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cvega
Monza


Joined: 25 Feb 2013
Posts: 239



PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:22 am    Post subject: Cheap ebay manifolds + exhaust = TICKING Reply with quote

So i'm getting slightly fed up. Bought a switchable cheap exhaust off ebay and Toyosport manifolds. Despite several visits it's TICKING like a bitch under load from the left side.. both exhaust and manifold manufacturers blame themselves... I'm starting to think I should've left it alone! close to £1.5k later and i have a ticking car .. buy cheap buy twice Mad Mad Mad Mad Mad

In other words - don't buy the cheap stuff, save more money and save the headache.
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jond58
Monza


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you mean by ticking?? I’ve seen motorbike systems make noise between spring connected parts as bits of exhaust gas escapes. Not a blow but an odd noise that maybe like ticking. It’s not a leak therefore is it??
 
  
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ticking is usually due to the manifold leaking not the system, I have diagnosed cars where people had a ticking thinking their engine was at fault but its only been the manifold leaking slightly.
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Alex
Le Mans
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2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like someone's not installed it correctly. Dont know
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cvega
Monza


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's ticking under load, so maybe because engine is moving (RSS mounts), also a pain to diagnose on the ramps; where do they leak most commonly from? no signs visually
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Alex
Le Mans
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Engine can move all it wants, that doesn't matter as all the exhaust components are bolted direct to the engine and nothing else (unlike most other cars).

Also, leak points will be where any gaskets are.
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cvega
Monza


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. I might just have a crack at replacing them. I think the original from the cheap kit were used.
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Dammit
Watkins Glen


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think (although n is small) that we may hear of an increasing number of this type of "ticking noise help" thread - which is caused by the exhaust manifold mating surface corroding due to it's position under the engine and road salt (if I had to guess at a cause).

The original style gaskets do a much better job of sealing than the newer style ones - I was lucky that Precision managed to source some, when I had this issue, as my heads are lightly corroded and would not seal with the newer style gaskets.

Depending on how bad the corrosion is you may need to get the surface of the heads machined flat, fingers crossed some better gaskets do the trick.
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Paynewright
Monza


Joined: 17 Apr 2018
Posts: 198
Location: Nr Lutterworth Leics


PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have some stainless shim type gaskets from OPC - are these new or old type and what is the other version?
 
  
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Luddite
Nürburgring


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 408
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have zero experience of water cooled Porsches, though did drive a 944 for a week or so.. (-:

cvega, sorry to read of your issue though buying cheap can be the smart option on occasion, thinking buying parts that come in Porsche packaging while they are manufactured by others, i.e. Bosch, SKF, etc. etc. etc. However I do remember quite some time back when Porsche put out warnings on FAKE pats showing an x-ray image of a wheel casting that was obviously flawed, thus buying cheap parts that "look" OK can cause problems, more so when one may not have x-ray vision or has experience enough to determine fake from original, or engineering experience enough to judge the quality of what`s on offer.... Even engineers can get duped. As for buying off fleabay... who knows what you might be buying there..???

Ticking...? That used to be a sign of a hard pressed alloy engine cooling down when parked up the ticking being down to the differential coefficient of expansion in the materials used usually exhaust manifold to cylinder head and the likes, though in more modern vehicles they sorted that out by selecting better material matching.. Could be that under sudden and heavier loading you are generating a lot more heat and causing things to expand more..

Dammit... jeez, getting the heads machined would seem a rather expensive way to go with who knows what else might be disturbed/found in a strip down process..? Perhaps an alternative slightly thicker more compliant gasket material could be utilised, you can even buy the stuff in A4 sized sheets and make your own. A quick interweb search and I found this vid, sure he rabbits on a bit but it is the same method I was taught by a ships engineer who had to make his own gaskets for everything while at sea and not all out of material as thin as that in the vid :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAS8mpXVLOg

Of course there are folk who will make gaskets for you to any shape size or thickness

https://dir.indiamart.com/indianexporters/gaskets.html

http://www.klinger.co.uk/products/jointing-materials/high-temperatures

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HEAD-GASKET-AND-MANIFOLD-MATERIAL-A4-SHEET-SIZE-X-2-/230701954075

Just thinking in type... Question
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
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2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's no evidence whatsoever that this problem is down to buying cheap parts. There's also many options to resolve mating faces and gaskets not sealing.

Only issue I see here is finding out what the problem is. Might not even be related to the exhaust Dont know
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was assembly paste used when fitting the gaskets, I always use it when fitting exhaust parts together, it just takes up any imperfections in the system? I would just get a pair of new gaskets and fit them with some paste.
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Bluebird911
Nürburgring


Joined: 29 May 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with copy parts is that they are not 1st generation design manufacture, but often 2nd or 3rd generation copies where the build up of tolerances means that fits aren't good. In addition the engineering often means the flat faces aren't the right standard so have to be made to fit in some way as has been suggested by specific gaskets or paste.

Are you sure there is a leak causing the ticking, or is it a pinging sound? When I replaced a manifold a long time ago on an old Capri, it was a copy part and I think the material was either a strange spec or the material thin. It made a pinging / ticking noise when under load as you describe - OK for a Capri, but not a good sound for a Porsche. I must say it settled down a bit when the metal presumably went through a number of heat cycles, or some of the exhaust products coated the interior. However, I was never fully satisfied and replaced it later with a salvaged part.
 
  
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cvega
Monza


Joined: 25 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ticking sound wasn't there until manifolds were replaced.. it's coming from left hand side only. I dont know whether paste was used, but I'll try to find out.
I'm considering buying original porsche gaskets and starting there.
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Alex
Le Mans
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Identify the fault 1st.
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cvega
Monza


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to but my options are limited. It's only happening under load. How do you diagnose exhaust leaks when the car is moving?
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Alex
Le Mans
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get some bathroom sealant or cheap exhaust putty and smear it round your cat/manifold joint so its sealed. Take the car for a blast and see if the tickings gone or theres a blow hole in the sealant. If still ticking and no blow hole do the same on the other joint and check for the same, etc.
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Hertsdriver
Monza


Joined: 12 Nov 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you do like you would in any diagnosis, start at the begining..

exhausts are not particularly tricky other than that they get very hot and the heat makes things like nuts and bolts more difficult to undo..

First step is to take the whole lot off and inspect it.

Get both the manifolds off, use new gaskets and some sealing compound, make sure all the manilfold nuts are tightened properly (in fact make sure they are actually all there, they break easily and you may find the people that fitted them have 'bodged' this in some way...)

Once you have ensured the manifolds are correctly fitted and sealing you can move on to the joint between the manifold and the Cats, this is a simple 3 bolt joint, so clean both surfaces to get rid of any rust and exhaust carbon, then reassemble with exhaust gasket and use new stainless bolts with brass nuts to the correct torque.

Once they are definitely sealed move on to the back boxes.
Check the hangers to make sure they are all corrosion free (they rust quite spectacularly) and make sure they are correctly and securely attached to the block, then its just a case of ensuring the slip joints are clean and sealed with exhaust paste, and that they are tightened up correctly. The 2 flexis are prone to pinholing so its worth checking those too and if holed either get welded/repaired or cut out and replaced.

The last point is then the outlet trim from the back box to the tailpipe, again a simple joint that needs to be cleaned and sealed with paste, then tightened up correctly.

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Alex
Le Mans
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah do all that and hope your ticking is gone. Should only take you a day.

How does he check its sealed correctly if he can't find if its sealed correctly now?
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cvega
Monza


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI @Hertzdriver everything was off and replaced with new parts less than 2 months ago.
I shall rip the bumper cover off this or next weekend and do some investigation.
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