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AP90
Nürburgring


Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 377
Location: Cornwall UK


PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:02 pm    Post subject: 993 2S at Williams Crawford Reply with quote

Thought this might be of interest, I quite like the Fuchs

https://www.williamscrawford.co.uk/listings/porsche-911-993-carrera-2-s-manual-coupe-1997/


They also had a really nice Turbo 997 (black Tip), not a fan of the newer cars but thought it looked great



No affiliation but they do work on my car.............when I can afford it!!
 
  
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jonttt
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 6130
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, how nicely has that been modded worship

No mileage listed though Hand .......I presume there is only one reason for that....its high Question
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1997 Porsche 911 993 C4S My Journal
2011 Porsche 987.2 Boxster Black Edition My Journal
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cableguy
Watkins Glen


Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 2008
Location: North Yorkshire


PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonttt wrote:
Wow, how nicely has that been modded worship

No mileage listed though Hand .......I presume there is only one reason for that....its high Question


I agree, some nice subtle mods certainly make it stand out. Fuchs look great against silver paintwork and houndstooth seat centres look good too but a shame they're not hardbacks.

Click on the homepage and mileage is shown at 70,177miles. Wink

£90k Surprised Will be interesting to see how long it takes to sell.

C.
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jonttt
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, mileage is the “right” amount ie too high to be a garage queen but low enough to drive a bit and not affect value Thumb
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Zingari
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 12899
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been messed about with and is overpriced Bandit

Border Reivers have got a 'straight' one with official hardback seats in. 46k on the clock and less money Rolling Eyes

The 119k C4S up at £65k is still hanging about Floor
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Fil-Ski
Newbie


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 25



PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any idea what the fitted stereo system is?
 
  
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Counter Of Beans
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 10 May 2018
Posts: 333
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure it is a very nice car, although the wheels aren't to my taste. And I hear that Williams Crawford sell quality vehicles.
But.........£90k, seriously? Yes I know it's got the wide body and that seems to carry an absurd premium in the market, but it's not done "garage queen" miles and it's not 100% original either.

Then again, I do find 993 prices confusing. You can get a cherished C2 manual with a huge history file, private sale, for under £40k, right up to a C4S at Chappell for £110k. And that's before you factor in tip / targa / turbo / cab / RS variants. Or "RS homage" cars, whatever they may be!

And I have noticed some cars that are on sale for yonks - there's a C2S in Bridport advertised at £80k that hasn't moved, for instance. Anyway, it'll be interesting to see if Williams Crawford sell this example; anyone on here interested?
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AP90
Nürburgring


Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 377
Location: Cornwall UK


PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fil-Ski wrote:
Any idea what the fitted stereo system is?


I think it's a Porsche "classic" radio/Nav/Bluetooth player
 
  
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Zingari
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 12899
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fil-Ski wrote:
Any idea what the fitted stereo system is?


Porsche navigation available from main dealer. This should be v2, v1 was cack and presumably v2 is the same. Screen too small and too far away from the driver and it's a lot of dough
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Luddite
Nürburgring


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
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Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zingari and of course Counter of beans, for me you guys bring a sense of realism to this forum when typing of real world vehicle evaluation as opposed to "investment" vehicles ideals, the latter seems to be at risk given all that is going on in the UK and elsewhere at the moment....?

I looked at a 3.2 on the dealer mentioned web site... £POA.. Jeez next to SOR and the escapades of the trade in times past, I do wonder how many folk still have loads of loose cash to splash freely, though I guess there must be some...?

House prices seem to be the basis for confidence in many UK market assessments, how many of us get into debt to buy a house, hoping that if the worst comes to the worst we can sell it on and perhaps downsize to exist to some degree..? Lots of horror stories of negative equity in times past..? If we are fortunate enough to avoid such trauma, perhaps in time we add a special car in the garage, thinking it may now be the first line of defense should things get a bit tight...?

I suspect getting the foundation as near to rock solid as possible in house buying may be careful consideration as to location, location, location, and if you got that right spending more cash on home improvements does not necessarily guarantee an increase in value of the property relative to the amount spent, and can even detract from the value of the property...?

As for motor vehicles I suspect the base line is condition, condition, condition..? Advancing from that point, then maintenance records are nice to have, as for modifications, a bit like home extensions it seems the market can become jittery...?

Call it project fear if you will, but having seen economists predictions of circa 30% fall in house evaluation predicted relative to Brexit alone... I do wonder at the future value of "Classic cars" with all that the media is currently hitting the screens with right at the moment relative to EV, climate change and so much else...?

We all need a house of some sort, but do we all need a "Classic" vehicle.... ?

I am no economist but it seems most markets exist on turn over and the quicker the turn over the better...? The housing market perhaps even in London seems to have slowed...? As for the classic car market and it`s future...we have seen a few miserable attempts at survival posted here.. hmm..?

I suspect that 30 bags would be my personal limit at the moment for a fun car... Floor
 
  
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cableguy
Watkins Glen


Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 2008
Location: North Yorkshire


PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most 993's will need some serious cash throwing at them however shiny they look on the forecourt.
Rear chassis legs, front scuttle, sills and wing edges will nearly all need attention and that's before you consider refreshing suspension components which can easily swallow thousands in the blink of an eye...
Refreshing the lights & lenses can cost £1k+ for example.

Sweet spot IMO is a NB C2 Manual as a base car. Obviously the Coupe will command a small premium but Convertible & Targa good options if you like the wind in your locks... Reasonable cars still at reasonable money but put some cash aside for maintenance.

I've owned WB & NB and as a drivers car a pre varioram NB with the closer ratio 6 speed is the sweet spot. Thumb

C.
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jonttt
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hand 993’s are relatively cheap classic cars to maintain at this end of the classic car market. <£5k at most and you can get suspension, scuttle and chassis legs sorted (if they are indeed required, most scuttles have been done by now).

There will always be plenty of cash available in the UK, no matter what Brexit effect and people will always want something nice, relatively inexpensive to keep and relatively easy to dispose of .......thats what happened in the “recession” back in 2010 ie classic car prices rose. It’s boom times with easy money to be made in stocks and shares that car prices suffer, not recessions. “Recessions” in this century are much different than recessions in the past. There is much more disposable wealth and that will always be there.

As stated in other threads there are always cars that stick and give ammunition for the doomsayers that they are not selling, you never here of the ones that are for sale and sell quickly, like the recent C4S with average miles that went for >£100k

Get used to the 993 market, it is the norm now, has been for the past 6 years you know Grin

The car is priced about right, tastefull mods, “nice mileage”, reputable dealer, nice car and a safe place for someone to put some spare cash Thumb
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Zingari
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 12899
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonttt wrote:
Hand 993’s are relatively cheap classic cars to maintain at this end of the classic car market. <£5k at most and you can get suspension, scuttle and chassis legs sorted (if they are indeed required, most scuttles have been done by now).


They're even cheaper to run if you don't drive them and put them in a carcoon
Rolling Eyes

jonttt wrote:
As stated in other threads there are always cars that stick and give ammunition for the doomsayers that they are not selling, you never here of the ones that are for sale and sell quickly, like the recent C4S with average miles that went for >£100k


I'd call custard on that. But then again there are those for who money is no object and is happy to write off the over-inflated premium. If he's on here I've got a lighthly used Elephant's Blurter for sale Thumb
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C4Silver
Silverstone


Joined: 14 Aug 2019
Posts: 139



PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There’s no doubt that 993’s are special cars and hold a certain appeal to those of us including myself who were driving around at the time in lesser vehicles shall I say ? Not wanting to upset any one by that statement, but gazing on as I did in the 90’s at something which was way out of my price range.

For me that amount at £90k is the end of the rainbow price for some one who needs and wants something to fill a space who’s got an itch to scratch.

As has been said above there are better examples around that are for sale including private examples for a lot less money. I think these vehicles will continue to rise in money obviously the special ones will always attract a premium but this isn’t one of them, I wouldn’t buy it for £60K Not that that’s any market indicator, it’s just my opinion based on buying several slightly older vehicles, keeping them for 10 years or so and making a lot of money out of them.
 
  
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Luddite
Nürburgring


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 438
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jonttt, I suspect EVERYTHING is relative... (-: I think the take off point for "Classics" in more recent times may have been due to the drop in bank interest rates, the combination of easy money for spenders using cheap debt and those with cash reserves thought to invest in something solid in the garage that might provide both an element of fun as well as perhaps covering it`s own costs in time if not actually returning a profit..?

Of course if you spent circa 11K on an SC say 25 years ago and was selling it today for £30k that looks like profit, but running costs of a garage queen aside, what could £!!K buy back then compared with £30k today... Yeah going to quit here as my head hurts..(-:

The 993 at the dealership mentioned looks to be the business..and has benefit in that the dealership seems to have a good rep and considerable Porsche experience..?

I wish I had your confidence re the levels of cash swilling about in the UK after Brexit, but then as I typed I am NO economist. My lady wife has an honours degree in that subject and business management.. In our younger days I remarked on her free use of her credit card in company, and another of our lady friends piped up jocqularly "her degree determines she fully understands her indebtedness" (-:

For me the 3.2 Carrera would seem to have the best potential for longevity at minimum costs if a 911 is the desired option.... of course corrosion is an issue and perhaps more so than a younger car such as the 993..? Of the air cooled variety the 3.2 has some advantage in it`s minimal electronic package without the electro/mechanical wear and tear of K Jetronic likely found on the earlier 911`s...? With twelve plugs, oil leakage and complexities of the advanced suspension system of the 964-on later Porsches, the 3.2 seems to stack up quite well ....? But I still hanker after a 964 or 993 to some extent while still looking at the last of the 997`s which may suit the more ...err.. mature where parking sensors and the like can come in handy....(-: Go figure. Floor

C4 silver, I wonder if you would be buying into an ICE classic today with the hope of real returns in ten years when you might intend to sell it for real profit.. Question
 
  
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Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 10 May 2018
Posts: 333
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I was spending £60k - £90k on a 993 at a specialist like WC or JZM then I'd want to know that the "under the skin" jobs had been done - things like refurbed distributors, HT leads, exhaust heatshields, windscreen scuttle rust, engine mounts, clutch and so on.
Perhaps the car at WC has had all that done, perhaps it hasn't. If it hasn't then it's poor value in my opinion.
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tyinsky
Hockenheim


Joined: 29 Jun 2012
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Location: London, UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm toying the the prospect of selling mine. Not sure I will ever come close to the level of enjoyment I've had from it driving it across America. Will see how I feel in a few months. Question
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AP90
Nürburgring


Joined: 25 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm uncertain as to the future of classics with ICE's given the way the electric cars are being pushed on us all.............
 
  
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Zingari
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 12899
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AP90 wrote:
I'm uncertain as to the future of classics with ICE's given the way the electric cars are being pushed on us all.............


Smoke and mirrors chum. It's a long way off and far enough into the long grass. UK will never have the infrastructure to maintain a high number of EV. Even now there are I believe 4 different types of plugs, 4 x different companies running various charging stations all requiring different registration etc and then a lot seem to be occupied all day by workers/shop staff or vandalised Rolling Eyes

For me the 964 was the 'last of the traditional styled air-cooled 911" Grin
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jonttt
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
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Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zingari wrote:
jonttt wrote:
Hand 993’s are relatively cheap classic cars to maintain at this end of the classic car market. <£5k at most and you can get suspension, scuttle and chassis legs sorted (if they are indeed required, most scuttles have been done by now).


They're even cheaper to run if you don't drive them and put them in a carcoon
Rolling Eyes

jonttt wrote:
As stated in other threads there are always cars that stick and give ammunition for the doomsayers that they are not selling, you never here of the ones that are for sale and sell quickly, like the recent C4S with average miles that went for >£100k


I'd call custard on that. But then again there are those for who money is no object and is happy to write off the over-inflated premium. If he's on here I've got a lighthly used Elephant's Blurter for sale Thumb


https://www.chappellsportscars.com/used-cars/porsche-911-993-3-6-c4s-aerokit-coupe/

Sold quickly, sticker price was £109,995 Bandit
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