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wadsy
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Joined: 23 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:18 pm    Post subject: Which 911 for 'sporty-gt' duties? Reply with quote

Which is the best 911 for the following criteria?...

Decent comfort for long journeys
Great car to drive on the way and when we get there!
Decent luggage space for week or two away
Not too expensive to run: mpg, tax, insurance, servicing etc
Won't depreciate too much if possible
Budget around 60k, but less would be better if poss!

I'm thinking as an all-year round proposition, the 991.1 C4S PDK would be the best bet, but happy to be persuaded otherwise - considering the 991.1 C2S or maybe even a 997 GTS or 997 Turbo if the 991 wouldn't be noticeably more refined, but, from what I've read I think it probably would be and a Turbo would be more expensive to run as well I believe.

Bit of background to my question....

We currently have a BMW 640d, which we bought primarily for it's long-distance comfort, low tax and decent mpg but also with decent performance. It has a bit of a split personality with the switchable damper settings and full-auto or paddle shift.

I would however like to change for something more 'sporty' and not quite as large. I've previously had a 996 C2 and would ideally like a cross between our current 6 series and my previous 996 ie. A 'sporty-GT'.

This is going to be our main car and will probably be the last chance I get to get my 'dream-car' as well.

I had also researched other cars (shock/horror!) but the 911 seems to be the best all-rounder, with others losing out for the reasons below...

Lotus Evora – good ride quality, but not enough luggage space?...and not the 'quality/solidity' of the 911

Alpina B4 – Could be a less expensive option, but I had a B3 Bi-Turbo before and found the (lack of) rear traction frustrating, hence preferring the 911.

V8 Audi R8 – even less luggage room than the Lotus and worse mpg than the 991

Nissan GTR – ride too firm?...high running costs?

Audi RS5 (V6) – High RS parts costs?

M4 Comp pack – Too 'hardcore'? Alpina B4 probably a better 'sports' GT?

V8 Vantage – cost more to run than the 911 and not as much luggage room?

In my humble opinion, I think the only ones to challenge the 911 (for me) in a 'dream/special-car' scenario would be the R8 or the Vantage.

Your thoughts and advice would be very much welcomed please.

Cheers
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T8
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the 911s you mention would fit your listed requirements although the 991 would suffer a little more from deprecation than the rest.

For something a bit more special I'd go for a Gen2 997 Turbo although you'd need to stretch your budget a little.

If £60k is the maximum there's plenty of 991.1C2Ss out there to choose from. Only higher mileage C4Ss are there at the moment but they're falling gradually.

Happy Hunting Thumb
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wadsy
Silverstone


Joined: 23 Oct 2013
Posts: 119



PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
All the 911s you mention would fit your listed requirements although the 991 would suffer a little more from deprecation than the rest.

For something a bit more special I'd go for a Gen2 997 Turbo although you'd need to stretch your budget a little.

If £60k is the maximum there's plenty of 991.1C2Ss out there to choose from. Only higher mileage C4Ss are there at the moment but they're falling gradually.

Happy Hunting Thumb



I thought the 991 would offer better comfort over the 997?

A Turbo may be nice, but surely it'll have higher running costs?

60k needs to be the max really I think, but from from reviews/videos I've read/seen the C4S seems to be a better option?

iirc - I've seen C4S's out there with reasonable mileage (40/50k ish) for around 60k.
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T8
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A 991 would be more comfortable but a Gen2 997 is still a very nice place to be.

Running costs of a 997 Turbo aren't as high as you'd think. Servicing is a little more expensive but everything else is similar. MPG isn't much different.

Sadly £60k probably won't get you a Gen2 997T.

If you're planning to use the car regularly a 50k mile 991 would be a bit high to start with but if you can get a c40k mile 991C4S for £60k go for it. Thumb
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Winny911
Montreal


Joined: 13 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you consider the Jag F-Type in your list of alternatives?
 
  
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Winny911
Montreal


Joined: 13 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also there are some good options from Maserati and the new Alfa Gulia might fit the bill
 
  
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wadsy
Silverstone


Joined: 23 Oct 2013
Posts: 119



PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winny911 wrote:
Did you consider the Jag F-Type in your list of alternatives?


Yes, I did and thought it's boot would be too small and it wouldn't keep it's value as well as a 911?
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wadsy
Silverstone


Joined: 23 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winny911 wrote:
Also there are some good options from Maserati and the new Alfa Gulia might fit the bill


Masser: Grandtourismo?...too big, higher tax, worse mpg, higher service costs

Alfa Gulia: Saloon, probably traction issues like my old Alpina B3 B-Turbo?..and not the quality of a Porsche or the residuals?
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Hamster75
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Joined: 07 Sep 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say 991 C2s would fit the bill, comfy & powerful, more refined than a 997
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apollokre1d
Sepang


Joined: 06 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
Sadly £60k probably won't get you a Gen2 997T.


Right you are, here is a what seems to be a well sorted Gen2 997T with 47,000 miles and 32 months Porsche Warranty and Assist until March 2022 for £62,950.

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?p=1490040#1490040
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spongebob squarepants
Zolder


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wadsey welcome, first of all you’re in the wrong place for anything other than a 911 and to be honest from your list it’s conference v premier league.

You’ll get plenty of opinions I’m sure, the 997 is a cracker but not so sure as a daily. The 991 beats it everywhere hands down, but you’re on an enthusiasts site and the 997 has plenty of fans Thumb

Obviously drive them all! (Then buy a 991) Grin Remember especially as a daily high miles on a 911 is a big issue when you come to sell on, personally a low miler would be essential.

Ooh if you could just find another 10 k

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-carrera-991/porsche-911-991-carrera-4s-pdk-immaculate-stand-out-spec/9744578
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James M-S
Suzuka


Joined: 11 Apr 2017
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2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My advice is to go for 2wd. You’ll get more luggage space for a start.

Traction won’t be an issue due to the weight of the engine over the driven wheels.

If you are driving it lots in winter conditions, you’re better off with 2wd+winter tyres than 4wd+summer tyres.

Just my two Penneth.

Happy shopping Smile
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Mad Mark911
Silverstone


Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 129
Location: Maidenhead


PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spongebob squarepants wrote:
Wadsey welcome, first of all you’re in the wrong place for anything other than a 911 and to be honest from your list it’s conference v premier league.

You’ll get plenty of opinions I’m sure, the 997 is a cracker but not so sure as a daily. The 991 beats it everywhere hands down, but you’re on an enthusiasts site and the 997 has plenty of fans Thumb

Obviously drive them all! (Then buy a 991) Grin Remember especially as a daily high miles on a 911 is a big issue when you come to sell on, personally a low miler would be essential.

Ooh if you could just find another 10 k

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-carrera-991/porsche-911-991-carrera-4s-pdk-immaculate-stand-out-spec/9744578


Welcome to the madhouse! I'm with Mr Squarepants! I've had an M4 Comp Pack, and sold my V6TT RS5 to buy a 991 C2S only 3 months ago. Buy the 991, because coming out of the 640d - you'll find the 997 too old, particularly when it comes to it's technology.

The RS5 is absolutely a super GT and massively quick off the line (think 3.5 seconds to 60)- but it's boringly efficient when compared to the 991 and it just doesn't interact with you in the same way. The feel of any 911 is superb, but the 991 demands fewer compromises than anything earlier.

The M4 is amazing on a dry road in warm weather. When you're in the mood. Hugely fast (because the 444bhp is actually more like 480bhp) and with almost zero understeer in the dry, it's lunatic fast. But put it on a cold, wet road and it's torque spikes mean that the rear wheels are constantly trying to spin up and it wants to oversteer everywhere. Then an Astra diesel will be faster.

Do let us know what you choose! Thumb
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Robertb
Dijon


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercedes AMG GT worth considering, available for around £60k now.
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askgeez
Barcelona


Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 1496
Location: Essex


PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

on my 3rd 997, and would probably be recommending the 997 GTS coupe. It really is a fantastic car, and worthy of the hype. They are all over eight years old now, and low mileage ones are still over £60k.

However, having had a 991.2 as a courtesy car last summer, I would say that it would probably suit your purposes better at that price point. The new tech is nice , and you can still get the gen 1 3.8 normally aspirated ...the 3.0 litre hasn't got as much character , but is very torquey and quick. Ride quality is excellent in a 991, really civilised.... if you've had a 997, you might miss the steering feel and 997 feels more 'go kart like' than the 991

alexanders prestige have a really nice 991.1 coupe, low miles with the very desirable aerokit. £60k exactly

As Terry says the 991 will suffer a bit more depreciation yet...i can't believe you can get a leggy one in very low £40s now Surprised




@robertb
good call....
my mate sold his Merc AMG GTS last week for mid £60s. Just 17k miles on it, every desirable option, fast, sound incredible, literally F1 technology, but a really big car, and most definitely a GT. Its a mercedes, and therefore reliable enough as a daily, but its an autobahn stormer, not a b road car , which is where a 911 excels. Not a lot of luggage room in them.
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GlenB
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Joined: 20 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robertb wrote:
Mercedes AMG GT worth considering, available for around £60k now.


This is what came to my mind when I read the requirements too.
 
  
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wadsy
Silverstone


Joined: 23 Oct 2013
Posts: 119



PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
All the 911s you mention would fit your listed requirements although the 991 would suffer a little more from deprecation than the rest.

For something a bit more special I'd go for a Gen2 997 Turbo although you'd need to stretch your budget a little.

If £60k is the maximum there's plenty of 991.1C2Ss out there to choose from. Only higher mileage C4Ss are there at the moment but they're falling gradually.

Happy Hunting Thumb



I was planning to get something next year; hopefully early next year!...

Much to go on 991's depreciating do you think?

Why the Gen2 Turbo over the Gen 1; what would be the advantages of the later model would you say?


Cheers Smile
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wadsy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
A 991 would be more comfortable but a Gen2 997 is still a very nice place to be.

Running costs of a 997 Turbo aren't as high as you'd think. Servicing is a little more expensive but everything else is similar. MPG isn't much different.

Sadly £60k probably won't get you a Gen2 997T.

If you're planning to use the car regularly a 50k mile 991 would be a bit high to start with but if you can get a c40k mile 991C4S for £60k go for it. Thumb



I think I may have to try a 997 to compare with the 991 - are there any particular 997 models more comfortable than others?

Re: running costs; tax, insurance and mpg all more costly for the Turbo, as well as the servicing you mention.

It would be used regularly, but not as a commuter/shopper!...small run-around for that....probably sub 5k/annum which will help keep the miles down.

I've seen them out there!...£62k for one with 38k on it and another for £58k with 52k miles.

Cheers Smile
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wadsy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spongebob squarepants wrote:
Wadsey welcome, first of all you’re in the wrong place for anything other than a 911 and to be honest from your list it’s conference v premier league.

You’ll get plenty of opinions I’m sure, the 997 is a cracker but not so sure as a daily. The 991 beats it everywhere hands down, but you’re on an enthusiasts site and the 997 has plenty of fans Thumb

Obviously drive them all! (Then buy a 991) Grin Remember especially as a daily high miles on a 911 is a big issue when you come to sell on, personally a low miler would be essential.

Ooh if you could just find another 10 k

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-carrera-991/porsche-911-991-carrera-4s-pdk-immaculate-stand-out-spec/9744578



Thanks for your reply Thumb

You don't consider the Vantage or an R8 in the same league?...but not enough luggage space in those anyway I reckon and the others on my list had pretty much been ruled out for the reasons stated - I probably should have left that bit out and just asked the 911 question! Laughing

It will be in regular use, but not really a 'daily' as such, not used as a commuter, probably sub 5k/annum which should help keep the miles down over time. As I mentioned, this will have to be a long term keeper as I won't have the funds to buy something like this in the future!

That does look very nice! Cool

Cheers Smile
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wadsy
Silverstone


Joined: 23 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James M-S wrote:
My advice is to go for 2wd. You’ll get more luggage space for a start.

Traction won’t be an issue due to the weight of the engine over the driven wheels.

If you are driving it lots in winter conditions, you’re better off with 2wd+winter tyres than 4wd+summer tyres.

Just my two Penneth.

Happy shopping Smile



Thanks for your reply Thumb

Much difference in luggage space between the 2wd and 4wd?

I read reviews and seen videos (Evo) that preferred the C4S ove the C2S which had influenced my thinking!

Cheers Smile
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