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Hughb
Trainee


Joined: 15 Jul 2019
Posts: 57
Location: Somerset


PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:10 pm    Post subject: 2003 C2 front suspension refresh (non.M030) Reply with quote

I have previous posted seeking advice about the desirabilty of renewing some of my front suspension .... coffin arms etc. I had lots of interesting responses, even if not all in agreement!

The good weather would seem to be mostly over and I am thinking about this job, but its getting bigger! Service history tells me that the car had new front springs a few years ago. I am wondering if at some stage it has had a single shock absorber replaced, because the nearside is in good external condition and the driver's side is rusted to b*******. I know that's not necessarily an indication of condition but if I am going to do the job I am inclined to do it comprehensively.

Should I snap up some Bilstein B4's from Design911 which appear to be half the price of many other suppliers @£160 ea ... in which case can someone give some advice about how much of the fittings kit I really need.

At nearly 2 x £150ea for these fitting kits I am inclined to reuse existing where possible. New top mounts, nuts and ball bearing mounts, of course, but many of the other bits look entirely clean-upable (subject to inspection before removal). Anyone able to comment on the 'compensating plates' which come in two different sizes?

I have searched extensively on the forum for a definitive guide to removal/fitting, but cannot find all I need to know ... anyone willing to share the benefit of their experience?
 
  
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Hughb
Trainee


Joined: 15 Jul 2019
Posts: 57
Location: Somerset


PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Underwhelmed by the interest/response to the post I made in September, so I am going respond to my own post (!) with some new info and some updated queries.....

2003 C2 non-M030, 86k

I do not have any obvious faults with my suspension, no squeaks/clunks etc (well maybe a bit clunky over cobbles) but I feel the need to renew front coffin arms etc and all the research that I see recommends renewing shocks as they deteriorate over time.
Bilstein shocks are outrageously expensive (I have reviewed the dealer prices of Bilstein shocks [just happen to know someone with a Bilstein a/c] and in broad terms they seem to double the price for Porsche and halve the dealer discount).

There seems to be some deals around at the moment and I can buy Koni Special Active, 2x front, 2x rear, for £580 ... that’s way below Bilstein B4’s at £830. (I did not realise that D911 prices are plus VAT, so my enthusiasm for Bilstein, in my first post, is diminished).

..or I can buy a set of C2 Koni yellow for £790, still cheaper than Bilstein.

Can anyone comment on this deal .... yes I want to keep the price down, but absolutely not at the expense of fitting anything less than OE quality.

Anyone driving on Konis?

Anyone able to comment on my previous post about the fitting kits?
 
  
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fot0
Newbie


Joined: 03 Apr 2018
Posts: 28
Location: Thames Valley


PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cannot comment too much on the C2 kits. I tend to go for OEM where possible, unless you are going for track setups. I used Koni in the past many years ago and they improved original setup (non Porsche). Sure others can comment on Koni's. Personally I would go for Bilstein. However, new shocks will vastly improve tired shocks.

Not sure why one shock was changed in your first post as they should be done in pairs on axles. It is difficult to say what will need changing until you strip down. You may find the top mounts ok, but equally need to budget + alignment.

It is a good time to purchase with black friday deals, so would revisit some of your last shops for better deals. Sub £800 sounds pretty good to me. At the other end you are looking skyward of £2k
 
  
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NedHan79
Hockenheim


Joined: 08 Nov 2018
Posts: 652



PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve been going through my front suspension lately and although mine are m030 on my ‘98 c2, I give the strut tops a refresh. I opted for sachs top mounts which were £50-60 on eBay iirc. I also bought new bump stops at £40 odd I think. £100 down and hardly any farther on. I cleaned and greased the bearings to save buying more.
I can’t comment on konis or anything else but what I can say is that the small bits add up. It might be a good idea to look more at coil overs as you get new tops on some kits.
Again,no experience on this but it’d be worth opening your search a little.
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NedHan79
Hockenheim


Joined: 08 Nov 2018
Posts: 652



PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve been going through my front suspension lately and although mine are m030 on my ‘98 c2, I give the strut tops a refresh. I opted for sachs top mounts which were £50-60 on eBay iirc. I also bought new bump stops at £40 odd I think. £100 down and hardly any farther on. I cleaned and greased the bearings to save buying more.
I can’t comment on konis or anything else but what I can say is that the small bits add up. It might be a good idea to look more at coil overs as you get new tops on some kits.
Again,no experience on this but it’d be worth opening your search a little.
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NedHan79
Hockenheim


Joined: 08 Nov 2018
Posts: 652



PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for some reason I keep getting duplicate posts, I think it’s time for a new phone
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Hughb
Trainee


Joined: 15 Jul 2019
Posts: 57
Location: Somerset


PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there nobody driving on Konis out there? Are they a Porsche no-no or something?

I thought Koni were a good make (as if I would know!), and in price terms they can be even more expensive that Bilstein. Great claims are made for these 'Special Active' shocks but I can find very little independent corroboration/review.

NedHan79, yep, the 'small bits' really do add up, as I observed in my original post. I would certainly replace the top mounts as there is a rubber in there which must have degraded, but I am inclined to agree with you about the bearing,... cleaning and regreasing should be all they need unless there is obvious damage which I think I would know about already, if there was! Bump stop knackered... happily that and the cover are cheap to replace.

fot0, thank you for your comments, I am veering back towards OEM as the 'safer option'. I can't be sure that just one shock was replaced,... I am just speculating about three facts: 1) springs both replaced 5 years ago or so (have invoice) 2) driver-side shock more corroded, externally, than nearside and 3) top mount securing nuts (d/s) are a few mm moved from an earlier position.

...just putting a Coventry postcode in to satnav in case I need it!

ps absolutely aware of the necessity of a proper realignment once all is done.
 
  
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2998


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theres a couple on konis here, do a search. I am tempted.

Theres an ebay seller of konis thats a good price:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Koni-Special-Active-Shock-Absorber-Set-Front-Rear-for-Porsche-911-912-996/362377838670

£740, those are for standard ride height to 50mm lowered.

Eibach will do you the springs in whatever height you want.

I would go for them over the B4s
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 7309
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dunno why some retail parts places and indeed indys with their servicing costs insist on pricing ex VAT, given than we generally have to pay it!

Anyway, there is a fella here, hazzarelli, who has bought Koni special actives for his 996, but not fitted them yet... maybe he can give you feedback when he does?
http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=134647&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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Hughb
Trainee


Joined: 15 Jul 2019
Posts: 57
Location: Somerset


PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah ha... some has actually taken the plunge with Koni Special Active...
will definitely ask for some feed back. (thanks for pointing out Robertb)

Wasz ... correct me if I am wrong, but Carnewal seem to be doing the Koni SA at 675 euros, delivered ... that's £580 ... (howzat vs. your 'good price' of £740)!!
You mention springs in your post ... it appears (and you confirm, I think) that I could re-use my existing springs (non-M030) and remain at factory spec ride height.

I am working on the understanding that the universally agreed improvement is going to come from replacing the 'tired' bits, namely shocks + top mounts. As I say earlier my front springs have been replaced relatively recently....or is someone going to tell that springs get 'tired' as well?

Would still like to hear from anyone who has driven on Konis for a decent amount of time.
 
  
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 7309
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seem to recall Carnewal's prices need to have Belgian VAT added at 21%, so that's 816 Euros, or £700 at spot, depending on how generous your bank is.
_________________
"911- the guilt-free supercar"

Current: 2003 C4S Coupe, seal/black

Ex: '02 C4S Coupe, '96 993 Targa, '88 Carrera Sport Coupe
 
  
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2998


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robertb wrote:
I seem to recall Carnewal's prices need to have Belgian VAT added at 21%, so that's 816 Euros, or £700 at spot, depending on how generous your bank is.


yup

Hughb wrote:
Ah ha... some has actually taken the plunge with Koni Special Active...
will definitely ask for some feed back. (thanks for pointing out Robertb)

Wasz ... correct me if I am wrong, but Carnewal seem to be doing the Koni SA at 675 euros, delivered ... that's £580 ... (howzat vs. your 'good price' of £740)!!
You mention springs in your post ... it appears (and you confirm, I think) that I could re-use my existing springs (non-M030) and remain at factory spec ride height.

I am working on the understanding that the universally agreed improvement is going to come from replacing the 'tired' bits, namely shocks + top mounts. As I say earlier my front springs have been replaced relatively recently....or is someone going to tell that springs get 'tired' as well?

Would still like to hear from anyone who has driven on Konis for a decent amount of time.


"Koni Special Active" is the new name for their shocks, I don't think there is any difference to the older yellow non adjustable ones. I may be wrong.


Yes springs get tired, one of mine snapped! They work harden eventually and corrode (mine were 20 years old). If yours have been replaced then no problem crack on.

The original Bilstein shocks are likely to pass a chassid dynamometer test, I hear of people visiting centre gravity to have ancient shocks tested and they check out fine.

I replaced ALL the rubber bits and ball joints in my suspension, that involved buying all the arms and inner/outer track rods and engine / gearbox mounts. Made a fantastic difference.

autodoc will do you SACHS top mounts for £17, these are OE well the ones sent to me were - they have porsche numbers ground off.

I'm still running old shocks though because there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with them. I do have a low mileage m030 setup sat waiting for me to decide if I want that or a more standard setup. Tempted by m030 and 17" wheels at the moment.
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coullstar
Albert Park


Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 1634
Location: Aberdeen/Torphins


PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be interesting to hear if the Koni active dampers work.
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 7309
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I apparently have variants of the FSDs on my Mercedes CLS. I like them, has a surprisingly firm ride for what is supposedly a luxo-barge.
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