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Zen1
Newbie


Joined: 16 Jul 2019
Posts: 22



PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:30 am    Post subject: Active spoiler not operational Reply with quote

Hi

Just picked up a lovely 2003 3.6 Targa 996 and have found the rear spoiler is not operational.
I've just found the microswitches in the fuse box that are supposed to operate it manually but that won't work either.

I've established the 15A fuse and the micro switches are not the issue.

Does anybody have the diagram for the rear spoiler so I can test it with a separate 12v supply or alternatively I've read i may need to remove the rear seats to check the up/down relays. Is there a tutorial for removing the seats. I've looked but cannot find.

Many Thanks
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 15892
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to 911uk

There's a diagram and some info in this thread that might help.

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=131668&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=996+spoiler
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2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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Zen1
Newbie


Joined: 16 Jul 2019
Posts: 22



PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got to the relays and will take them into work tomorrow to check out.

Thanks for the diagram. I have downloaded all of the workshop manuals so I'm assuming it'll show me how to get to the spoiler workings. I believe there is a pump somewhere that is responsible for the spoiler operation. I couldn't see it.

I can see what looks like two motor actuators but that is all.

Much appreciated so far .......
 
  
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grbspeedster
Montreal


Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 597
Location: Rugby


PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yours is fully electric, only the turbo has the hydraulic pump. Think yours is a lot cheaper to sort Thumb
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Geoff
996 X50 turbo cab
 
  
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Zen1
Newbie


Joined: 16 Jul 2019
Posts: 22



PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are two units on the left and right labeled like this




I cant find much info on them


There is a silver pipe running from each under the black cover but i'm not sure i can remove this as these pipes may bend.



Ive tried unplugging the 12way connector but the damn thing wont budge
and its so tight i can barely get my hands in. nooo
 
  
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maldren
Suzuka


Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 1139



PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine started sticking last year so I decided I was going to have to take it all apart and clean it. As it was halfway down, I gave it a thorough dose of lubricant, I can't remember whether it was WD40 (yes I know it's not really a lubricant) or GT85. It's been fine ever since...
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Mike
2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
 
  
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Zen1
Newbie


Joined: 16 Jul 2019
Posts: 22



PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I ask if you were able to remove the black cover easily enough to access everything and where did you spray lubricant?

The silver pipes on both sides may bend easily and I don't want to end up with more problems if I bend one so am reluctant to pull everything apart.
 
  
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maldren
Suzuka


Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 1139



PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sprayed it down the tubes where the raise/lower 'struts' go.
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2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7176
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok so it doesn't work at all ..

Couple of things off hand ..

Check fuse D7 .. so the fourth row of fuses down from the top and right seven .. yup i'm sure you know but better to be safe .

Relays .. more importantly if the raise relay has failed then it wont go up .. swop relays 3 and 9 on the relay board 2 ( under the carpet and behind the rear seats )

Have a look for any water whilst your there .. it is a Targa after all .

It could have been coded off .. unlikely unless it used to have a fixed spoiler but its still something that would stop it working .

The wiring plug , there is a clip that holds it to the body work .. use a mirror and a light to have a look , lift this up and the plug will release from the body , you still have to press the tab though .

We can get more involved with bridging out the raise relay and checking feeds if you wish but atm i'm unsure how keen you are to self fix so i've just listed the obvious faults so far .
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Zen1
Newbie


Joined: 16 Jul 2019
Posts: 22



PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Checked relays were functioning with an external 12v supply on coils and also checked continuity of both normally closed and normally open contacts.
Both read as good as zero ohms.

So that's relays, Footwell microswitches and 15A Spoiler Fuse all ok.
No evidence of water or dampness anywhere either. Everything is dry.

So I guess I need to prove the pump is good ?
Are they hydraulic rams then?

This 12 way wiring connector I couldn't get apart very easily at all.

edit: Just watched a video where it says the car needs to have been started to manually operate the spoiler. I haven't actually tried this and cant right now as im not with the car. If this is the case I'm goint to feel a right eejit. Grin

Last edited by Zen1 on Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:32 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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grbspeedster
Montreal


Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 597
Location: Rugby


PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No hydraulics, they are electric operated on all but the turbo.
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Geoff
996 X50 turbo cab
 
  
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Zen1
Newbie


Joined: 16 Jul 2019
Posts: 22



PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well who feels stupid now ??
All I needed was the keys in the ignition never mind needing to start the damn thing. nooo

I do however hear a knocking noise for around 5 seconds when the spoiler opens fully.
I now get active spoiler failure after each time the spoiler gets to top position.

No doubt something I may have done when attempting to get to the inner mechanics yesterday.

Before I go messing again, there isn't some easy reset procedure for the spoiler I'm missing is there ?

Thanks for helping an idiot out...... Confused
 
  
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steve1
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 343


2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to side-track is my 2002 cab electric spoiler as well.

Steve
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7176
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think i can safely say none of us would have guessed the ignition wasn't on Very Happy .. moving swiftly on ..

Turbos have a hydraulic system .. non Turbo and it's an electric motor which is what yours is .

From your description then unless you have loosened off the entire cable system then it's nothing you have done .

It's a single motor .. a gear with a cable each side of this gear in a channel to drive each side of the spoiler.

If it's clicking then its slipping .. it's not moving the cables far enough to activate the micro switches for up , down etc .. it's just not reaching them.

Basically .. IMHO its fubar .

Link here but it doesn't list 12 which seems to be the part ..

https://www.deroure.com/diagrams.asp?TBL=2639&MAK=3&MDL=25&SMA=0&SMO=0&ST=&SC=0

The cables themselves run in a plastic tube / casing .. it may be possible to strip , clean and get it working again .. if not its fubar and needs replacing im afraid .
_________________
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My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target see Here

Thank you all so Very much .

She's not going until july 2020 though .



Mechanic

7pm - 9pm

Now At An Indy.
 
  
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Zen1
Newbie


Joined: 16 Jul 2019
Posts: 22



PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When the spoiler comes down its perfect. Nice and smooth without issues.

When it goes up again, its all good until it hits what I'm assuming it Top position. It's here where it sounds like its continuing to drive upwards.

Could it be the top micro switch? Are these micro switches essentially there as Top/Bottom Limit switches?

Next question, are they easy to get to?
 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7176
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your pretty much into a full strip down to see what going on .. so black metal panel out .. spoiler cable tubes and plastic drive assembly removed and opened up .

Working from memory there are x3 micro switches .. 2 for the up / down and one for the high level brake light .

If it makes a noise then as said .. its slipping .. as to why then you need to pull it apart to find out if its a repair or a replacement .

Manuals are here ..

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=83491

I would assume body external but i haven't looked , either way that's the entire Porsche instructions there for this model.

Spoiler is no different from a 98 to an 04 .
_________________
.

My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target see Here

Thank you all so Very much .

She's not going until july 2020 though .



Mechanic

7pm - 9pm

Now At An Indy.
 
  
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Zen1
Newbie


Joined: 16 Jul 2019
Posts: 22



PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yesterday I got a chance to strip down the complete active spoiler drive assembly and have learnt a lot about the inner workings of it.

All the wiring checked out and all 3 micro switches were fine.

The reason why my spoiler never got to top position and reached the final limit switch is because a few of the teeth in the plastic tracks have worn (see pic).



So the chances of getting hold of these is near impossible Im guessing?
They're both identical and are stamped 82822.

May ask a few friends if theres any chance of 3d printing them but that could prove difficult.

Failing that could I fit a fixed spoiler and how difficult is this?

Many thanks for all input so far......
 
  
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Zen1
Newbie


Joined: 16 Jul 2019
Posts: 22



PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I have successfully modified the teeth in the rack and pinion assembly so that both pieces slide end to end now.

I've attached a short video so anybody with similar issues can see what is meant to happen with both pieces needing to slide end to end so the spoiler fully extends and retracts.

 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7176
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would be the part that was making the noise .. its slipping .

Nice job on a repair through .. i would have had to replace it .

learning is why we do this job though .. i learn every day Thumb
_________________
.

My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target see Here

Thank you all so Very much .

She's not going until july 2020 though .



Mechanic

7pm - 9pm

Now At An Indy.
 
  
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Griffter
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 22 May 2016
Posts: 343



PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zen1 wrote:
Well I have successfully modified the teeth in the rack and pinion assembly so that both pieces slide end to end now.

I've attached a short video so anybody with similar issues can see what is meant to happen with both pieces needing to slide end to end so the spoiler fully extends and retracts.



Good work. How did you repair the teeth? Epoxy resin or something?
 
  
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