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CB-997.2
Newbie


Joined: 13 Jul 2019
Posts: 5



PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:42 am    Post subject: 997.2 slow starting and misfire Reply with quote

Hello 991uk, first time post here - I'm looking for some diagnostic help...

I have a 2010 997.2 Carerra s - lucky me Very Happy

Recently the car has been struggling to start. I have owned it 2.5 years and it has always fired within a second of starter motor cranking. Now it seems to be more like 4 or 5 seconds.

Last weekend when starting the car, it struggled (as above) then misfired for a few seconds before stalling. I tried again and with light throttle encouragement, it fired and ran normally. I haven't had misfires since but the slow starting persists. Once the car is warm, I can turn it off and it fires again perfectly without the delay.

My local indy has suggested the High Pressure Fuel Pump and internet research suggests the same for my symptoms. However, most of the stories on the internet relate to a recall in 2011 and I've found very few tales of failure more recently. I called Porsche Reading earlier this week and they confirmed that the recall was completed on my car in July 2011.

So my questions are;
- Does High Pressure Fuel Pump sound likely as the cause? A chap on pistonheads has made me nervous with a story of his OPC chasing a similar fault which turned out to be the ECU and resulted in a few thousand in bills (under warranty thankfully for him!)
- Do HPFPs have a tendency to fail even after recall replacement?
- Would a fault code reader help with diagnostics? I don't currently have one but have been meaning to buy one anyway.

My car is out of OPC warranty and I have used my local indy for everything so I do not have any relationship with an OPC. If I had I might be pushing them for some kind of good will - if it is the HPFP, it will have only lasted about 30K since recall replacement. That's pretty poor.

Grateful for any wisdom 911uk folks can provide to help with diagnostics.

Thanks,
CB-997.2
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darkhorse
Trainee


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 82
Location: under the car


PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Having tried some generic fault code readers on my car the codes were not very useful at all. You need to get the proper P codes and I bought Durametric for that reason, it is superb. It was £350 but paid for itself the first time I used it pretty much. You can also sell it and reclaim a good part of the purchase price as they are well sought after

I would suggest reading the fault codes is the first thing to do to be honest Thumb Could eliminate a lot of gueswork
 
  
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6981
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

High pressure pump if faulty will give fault codes .

With a tester you look at the actual values as well .

it should read approx 45 bar at idle .. i've seen anything from 5 bar to 200 bar with a faulty unit .

There was a recall .. but that doesn't stop a unit from failing .. either way you will have a fault code if this item fails .

Sorry for the delay in answering .. not been well recently so i haven't logged on .
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Tel Boy
Newbie


Joined: 28 Mar 2018
Posts: 13
Location: South Oxfordshire


PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi CB,

I had a failure on my High Pressure fuel pump. Noticed that oil was dripping from it and it was found to be faulty and replaced.

I checked with OPC who said no recalls were due on my car (2009 997.2) but I didn't have any documentation to say it had been replaced or not. Got a local indy to sort it in the end.
 
  
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CB-997.2
Newbie


Joined: 13 Jul 2019
Posts: 5



PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies and advice folks.

I can gather from what has been posted that the High Pressure Fuel Pump is indeed a known problem on the 997.2!

Ref the diagnostic codes, am I right in assuming a bogo standard OBD reader won't capture the necessary data and that I will need a proper (read Expensive) tool which can read Porsche specific codes?

In terms of repairs, I have spoken to Porsche Reading again and my local indy and received repair quotes which are not far apart cost wise.

I put it to the Porsche Service chap on the phone that my HPFP has only lasted 35K ish since recall replacement and that didn't exactly represent good engineering! He told me that Porsche have a process where I can submit a goodwill claim if I feel something is substandard and Porsche will review my case. This process is still valid for my car (all cars I believe) which is now 9 years old and outside of OPC warranty.

The car needs to be diagnosed by an OPC (for £220 ish) then I can submit a claim which they will review and will offer all, some or none of the cost.

The million dollar question is whether my case represents poor enough engineering to get them to cough up - I have my doubts and do recognise that the recall was 8 years ago. However, given the similar cost between OPC and Indy, I think I'll give it a whirl.

**Note, I don't want this thread to drift into a debate on whether I should or shouldn't qualify for a goodwill payment!

Regardless of the outcome I think Porsche should be applauded for even having this process. I've never heard of anything like it before - do other marques have similar?

I will report back in due course....
 
  
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6981
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off the car needs diagnosing .. if it is a pump then there will be fault codes which imho a basic tester would show a code .. you may well get unknown code but there should be some numbers which we can check on .

There has always been Porsche goodwill .. the trouble is you have to ASK the service advisor for it .. he will then put in a ticket to Porsche .. they will make a decision and make an offer that's non negotiable .

They .. The service advisors don't as a rule tend to offer it regardless ... that's how Porsche wants it .

The amount offered though .. hmm .. an Indy will fault find , change the component and charge you .. it will be a lot cheaper than an OPC .

OPC may come back to you and say .. 30 % parts and labour .. which may well still be more expensive than an Indy .. hard call there and that's your choice .

It's also based on how much you use an OPC for work .. if never then its a lower amount than someone that tends to use OPC .. not really fair but that's how it used to work when i was at one ... it's about customer retention .. sigh .

Just imho of course and i know nothing really Very Happy

Obviously i push Indys these days as that's where i work but i also have no problems with OPC when they do the job correctly Smile
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Last edited by deMort on Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Magic919
Suzuka


Joined: 05 Jun 2013
Posts: 1197
Location: Berkshire


PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopefully they’ll chip a bit off for you. Worth asking. I’ve only ever needed it on a Porsche, so can’t speak about other makes.
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997.2 C4S PDK
 
  
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CB-997.2
Newbie


Joined: 13 Jul 2019
Posts: 5



PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evening folks - I have some updates...

Firstly, thanks again for the input - particularly deMort - I'm new to these halls but the more I read, the more I see how much help you provide. Bravo sir!

I have used a basic OBDII reader which has given me a DTC P1023 code. A bit of internet research suggests it is (as expected) fuel pressure related.

I've also noticed there is some residue under the left rear of the car. Not on the floor but on the car. It is odourless but black and oily. The attached pic shows the location...

I plan to get the car booked in somewhere ASAP. I have preferred indy garages for my Porsche and aging BMW M cars previously and always found them better value. However, with this issue I have called two indys and one OPC and the indys are quoting higher for the HPFP. The difference is in labour. Indys are allowing 3-5hrs labour where the OPC has quoted 1.5hrs. When I questioned the OPC on this they said it was realistic.

Are the indys over egging it, or is the OPC under quoting?!?

CB.
 
  
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CB-997.2
Newbie


Joined: 13 Jul 2019
Posts: 5



PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pic...
 



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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6981
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bless you .. the pump replacement is circa 2 hrs .. 1.5 - 3 is what i would expect to be quoted as a customer .

An indy would spend a bit more time making sure that was the only fault and resetting adaptations hence 2 hrs is a fair charge .. above that .. hmm .. not for me to comment .

There is also the matter of diagnosis .. a 1 hr charge is pretty standard to diagnose a fault .
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CB-997.2
Newbie


Joined: 13 Jul 2019
Posts: 5



PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good to know - thanks.

Can you comment on the picture I posted with the leak? To my ignorant eye it is just another lump of machinery in a very busy engine bay!

Cheers.

Thumb
 
  
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Tel Boy
Newbie


Joined: 28 Mar 2018
Posts: 13
Location: South Oxfordshire


PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your pic looks exactly what happened to mine. Started dripping very small amounts of oil when hot. Mine is fine since HP Fuel pump was replaced.
 
  
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6981
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CB-997.2 wrote:
Good to know - thanks.

Can you comment on the picture I posted with the leak? To my ignorant eye it is just another lump of machinery in a very busy engine bay!

Cheers.

Thumb


Sorry young man .. yes that's the high pressure pump in the top part of the circle .. it has a protective ally cage around it .

They don't normally leak but its possible .

It will be obvious whats leaking when its worked on .

The usual fault on these was the quantity control valve .. too much or too little pressure .
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My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target see Here

Thank you all so Very much .



Mechanic

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Now At An Indy.
 



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