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coullstar
Albert Park


Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 1602
Location: Aberdeen/Torphins


PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:35 pm    Post subject: 993 black GT2 / RSR BlackSnake Reply with quote

I was at a local (Ballater) small car parade on Sunday and there was a black 993 with Gt2 kit, LHD and gold tramont split rims. I was with kids and wife and it was bucketing down so didn't get much time to have a look but Im just wondering if anyone knows the car?
It would be good to see again so hoping its someone local. Looked ace, very purposeful.
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1999 C2 Coupe - http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=124107

Last edited by coullstar on Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Trantorman
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 04 Aug 2008
Posts: 364



PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's not a GT2 Rep, the car is the Black Snake, 993rs running 4 wheel drive running gear and an twin turbo engine.

In 1998, with sportauto legend Horst von Sauma at the wheel, the Black Snake lapped the Nurburgring in 7min 46sec. Says a lot of what we've come to expect now that it doesn't sound all that fast, but bear in mind this was with the tyre, suspension and brake technology of the mid-1990s; a set of stickier tyres - like the new unused Pirelli Trofeo Rs it now has, in fact - and more modern brakes would surely make the Black Snake quicker still.

PM sent and happy to meet up.
 



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coullstar
Albert Park


Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 1602
Location: Aberdeen/Torphins


PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Replied, that's the beast!!! Wow
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1999 C2 Coupe - http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=124107
 
  
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Trantorman
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 04 Aug 2008
Posts: 364



PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

some more
 
  
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Luddite
Nürburgring


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 459
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WONDERBAR... Thumb
 
  
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johne
Monza


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 182



PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stunning
 
  
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toddy2
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 11 Jan 2015
Posts: 348
Location: Dorset


PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.joemacari.com/All-Cars-for-Sale/_prod_Porsche-993-'Black-Snake'_2529.htm
_________________
Current Porsche Line up:
1968 911T
2002 996 4s

1988 944 (Sold)
 
  
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IMI A
Barcelona


Joined: 02 Aug 2014
Posts: 1268
Location: KHI


PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.joemacari.com/All-Cars-for-Sale/_prod_Porsche-993-'Black-Snake'_2529.htm

Cool

Super car this for someone as its for sale and a very interesting part of Porsche's history.

On modern tyres and with the latest ceramic brake offerings and its Ring record 600bhp + would keep a modern GT3 honest. Can't believe someones not snapped her up. Retro cool off the scale.
 
  
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Slippydiff
Nürburgring


Joined: 22 Nov 2007
Posts: 400



PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMI A wrote:
http://www.joemacari.com/All-Cars-for-Sale/_prod_Porsche-993-'Black-Snake'_2529.htm

Cool

Super car this for someone as its for sale and a very interesting part of Porsche's history.

On modern tyres and with the latest ceramic brake offerings and its Ring record 600bhp + would keep a modern GT3 honest. Can't believe someones not snapped her up. Retro cool off the scale.


I almost pulled the trigger on it 3-4, maybe even five years ago I. A properly trick piece of kit, now running an RS Tuning 530hp (probably understated) lump, it’ll be hugely quick and have have huge amounts of torque. Great provenance too. But I got cold feet at the last hurdle when buying it, this as I couldn’t work out its real value. It’s a genuine factory RS Clubsport shell wearing a set of 993 RSR arch extensions btw.
GT2 (Evo iirc) race Bilstein dampers and GT2 Evo suspension linkages/arms too.
Has a lightweight bonnet and rear bumper, lots of very trick bits, but despite that it’s still a bitsa, and thus I struggled to put a value on it.
Thomas Schmitz f*cked up when he sold it (and he struggled to sell it despite massively undervaluing it many years ago).
It’s a proper weapon and owned by a PH’er now iirc.
 
  
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Trantorman
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 04 Aug 2008
Posts: 364



PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it does not matter how its viewed as a "Bitsa" or not, it was built from a genuine 993 RS with all the best trick parts available back in the day, including 959 doors, (because there lighter) carbon Wings and bonnet and a host of motor sport parts, it will always be a very special piece of Porsche history simply because its still exists, most cars from that time frame were broken up or have been locked away in collections the Snake has been free and been in regular light use and is a great car to use.

The car is back with me up in the Aberdeen area, with its last outing being at the Rennsport collective weekend, which was great fun and a credit to Paul who took the gamble on organizing the event, hopefully we will see that event grow in the coming years, it was great to be around other like minded owners who use there cars as intended.
 



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IMI A
Barcelona


Joined: 02 Aug 2014
Posts: 1268
Location: KHI


PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

She is some car Slippy. I’d argue less of a bitsa and more heritage than a Singer.

Times are changing. We rolled up with Yellow Peril to a 2019 R21 Porsche Club GB meet with our bitsa and walked away with over all concours winner which sort of tenuously validates these modded cars are being more and more accepted by the bearded ones. To think Yellow was picked up for exactly the same money our 964 C2 sold for is hilarious as yes time warp 964 worth a small fortune now but they’re a bit average out of the box and compared to YP dynamically it’s like a 911 on stilts. I’d say YP should be worth twice as much based on drive which is surely why we buy these things?!

This things a beast. I’d love to own her too but simply not in the UK enough to justify. Just look at her.
 



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IMI A
Barcelona


Joined: 02 Aug 2014
Posts: 1268
Location: KHI


PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trantorman wrote:
it does not matter how its viewed as a "Bitsa" or not, it was built from a genuine 993 RS with all the best trick parts available back in the day, including 959 doors, (because there lighter) carbon Wings and bonnet and a host of motor sport parts, it will always be a very special piece of Porsche history simply because its still exists, most cars from that time frame were broken up or have been locked away in collections the Snake has been free and been in regular light use and is a great car to use.

The car is back with me up in the Aberdeen area, with its last outing being at the Rennsport collective weekend, which was great fun and a credit to Paul who took the gamble on organizing the event, hopefully we will see that event grow in the coming years, it was great to be around other like minded owners who use there cars as intended.


Thank you for building this car mate worship

I would not have been a happy CGT owner watching a yellow beetle win over all best car Grin
 



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IMI A
Barcelona


Joined: 02 Aug 2014
Posts: 1268
Location: KHI


PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool

Les knows his 911s and looks after them like his first born! That black car concours too.
 



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Trantorman
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 04 Aug 2008
Posts: 364



PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That yellow one is a pretty car Very Happy
 
  
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IMI A
Barcelona


Joined: 02 Aug 2014
Posts: 1268
Location: KHI


PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trantorman wrote:
That yellow one is a pretty car Very Happy


Your first born? Grin
 
  
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Trantorman
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 04 Aug 2008
Posts: 364



PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely not my first build but certainly one up there with the best of them, glad your still enjoying it and using it as intended thumbsup
 
  
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IMI A
Barcelona


Joined: 02 Aug 2014
Posts: 1268
Location: KHI


PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trantorman wrote:
Definitely not my first build but certainly one up there with the best of them, glad your still enjoying it and using it as intended thumbsup


Best car I've ever driven by a country mile. Sadly I do not get to use her now till next year but I know someone who's driving the wheels of her Wink
 
  
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hot66
Hockenheim


Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 673
Location: North Yorkshire


PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trantorman wrote:

The car is back with me up in the Aberdeen area, with its last outing being at the Rennsport collective weekend, which was great fun and a credit to Paul who took the gamble on organizing the event, hopefully we will see that event grow in the coming years, it was great to be around other like minded owners who use there cars as intended.


think we met up with your mate at Wetherby enroute to the rennsport. He was telling me about the blacksnake over a coffee Cool . We were in our 1973 cars that he convoyed with for a while Very Happy
_________________
James

1973 2.4S
1993 964 C2

gone :
1967 2.0 SWB 911
1995 993 C4 Cabrio
2003 996 Turbo DMS
2003 M3 CSL



DDK
 
  
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Slippydiff
Nürburgring


Joined: 22 Nov 2007
Posts: 400



PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trantorman wrote:
it does not matter how its viewed as a "Bitsa" or not, it was built from a genuine 993 RS with all the best trick parts available back in the day, including 959 doors, (because there lighter) carbon Wings and bonnet and a host of motor sport parts, it will always be a very special piece of Porsche history simply because its still exists, most cars from that time frame were broken up or have been locked away in collections the Snake has been free and been in regular light use and is a great car to use.

The car is back with me up in the Aberdeen area, with its last outing being at the Rennsport collective weekend, which was great fun and a credit to Paul who took the gamble on organizing the event, hopefully we will see that event grow in the coming years, it was great to be around other like minded owners who use there cars as intended.


Tetchy aren’t we ?? Grin

I know the car well, it lived at Fearnsport for a good few months of its life. I spent many a happy hour dissecting it’s spec and prodding around it. And whilst many had no idea what it was, I knew exactly what it was the second I clapped eyes on, both when it appeared on H &S’s website, and when I first saw it at F/Sport.
And the reason I knew precisely what it was, was because I used to buy 911 & Porsche world religiously, and I remember reading the article on the car all those years ago. So yes, I totally get the car, and it’s provenance, and probably better than most so called Porsche aficionados Smile

So on the basis it’s a genuine 993 RS Clubsport, running an RS Tuning 993 turbo engine (NOT the engine the ‘Ring record was set with, which begs the question which car donated it’s crankcases ? Or did RS T build a brand new engine from scratch using new, stamped cases ?) a 993 turbo 4WD system, 993 GT2 Bilstein race car suspension and iirc pretty much the complete 993 GT2 Motorsport race car catalogue when it comes to the wishbones, dog bones etc, it also has a smattering of Cargraphic carbon panels (and a pair of 959 doors) whilst formerly rolled on a set of Cargraphic wheels. On what basis is that NOT a bitsa Question

Both of you appear to see my use of the word “bitsa” in derogatory way ? nooo

As I said previously, I get the car, and I suspect I get it better than most (as I said, I get it sufficiently that I came within a whisker of doing a deal with a Henry at Fletchdale to buy it, in the not too distant past) but I had concerns that if I bailed out of it, I’d lose my shirt, as whilst it’s provenance is very real, it’s not a particularly well known car, and whilst you, Imran and I get it, many won’t, put bluntly they won’t see past the fact it’s genuine factory 993 Clubsport that’s been modified to such a degree, it’s only it’s chassis number that marks it out as such.

If it had retained it’s original RS transmission and crankcases, I think I could have been tempted to make the leap, but without those key components, it would’ve been a high risk purchase. My loss ?
Possibly.
 
  
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IMI A
Barcelona


Joined: 02 Aug 2014
Posts: 1268
Location: KHI


PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can’t imagine owning a 911 and not modding it to suit yourself so bitsa really not taken by me in a derogatory way at all. Quite the contrary may hold the key to the perfect 911 nirvana.

Re the above black 993 RS turbo if she had original engine and gearbox boxed can you imagine how much she’d be worth having held the Ring record back in 1998? Not the same but I drool at the 3.8RS Hairpin have for sale. Fell off my chair when I found out asking £1.1m for the her.

With new GT3 RS changing hands for £200k+ I don’t think this is worth any less no? I’d rather own the 993 RS turbo personally than a robot but that’s just me. Car looks amazing standing still let alone taking her back to her old stomping ground at the Ring for a run.

These are not for the collector and the better for it. We’re the last generation that will be able to use these cars as intended. I’m going to make the most of it time permitting



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