship of Theseus thought experiment - just not wholly convinced of it’s application in this instance. All of the panels of my friend’s car are original for example (new paint, but original panel). Regardless, and sticking to the point, I am trying to help the OP; a high mileage car might be in excellent and indeed concours condition, although it might not. Mileage alone simply won’t tell you the condition it is in.....


I bought my 996 on 203,000 miles and to be fair you would never know it has done those miles. I have always bought high mile cars, bmws, mercs, audis and now the porsche. The problem in some respects with a lower mileage car is it could be right on the cusp of needing loads of major parts replaced, low mileage is not always better. I've told many friends this over the years and they have been bitten in the ass by a low miles car that has been sat up with damp festering away underneath, brakes jamming up, coolant and antifreeze crystalising and blocking small water ways.

My wifes audi A4 is a good example of a high miles car, 250,000 miles, not a spot of rust underneath despite being driven daily. Why? Because it never gets cold and damp, its never left festering.

I know a high miles 996 will always be a hard car to sell on and worth less but I bought the car to drive, not to brag i owned a porsche or to park it up in a garage and look at it. A car should be driven.

My 996 had to have a full engine replacement at 90,000 and then that replacement engine had to have a Hartech rebuild at 145,000. Based on that is a 85,000 mile car or a 140,000 mile car less of a risk than a 200,000 car? not really. Depends if you are buying a car to drive or to potentially make money on.
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17029
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jboy wrote:
Alex wrote:
Perfect example is when someone buys a garage queer with 15 year old tyres on.


Brilliant Freudian slip Smile


Well.......locking something away in darkness, preventing it from living a normal life and taking late night pilgrimages in there to get off resembles the actions of Josef Fritzel.
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GMG
Nürburgring


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
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Location: Devon


PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

..the fundamental issue of a mechanically well sorted high miler is the inevitable wear and tear that is likely to be commensurate with the mileage...all things being equal; miles add up to use; which adds up to wear and tear especially to the interior, seats,trim surfaces etc....

I'm not averse to high milers and have owned a few however the miles always showed...
 
  
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UncleP
Silverstone


Joined: 27 Feb 2019
Posts: 132



PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex wrote:
g911omr wrote:


Obviously just my opinion but a £10k 996 could very quickly become a £14k car. I'm certain that a well sorted lowish miles 996 can be had for £16k. That car may need very little spending having had the major jobs already done.


I'll bet most low mileage 996 that are currently up for sale around £16k are no where near 'well sorted'. People see FSH & low mileage for age and think it's mint and priced right. Rubber (and other materials) perish with age, not miles and it's only usually someone who's an enthusiast who'll have spent money on replacing the stuff any average owner wouldn't think of.


My 2001 C4 on 80k, bought in March, cost £14,500 and while it looked ok on the surface the PPI flagged up almost £6k of necessary work. I looked at many around that price and none were anywhere near mint so I agree that a lowish miles mint 996 for c£16k is a rare thing.

The dealer picked up the bill for everything raised in the PPI so it was a valuable lesson for me to never ever buy one of these cars without it being checked by a professional. There are still lots of bits that need done on the car so I suppose now you could say it's a £20k 996 and still isn't mint.

I'm happy with the car but I do wonder if buying one with moon miles and a price that reflected this would have been better. (not that 80k is especially low)
 
  
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baldguy
Hockenheim


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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Location: Berkshire & London


PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fail to see how a 80-120k mile car can ever be "mint" these cars have been used to varying degrees and often a 911 is "driven" as they should be.... I bought my 141k mile car when bought with both eyes open.. its far from mint and unless i drop 10k on it it never will be... its a daily...its driven and i'd rather be in it than any other boring everyday car...

As many have said owning a Porsche of any variety is not for the penny pinching!
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