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Fulla
Imola


Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 770
Location: Ealing


PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:07 pm    Post subject: (Thinking)Selling the C4S for a 997 GT3 Reply with quote

After 10 years of enjoying my C4S I am seriously considering letting someone else enjoy it and finally scratching my GT3 itch. I haven't used it much in the last year or so but that hasn't stopped me spending money on it!
For the 997 I need to try both the 3.6 and 3.8 to see which I prefer. Not many about at present but I suspect some more will enter the market after the summer.
I would be interested to hear from anyone that has made the move. I'd also like to hear via DM on thoughts of values and the best place to list the car. Interestingly I have heard a few cars are getting snapped up overseas which doesn't surprise me with the state of sterling!

My thoughts are to list it either in Sept or wait until I get back from my holidays ins Sept and list in October. Yesterday I started going through my service history so that I could start pulling details together to write my war and peace advert...

Some details on the car:
1996 C4S in Midnight Blue with provance/dark blue interior.
165,000 miles, I got the car with just over 70k.
Last year I had all the rust removed and then had the interior and exterior detailed with G-techniq. A new screen was installed by Paul at Glastec at this time as well.
It has just come back from CofG so drives as a 993 should, prior to this 2 rear Bilsteins had been replaced. 1 was leaking so I replaced both.
It also sounds like a 993 should as I have Cargraphic mufflers and 200 cell cats.
It's had a recent major service at Tognola who has serviced the car and replaced worn items when needed for the last 10 years. New Michelins just fitted all around as well so whoever does take her from me won't need to do anymore then enjoy the car.
There will be a long list of the work/subtle upgrades I have done plus the service history but the above gives a flavour.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts and I am getting excited at potentially having my 1st new car in 10 years.
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spongebob squarepants
Zolder


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 5595
Location: Manchester and Iraq


PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:18 am    Post subject: Re: (Thinking)Selling the C4S for a 997 GT3 Reply with quote

Fulla wrote:
After 10 years of enjoying my C4S I am seriously considering letting someone else enjoy it and finally scratching my GT3 itch. I haven't used it much in the last year or so but that hasn't stopped me spending money on it!
For the 997 I need to try both the 3.6 and 3.8 to see which I prefer. Not many about at present but I suspect some more will enter the market after the summer.
I would be interested to hear from anyone that has made the move. I'd also like to hear via DM on thoughts of values and the best place to list the car. Interestingly I have heard a few cars are getting snapped up overseas which doesn't surprise me with the state of sterling!

My thoughts are to list it either in Sept or wait until I get back from my holidays ins Sept and list in October. Yesterday I started going through my service history so that I could start pulling details together to write my war and peace advert...

Some details on the car:
1996 C4S in Midnight Blue with provance/dark blue interior.
165,000 miles, I got the car with just over 70k.
Last year I had all the rust removed and then had the interior and exterior detailed with G-techniq. A new screen was installed by Paul at Glastec at this time as well.
It has just come back from CofG so drives as a 993 should, prior to this 2 rear Bilsteins had been replaced. 1 was leaking so I replaced both.
It also sounds like a 993 should as I have Cargraphic mufflers and 200 cell cats.
It's had a recent major service at Tognola who has serviced the car and replaced worn items when needed for the last 10 years. New Michelins just fitted all around as well so whoever does take her from me won't need to do anymore then enjoy the car.
There will be a long list of the work/subtle upgrades I have done plus the service history but the above gives a flavour.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts and I am getting excited at potentially having my 1st new car in 10 years.


Big yes to the GT3! But don’t tell Jonttt Grin re the 993 and value I think the most important part for any new owner due to the mileage would be engine work in your ownership, or prior to your ownership Dont know Thumb
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Zingari
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 12903
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having moved on into the GT club I'm of the view life's too short not to try different cars but for me, space and cash meant I couldn't really keep the old air cooled as well.

For the Illuminati the mileage on your car will be the elephant in the room because buyers are drawn to what the odometer says rather than the whole package Rolling Eyes Congratulations for putting so many miles on it in your ownership thumbsup

That said, didn't Bernie take his 185k engine apart to have a look? I recall there were no issues adding weight to the argument these engines can do 2ook+ without major work. My Jubi had 130k+ when I sold it and the buyers Indy remarked he'd never seen a car as good indicating if used correctly on regular long trips they're all good.

993 sales are not dependent on when to sell in the year but GT cars seem to get advertised more over winter as you suggest so waiting to find the right one is not far away.

Before Jonttt dons the rose tinted goggles and does a Mystic Meg on a valuation Rolling Eyes have a look at what prices are going for to gauge the market. Take note that a lot of high priced 993 don't sell and unless there's some confidence in the history (some cars have detailed work threads on here for example) most 'new' buyers will want the reassurance of buying from a dealer.

Put an advert on here first then buyers can see your posting history etc Thumb
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FZP
Estoril


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 3664
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do it.
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Nij4
Trainee


Joined: 01 May 2014
Posts: 72



PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am considering the same, but may even consider a 993 c4s for a bit as cost to change lower, but ultimately want a 997.2 Gt3. I need to get rid of my 993 cab and am doing the same to get a gauge of the market, but as most know cabs demand not as strong. I do think the 997 will be a better blend of classic and modern, and looks ace.
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jonttt
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 6136
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Despite Zingari’s comments 993’s are selling well. Yes there are a handful which stick on the market for whatever reason which helps people justify the “they are not selling” comments but many sell so quickly people don’t even realise they where for sale Rolling Eyes

Eg an 80k mile C4S has just sold for £108k (sticker price so May have been slightly less) and was not for sale for long. C4S do not come up for sale very often in the UK, there where many less than the 2S and the fact none are tips help keep prices up when they do hit the market.

Yes mileage will affect value but they are still a desirable and rare car so don’t forget that Thumb

I won’t comment on my thoughts re GT cars for road use Grin
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Fulla
Imola


Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 770
Location: Ealing


PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will be posting it on here for sale,just need to see at what price. It’ll take some time to write up it’s history but at least potential purchasers will see it has been cared for.
The mileage ofcourse will put some off but an inspection and drive will show that it doesn’t show it’s miles.
I am getting excited about the prospect of a GT car just not the tire kickers.
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Fulla
Imola


Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 770
Location: Ealing


PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonttt wrote:
Despite Zingari’s comments 993’s are selling well. Yes there are a handful which stick on the market for whatever reason which helps people justify the “they are not selling” comments but many sell so quickly people don’t even realise they where for sale Rolling Eyes

Eg an 80k mile C4S has just sold for £108k (sticker price so May have been slightly less) and was not for sale for long. C4S do not come up for sale very often in the UK, there where many less than the 2S and the fact none are tips help keep prices up when they do hit the market.

Yes mileage will affect value but they are still a desirable and rare car so don’t forget that Thumb

I won’t comment on my thoughts re GT cars for road use Grin


From memory i believe the UK had 181 C4S cars so they are rare. Trying to find a price to advertise will not doubt give me some sleepless nights.
Appreciate the GT’s aren’t everyones cuppa for a road car, but i will try some other ideas before i part with my ££. I need the rear space so 2 seaters are out and i find the circle always leads back to the GT.
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Zingari
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 12903
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in for 25 bags if you need to move it quick Thumb

Hand I wouldn't factor £108k for a 80k miler to any 'average' price swingometer. That had to be (a) very special, and (b) bought by someone who is not afraid of losing his dough. Most likely lighting Cuban cigars with £20 notes before they go plastic as his want to get rid of it what

Before I saw this '96 C4S with 119k at £65k full and complete service history with a dealer I was thinking £60k might be your ballpark Dont know and my barometer was not far off.
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911TEL
Albert Park


Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 1529
Location: Inverness & Kazakhstan

2011 Porsche 997 Turbo S

PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fulla wrote:
jonttt wrote:
Despite Zingari’s comments 993’s are selling well. Yes there are a handful which stick on the market for whatever reason which helps people justify the “they are not selling” comments but many sell so quickly people don’t even realise they where for sale Rolling Eyes

Eg an 80k mile C4S has just sold for £108k (sticker price so May have been slightly less) and was not for sale for long. C4S do not come up for sale very often in the UK, there where many less than the 2S and the fact none are tips help keep prices up when they do hit the market.

Yes mileage will affect value but they are still a desirable and rare car so don’t forget that Thumb

I won’t comment on my thoughts re GT cars for road use Grin


From memory i believe the UK had 181 C4S cars so they are rare. Trying to find a price to advertise will not doubt give me some sleepless nights.
Appreciate the GT’s aren’t everyones cuppa for a road car, but i will try some other ideas before i part with my ££. I need the rear space so 2 seaters are out and i find the circle always leads back to the GT.


GT3’s are all 2 seats , not homologated/ type approved for rear seats , the insurance companies would void insurance , ok if you just need some baggage space inside but if 2 seats are required then GT cars are not the answer ...
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Fulla
Imola


Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 770
Location: Ealing


PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zingari wrote:
I'm in for 25 bags if you need to move it quick Thumb

Hand I wouldn't factor £108k for a 80k miler to any 'average' price swingometer. That had to be (a) very special, and (b) bought by someone who is not afraid of losing his dough. Most likely lighting Cuban cigars with £20 notes before they go plastic as his want to get rid of it what

Before I saw this '96 C4S with 119k at £65k full and complete service history with a dealer I was thinking £60k might be your ballpark Dont know and my barometer was not far off.

For the time being that dealer car seems to set the barometer as you say.
Off for a week now to the US for wrk so will give the value some thought and look to put the advert live on my return.
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Fulla
Imola


Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 770
Location: Ealing


PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

911TEL wrote:
Fulla wrote:
jonttt wrote:
Despite Zingari’s comments 993’s are selling well. Yes there are a handful which stick on the market for whatever reason which helps people justify the “they are not selling” comments but many sell so quickly people don’t even realise they where for sale Rolling Eyes

Eg an 80k mile C4S has just sold for £108k (sticker price so May have been slightly less) and was not for sale for long. C4S do not come up for sale very often in the UK, there where many less than the 2S and the fact none are tips help keep prices up when they do hit the market.

Yes mileage will affect value but they are still a desirable and rare car so don’t forget that Thumb

I won’t comment on my thoughts re GT cars for road use Grin


From memory i believe the UK had 181 C4S cars so they are rare. Trying to find a price to advertise will not doubt give me some sleepless nights.
Appreciate the GT’s aren’t everyones cuppa for a road car, but i will try some other ideas before i part with my ££. I need the rear space so 2 seaters are out and i find the circle always leads back to the GT.


GT3’s are all 2 seats , not homologated/ type approved for rear seats , the insurance companies would void insurance , ok if you just need some baggage space inside but if 2 seats are required then GT cars are not the answer ...

It’s not for a human...it’s my 4 legged friend who would need to go in the back..
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tyinsky
Hockenheim


Joined: 29 Jun 2012
Posts: 707
Location: London, UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sounds a really nice car Fulla. Good luck with the sale if you decide that's what you are going to do. 997 GT3 is a great car, and when I bought my 993 Carrera 2S it was between one of those in the whittling down process. Just be sure about it as I regretted the sale of my lovely 964 a long time, it only stopped hurting when the 993 arrived.



As for build numbers, the Turbo S. RS, and 993 S Tiptronic are the rarities. 4S and 2S manuals have roughly the same build numbers? There are less cabrios than either of them. Hand
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Magic919
Suzuka


Joined: 05 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rear seats in a 997.1 GT3 has been done before. Apparently type approval is 4 seats and homologated as a 2 seater. A couple of Insurers offered cover at the time.
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911TEL
Albert Park


Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 1529
Location: Inverness & Kazakhstan

2011 Porsche 997 Turbo S

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fulla wrote:
911TEL wrote:
Fulla wrote:
jonttt wrote:
Despite Zingari’s comments 993’s are selling well. Yes there are a handful which stick on the market for whatever reason which helps people justify the “they are not selling” comments but many sell so quickly people don’t even realise they where for sale Rolling Eyes

Eg an 80k mile C4S has just sold for £108k (sticker price so May have been slightly less) and was not for sale for long. C4S do not come up for sale very often in the UK, there where many less than the 2S and the fact none are tips help keep prices up when they do hit the market.

Yes mileage will affect value but they are still a desirable and rare car so don’t forget that Thumb

I won’t comment on my thoughts re GT cars for road use Grin


From memory i believe the UK had 181 C4S cars so they are rare. Trying to find a price to advertise will not doubt give me some sleepless nights.
Appreciate the GT’s aren’t everyones cuppa for a road car, but i will try some other ideas before i part with my ££. I need the rear space so 2 seaters are out and i find the circle always leads back to the GT.


GT3’s are all 2 seats , not homologated/ type approved for rear seats , the insurance companies would void insurance , ok if you just need some baggage space inside but if 2 seats are required then GT cars are not the answer ...

It’s not for a human...it’s my 4 legged friend who would need to go in the back..


That simplifies it then , just a Doggie restraint required.... not sure if Porsche ever considered our Four legged friends in the Type approval process....
Grin
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911TEL
Albert Park


Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 1529
Location: Inverness & Kazakhstan

2011 Porsche 997 Turbo S

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Magic919 wrote:
Rear seats in a 997.1 GT3 has been done before. Apparently type approval is 4 seats and homologated as a 2 seater. A couple of Insurers offered cover at the time.


Magig...

Interesting, that is news to me … I approached My OPC regarding fitting rear seats in the rear of my 997 gen 1 and they were not forthcoming … interesting ….but a bit disappointing ( historically for me ) if this is the case …

Thumb

OP … you will not be disappointed with either Gen 1 or Gen 2 either is a great car , gen 2 just a bit more refined and more power....
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jonttt
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 6136
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tyinsky wrote:
.........

As for build numbers, the Turbo S. RS, and 993 S Tiptronic are the rarities. 4S and 2S manuals have roughly the same build numbers? There are less cabrios than either of them. Hand


Hand you are looking at Worldwide production numbers ....... in C16 UK RHD spec the rarity order goes (from memory)....

GT2
Turbo S
RS
C4S (all manual)
2S (manual)
2S (tiptronic)
others

the important thing to the OP is that there where considerably less 4S than 2S in the UK (it was the opposite for the ROW) Wink
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nickpan
Trainee


Joined: 30 May 2016
Posts: 56



PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonttt wrote:
tyinsky wrote:
.........

As for build numbers, the Turbo S. RS, and 993 S Tiptronic are the rarities. 4S and 2S manuals have roughly the same build numbers? There are less cabrios than either of them. Hand


Hand you are looking at Worldwide production numbers ....... in C16 UK RHD spec the rarity order goes (from memory)....

GT2
Turbo S
RS
C4S (all manual)
2S (manual)
2S (tiptronic)
others

the important thing to the OP is that there where considerably less 4S than 2S in the UK (it was the opposite for the ROW) Wink


The 2S manual at Ashgood with 128k on the odo sold for 57 2 months ago.
 
  
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Albionmuz
Montreal


Joined: 28 Oct 2016
Posts: 599
Location: West Sussex


PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonttt wrote:
tyinsky wrote:
.........

As for build numbers, the Turbo S. RS, and 993 S Tiptronic are the rarities. 4S and 2S manuals have roughly the same build numbers? There are less cabrios than either of them. Hand


Hand you are looking at Worldwide production numbers ....... in C16 UK RHD spec the rarity order goes (from memory)....

GT2
Turbo S
RS
C4S (all manual)
2S (manual)
2S (tiptronic)
others

the important thing to the OP is that there where considerably less 4S than 2S in the UK (it was the opposite for the ROW) Wink


350 odd manual RHD Targas makes them very rare
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Fulla
Imola


Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 770
Location: Ealing


PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nickpan wrote:
jonttt wrote:
tyinsky wrote:
.........

As for build numbers, the Turbo S. RS, and 993 S Tiptronic are the rarities. 4S and 2S manuals have roughly the same build numbers? There are less cabrios than either of them. Hand


Hand you are looking at Worldwide production numbers ....... in C16 UK RHD spec the rarity order goes (from memory)....

GT2
Turbo S
RS
C4S (all manual)
2S (manual)
2S (tiptronic)
others

the important thing to the OP is that there where considerably less 4S than 2S in the UK (it was the opposite for the ROW) Wink


The 2S manual at Ashgood with 128k on the odo sold for 57 2 months ago.

That is good to know,thank you.
I am sure the 181 C4S figure was correct for C16. Either way most 993’s are rare these days.
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