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jonttt
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 6136
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just take the view that you cannot ignore the elephant in the room and so long as a buyer goes into ownership with the eyes wide open then they are awesome cars.

That is based on personal experience of a very good friend who bought a gorgeous 997.1 C2S, he later found out about the engine issues and took out a hartech service plan, there was nothing wrong with his car but it played on his mind to the extend that he sold it 6 months later, it ruined his whole ownership experience and he swore he would never own a Porsche again.

To me, unfortunately it takes a certain mentality to own one without the issues ruining the experience, I could not own one and I know Porsches pretty well, but others can and enjoy everything else the car has to offer. I can fully understand how those owners get frustrated by the constant reference to the problems but that is in effect what you are buying into ie you bought with your eyes wide open because the problems are discussed, to then expect to stop as soon as you own one is just not reasonable. Therefore I have no guilt in discussing / referencing the problems.

At the end of the day the .1’s are and always will be considerably cheaper than the .2 and that is 100% down to one thing which is amplified by the fact that the .2’s are at the other end of the spectrum ie they simply hardly ever go wrong in the same way.

You pays your money, you hopefully get out of it what you wanted but unfortunately with the .1’s you are buying into the legacy of the engine issues which Porsche left secondary owners to live with (I stay say shame on Porsche to not recognise these issues as manufacturer liability but instead left those out of warranty to pick up the pieces Rolling Eyes )

I fully understand the sentiments of the thread but in reality it has got no chance of meeting its objectives as the issues are fundamental to the ownership experience and simply cannot be ignored IMHO. Others of course will totally disagree with me but the debate has been had many times over the years and the net result is always the same.
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C4Silver
Silverstone


Joined: 14 Aug 2019
Posts: 146



PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumb

Here here ! I couldn’t agree more, except for the garage queen bit Hand

Like you I am new on here, I’m a total newbie when it comes to 911’s, my love affair with cars is long standing like many on here and again like you I am keen to adopt a more hands on approach to some of the maintenance undertaken on this specific vehicle, if the engine implodes or even explodes then the contingency funds kick in and at the end of the day that’s what motoring is all about. “To me at least” and by the sounds of it to you as well.

There’s far too much negativity surrounding IMS, RMS, Bore scoring and ownership in general, I previously owned a Discovery 3 and spent many years on the D3 forum, to listen to some of the horror stories on there you’d never buy one, I bought mine at 18 months old in 2009 and had it 8 years as a daily driver, covered 150k in it and it never let me down once,

I’ve since bought something else to replace it and again it is 100% reliable, it’s brand new, covered by a manufacturers warranty and gives me peace of mind ownership.

The problem with purchasing a used vehicle is pot luck, none of know whether a car was started from cold in the winter of 2008 and thrashed from cold every morning for a month from home to office, back home in the dark cold winter where oil was left in there for 20k miles. I don’t know the previous owner to me let it warm up before opening it up, had I wanted that level of protection I’d have bought new, the damage inside these engines come from an inherent flaw, the rest is just to luck and judgement.

Enjoy them, drive them and if something does go pop then start wittling and worrying ?
 
  
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jonttt
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 6136
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is the correct mentality for a .1, of course it is, you can enjoy the car. But at the same time you cannot ignore the many potential owners who simply would not enjoy that sort of ownership experience. They are much better being aware of the issue before they buy the car rather than after (as happened to my friend). They, as you undoubtedly did, can then make a fully informed decision. That of course would not apply if the issues where unfounded / rumor / negligible / exaggerated but they clearly are not, Hartech and every Indy I know makes a good living out of rebuilding these engines and thats a fact which cannot be igonored.

Ps I always say two things about Range Rovers (Land Rover), 1) the best all round cars I have every owned 2) I would never ever ever ever own one out of warranty and that is based on first hand experience of over £50k of warranty work over the years nooo
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C4Silver
Silverstone


Joined: 14 Aug 2019
Posts: 146



PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’d agree, especially the bit about owning land rovers.... That’s why I bought new, even then it’s its like playing Russian Roulette with only one chamber empty
😬

I tried to buy as late a gen 1 as possible after the chassis number with revised RMS but even then I don’t think that relates to the IMS bearing ?

I discovered all this when perusing the forums for info on the 996 which quite clearly has suffered, carried over to the 997 with a revised RMS that was done on mine under warranty a few years ago with a clutch replacement, there have been some suggestions along the path that the Manual doesn’t suffer to the same extent as the PDK, this suited me fine as I’d made my mind up that it had to be manual. I’ve contemplated fitting the central oil cooler in the middle of the front bumper to help cool things down in relation to heat but again mitigating risk the outlay for that would outweigh the cost of a replacement engine ?

And as some one on here said recently, thanks to all this worry the 997.1 has become very affordable.
 
  
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C4Silver
Silverstone


Joined: 14 Aug 2019
Posts: 146



PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Somethings gone awry in the header to these messages, but reading back to Alex’s post ?

Have you got the Data for the failures ? Warranty work related or total re build ? We’re the causes recorded ? Model year Specific ? any help and indeed info would be much appreciated.

Thanks.
 
  
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jonttt
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 6136
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C4Silver wrote:
I’d agree, especially the bit about owning land rovers.... That’s why I bought new, even then it’s its like playing Russian Roulette with only one chamber empty
😬

I tried to buy as late a gen 1 as possible after the chassis number with revised RMS but even then I don’t think that relates to the IMS bearing ?

I discovered all this when perusing the forums for info on the 996 which quite clearly has suffered, carried over to the 997 with a revised RMS that was done on mine under warranty a few years ago with a clutch replacement, there have been some suggestions along the path that the Manual doesn’t suffer to the same extent as the PDK, this suited me fine as I’d made my mind up that it had to be manual. I’ve contemplated fitting the central oil cooler in the middle of the front bumper to help cool things down in relation to heat but again mitigating risk the outlay for that would outweigh the cost of a replacement engine ?

And as some one on here said recently, thanks to all this worry the 997.1 has become very affordable.


Thumb spot on, with the right mindset the car is there to be enjoyed as Porsche actually intended in the first place Wink
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RichardKS
Monza


Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Posts: 175



PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what it's worth: got our '05 997 Carrera S Tiptronic as an approved used car from Bolton in January 2012 with 37,000 miles.

She's on 81,000 now and seems fine.

LTT fitted after a couple of years of ownership. Oil changed annually (using a 5/40w).

First gear manually selected for every pull-away from rest & NEVER driven over 2500rpm until the oil is warm.

The car has been used for shopping trips in town, a few trackdays, lots of trips to the 'Ring, France, Italy and Switzerland and was recently proven to be able to do 98mph by the local constabulary.

She hasn't been without fault - has had rads and condensers, several bits of suspension etc but she's loved dearly and is likely to remain 'on the fleet' for the foreseeable future.

Edited to add: tiptronic wouldn't have been my first choice, but my left leg ain't all it was so the automatic 'box makes sense for me.
 
  
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C4Silver
Silverstone


Joined: 14 Aug 2019
Posts: 146



PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Somethings gone awry in the header to these messages, but reading back to Alex’s post ?

Have you got the Data for the failures ? Warranty work related or total re build ? We’re the causes recorded ? Model year Specific ? any help and indeed info would be much appreciated.

Thanks.
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 16682
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me or the OP?
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 16682
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the info of mine's here:

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=100994
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