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uk996
Monza


Joined: 09 Jan 2018
Posts: 165
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote




Is this the Bose amplifier? and the cables are to the speakers and line in?
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Hertsdriver
Nürburgring


Joined: 12 Nov 2018
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Location: Hertfordshire/London

2004 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes that is a BOSE amp thumbsup
 
  
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uk996
Monza


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve found another rectangular box thing with wires by the spare wheel, I wonder what that does?
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StuF
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

uk996 wrote:
I’ve found another rectangular box thing with wires by the spare wheel, I wonder what that does?


Potentially a crossover for the subwoofer if you have one?
Removes the high end sections of the audio to prevent damaging a woofer
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uk996
Monza


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Posts: 165
Location: Home Counties


PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stuf, it's too big for that. I've just removed the bracket, to me it looks like a amplifier. Wonder what the other smaller Bose box does? DSP?

Here you go:



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Hertsdriver
Nürburgring


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2004 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes its another amp. Do you have the sub on the rear shelf? if yes that also has an amp inside
 
  
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yo_clarkie
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I've battled a lot of issues trying to get a hybrid Bose/Porsche/Aftermarket solution that's acceptable and have a fish bin full of failed experiments to prove it. I recently had to help a buddy do his facelift similar to yours and in doing so, with little warning and bits available, I wired the front and door speaker in series to get the ohms up, connected straight to car loom for speaker out via the connector at the main amp (making Bose amp redundant) that you found in the boot under the mat (in the mates car this was a cut and solder job, in mine its via the correct plug i salvaged from an Audioleads kit as in pic, (but as supplied the wires were in the wrong places) and pulled the CD changer out and installed a kenwood amp to drive the sub as it was the same dimensions.

Oddly its come out sounding a lot better than any other option I've tried or heard, no hiss and no alternator whine (common issues) and whilst i change out the dash and rear speakers for some alpine ones at some stage, I'm in no hurry now.... Anyway this would mean ditching your DSP and running some speaker wires back to the head unit but its actually a fairly easy job in the porsche.
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Last edited by yo_clarkie on Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:03 am; edited 1 time in total
 



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yo_clarkie
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think your speaker wiring from the AMP to the car will be a little different, however same principle applies. As the speaker wires are in pairs (colour and colour+band) is not hard to isolate the pairs. Briefly scratch them across a 9v battery to line the speaker making the scratchy sounds to the wire colour.

See all the removed stuff inc your new bits to recover some costs. People pay silly money for the old OEM stuff.
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yo_clarkie
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lastly, there was no amp in my Sub, wasn't aware this was an option. However its a 1 ohm thing and will kill most amps, so i undid the 7,326 little screws and rewired it so both the speakers are in series and not parallel and its now 4 ohm and works with any small amp you choose to buy.
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uk996
Monza


Joined: 09 Jan 2018
Posts: 165
Location: Home Counties


PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yo-clarkie,
thanks for your input. It started off with wanting a HU with the usual amenities, like bluetooth and streaming. Up to date maps and navigation would be a plus. It'd also means losing the Nintendo era graphics too.

I gave it to a garage to wire up, but they didn't do a stellar job of it, active aerial was connected etc. Worst of all it sounded crap. I'm not expecting hifi in a noisy car, far from it. There is no clarity, lots of hiss, no sub bass all accompanied with overblown mid bass honk. I could hear the Bose sub behind me suffering (distorting) even at low volume.

I've gone down the rabbit hole of removing the wiring harness recommended by the car audio emporium, they had sent me the wrong one, it had a high to low level connector, but Porsche had elected to wire up the pre-out from the PCM2 via an ISO connector used for speaker out (rectangular, 8 pins), so the garage ended piping speaker out from my new HU (it has preout) to the Bose line-level in. It sounds very poor and I can't control the volume.

I've bought Alpine SPG-10C2 speakers for the dashboard in the mean time, as they were not expensive and reputed to be a big improvement. The door ones I'll leave, as they're supposed to be ok.

My intention is to see if I can use the existing Bose amp to drive this lot, there is the option of ripping the Bose stuff out and replacing it with a Pioneer GM-D1004. I also have a Hertz HDP4 I removed from a previous car, but I saving that for a quieter car.

Do you know the function of the smaller Bose box? I've translated the German, it's called a control amplifer. I think it's the DSP box, the other (lives in the spare wheel well) is larger and has a heatsink.

In theory I should be able to pick up the preout signal from the DSP or power amplifier. Not sure what I can with the Bose sub box, whether to remove it or modify it. I've had very good results with underseat midbass units, Focal ibus20 and equivalent. I'm sure they'll do a better job than the Bose box.
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Dammit
Indianapolis


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A word of caution, we absolutely could not find anywhere to put a Focal iBus 20 other than hanging it under the dash on the passenger side, no room under the seat, no room behind the seat (unless you are happy with it just sitting there).

I wanted it attached to the structure of the car, and have since done a day at Bruntingthorpe with the car seeing sustained lateral load of 1G, and it's not moved at all - so I'd call that success.
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yo_clarkie
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience across a number of brands, the Bose stuff cannot be made to co-operate in a satisfactory way, even with a lot of money biffed at interfaces boxes, so I now rip and replace...
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uk996
Monza


Joined: 09 Jan 2018
Posts: 165
Location: Home Counties


PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dammit wrote:
A word of caution, we absolutely could not find anywhere to put a Focal iBus 20 other than hanging it under the dash on the passenger side, no room under the seat, no room behind the seat (unless you are happy with it just sitting there).

I wanted it attached to the structure of the car, and have since done a day at Bruntingthorpe with the car seeing sustained lateral load of 1G, and it's not moved at all - so I'd call that success.


right, so yours is underneath the glovebox? I may take the Bose box out and fit it in there or may be just fiddle around with it and get it working better, though I'm wary of spending too much time for little gain.
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uk996
Monza


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yo_clarkie wrote:
In my experience across a number of brands, the Bose stuff cannot be made to co-operate in a satisfactory way, even with a lot of money biffed at interfaces boxes, so I now rip and replace...


I've actually got most of the bits to be able to replace it removed from a previous car I had. I'd like to be able to retain and reuse the existing wiring, preferably without cutting anything, at worst do it in such a way so that I can reverse it easily.

Also this started as I was fed up with the OE PCM2 not having bluetooth and very poor sound quality. I'm trying to avoid doing a full install, taking the seats out, putting down sound absorbing sheets etc
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Dammit
Indianapolis


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only additional working we ran was from the battery to the amp, we connected to the stock loom with the same connectors that Porsche used so it’s all reversible by simply unplugging it.
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uk996
Monza


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right, an update. I've received the ISO connector and proceeded to connect the preout RCA leads to it.

Now I have the preout connected to the Bose amp. Results? Well it works, I have much better control over the volume now.

BUT there are artefacts galore, all sorts of noises and hiss. This seems to be superimposed on the music. I can hear it even with the HU set to zero.

The noise is rhythmic, sounds like low-level oscillation, perhaps from ground loops? I could decouple the HU and amp, but it's a ball ache.

I'm loosing patience with this. What have other people done? Replace the amp?


An aside, the Bose dash speakers in mine seem to be different from what I've seen other people remove, the ones in my car have a metal spider. The replacements I've ordered, Alpine SPG 10C2 has a plastic spider.


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Last edited by uk996 on Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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uk996
Monza


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Posts: 165
Location: Home Counties


PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yo_clarkie wrote:
In my experience across a number of brands, the Bose stuff cannot be made to co-operate in a satisfactory way, even with a lot of money biffed at interfaces boxes, so I now rip and replace...


I'm arriving at the same conclusion. I'd rather not run new wires if I can help it. Does the existing wiring lend itself to reuse? Preferably without chopping it up.
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Dammit
Indianapolis


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine wasn't/isn't Bose, but it was the "hi-fi" option, which meant six speakers, six channel amp and the CD multi-changer.

We replaced the lot, and added a sub, the only additional wiring was to power the new amp directly from the battery and a short run from the head unit to the sub.

I don't see why you'd not re-use the existing wiring unless you were going for a very high-nerd install and wanted inch thick pure gold cables everywhere.

There are wiring diagrams available for these cars, get the one that is specific to your model and options and work out what needs to go where, what you want to install and then take a look at what connectors you need to source.

It's not a snap-fingers-and-done project, but it's also not massive.

I quite enjoyed soldering up all my new connectors, I'd not done anything remotely similar for 25 years so it was fun remembering how to do it.
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yo_clarkie
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

uk996 wrote:
yo_clarkie wrote:
In my experience across a number of brands, the Bose stuff cannot be made to co-operate in a satisfactory way, even with a lot of money biffed at interfaces boxes, so I now rip and replace...


I'm arriving at the same conclusion. I'd rather not run new wires if I can help it. Does the existing wiring lend itself to reuse? Preferably without chopping it up.


I'll do my best to describe what I have done, and its honestly less than 90 mins to do this.

I added 2.5m of speaker wire to the head unit wiring loom, wrapped them in tesa tape (optional) and cut a small hole to pass them through in the rubber bung behind the battery in the fire wall, came around the battery and in through one of the two rubber bungs into the frunk area. I applied some black silicon to these bungs to reseal, and as i used tesa tape, its impossible for the untrained eye to tell it apart from any other factory wiring. At the point where the amp was, I bought a connector as part of a kit (pic above) and soldered the speaker wires from the amp to the back of the connector and plugged into the speaker loom, wired as picture above.

In my case I had the optical Bose, so not any wire i could reuse, you might be more lucky.

Since I have the Bose sub, I rewired it to be be ___\^/____\^/___ instead of in parallel to give it some impedance and have a small Kenwood amp where the CD changer used to be to drive it. So my speaker loom from the front includes a pair of RCA cables from the Sub out (and a second and third set i could use later if i wanted to but don't).

I read all your comments about wanting to keep it factory and simple, I had the same initial approach, and can only say "*****" as to the time you have sent on this.

If your speakers have a metal spider on them, then it's likely they are SoundStream, not too shabby and comparable to the Alpine, so prob leave them there.
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uk996
Monza


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dammit wrote:


We replaced the lot, and added a sub, the only additional wiring was to power the new amp directly from the battery and a short run from the head unit to the sub.

I don't see why you'd not re-use the existing wiring unless you were going for a very high-nerd install and wanted inch thick pure gold cables everywhere.

There are wiring diagrams available for these cars, get the one that is specific to your model and options and work out what needs to go where, what you want to install and then take a look at what connectors you need to source.

It's not a snap-fingers-and-done project, but it's also not massive.

I quite enjoyed soldering up all my new connectors, I'd not done anything remotely similar for 25 years so it was fun remembering how to do it.


No problems with soldering, although I need to use a microscope for SMD work, as I simply can't see the parts properly these days, but through hole and connectors are not a problem.

I'm fed up with the time I spent on the crappy Bose stuff. Can't believe it's so bad for premium system.

Quote:
Clarkie

Dash speakers - that explains why the Alpine doesn't sound any better, in fact it's a little quieter, I guess it has a higher sensitivity or the impedance of the Alpines are higher. Luckily I didn't butcher them. I'll put the Alpines in the back and reinstate the front dash speakers.

Tesa tape is that black cloth tape for NVH purposes?

So, you kept the Bose sub? I find it lacks control and single note. I was thinking about getting rid of it and fitting one of those under seat subs, but above the passenger's feet area. Is the thing ported? I prefer sealed boxes or open baffle for subs. Did you change the speakers in the sub or just re-wire them?

My HU has F, R and sub preouts and I've got a decent, spare amp, though it's a little big. I'll need to find it and see if it'll physically fit or I'll just buy a couple of those Pioneer amps.

I should have enough screened 4 core cable kicking around to make the lead. The existing leads aren't shielded, but do seem to be twisted pairs.

Photo shows the lead I made, preout to Bose amp.


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