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NickHappy
Nürburgring


Joined: 27 Apr 2014
Posts: 461
Location: W.Sussex


PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gazc2 wrote:
Your not talking to yourself Thumb pretty sure I`m not the only one wathching this with interest and admiration,having spent the weekend wrestling rusty nuts and seeing some of the issues you are coming across the more age related issues were going to find with these cars unless you keep on top of them not a huge revelation I know but a timely reminder they need a bit of looking after.


Absolutely this ^^^^ Great work - Not sure I’d have the balls to go this far!! although I’m up for some DIY maintenance.

Please keep the updates coming Thumb Thumb
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Cossers
Newbie


Joined: 25 Sep 2015
Posts: 7



PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great read and great to see someone actually have the nuts to work on their own car rather that be too scared to drive it because it will go down in value!
Fantastic, love it and I’m for sure going to work on mine when I eventually get my mits on it!
 
  
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easternjets
Watkins Glen


Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 2153
Location: Darlington


PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarkHorse, great work and a very informative write up.

I never went as far with my work, which started out as a water pump issue which I foolishly ignored when I was buying the car. Glad to see you've replaced the pump, it's not the gasket that goes on them its the drive bearing/seal that starts to weep and whilst it's not hugely critical it's just plain annoying.
I got my pump from Autodoc and it was a Pierburg which by chance is what was fitted to my car from new.
The coil packs are an issue as Beru have changed the design of them. They now have a a thicker body than the originals and as a result the fixing bolts don't rebate into the pack they sit proud which means that on the drivers side the pack nearest the turbo fouls the actuator. The only solution is to fit an original Porsche coil pack as they still have the old style packs. I got 5 of the new ones from D911 and they also sourced me a Gen Porsche one so that I could get the actuator on. TBH 2 of my original coil packs were in perfect condition so I could have probably used one of them, the other ones were split and rusted so went in the bin.
As for plugs I think I went with Denso Iridium, those or Bosch should be good
I'll attach a picture.
_________________
997 Turbo Gen 2
997 Turbo Tiptronic S
Porsche 968 Coupe 1992
Porsche 928 S4
Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera 1985
 



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darkhorse
Monza


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 171
Location: under the car


PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Eastern Jets, the coil on mine near cylinder 6 has a melted look to the back of the connector plug, so as you did I am replacing the set. Managed to order the Beru coils off ebay for half the price of the OPC but have ordered the original one from Porsche and its due on monday. I have bought the NGK iridiums? never had an issue with NGK plus before so hopefully they should be good to go!

As far as progress goes, the pipes are all removed and bonded and the engine is starting to go back together (more pics to follow). I am going to try and get a few hours on it tonight, what a way to spend a friday night Dont know


Whoops, forgot that oring, managed to source a viton one from a local specialist








I realise all engines will be different, but it seem the ones that have caused the issues are mainly the one on the front coolant bracket next to the water pump, and the one on the RH bottom side of the 4th picture down. The fitting next to the thin one that feeds the turbos with coolant (or returns it from them )

That would tally with the tightness of the fittings. Some were extremely well in and I regretted starting to heat the one in the second pic from bottom (under PS pump on top coolant manifold) as it was a swine to get out . Removing these and reusing them is quite comitting as once you have applied heat to the epoxy you have to continue!!

Anyway, will post more progress pics as I get them. I have also seperated the EGR valves (secondary air valves I think porsche calls them) from under the intake manifold, and have cleaned any carbon out from them. There was a fair bit.. pics incoming

It is the cleaning up that takes the time, fitting new parts is the nice bit.

**tonights update, both heat exchangers fitted with new orings, and various other tedious items.

Next job trying to get the old turbos off round 24..

Cheers

Last edited by darkhorse on Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:37 pm; edited 4 times in total
 
  
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darkhorse
Monza


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 171
Location: under the car


PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NickHappy wrote:
Gazc2 wrote:
Your not talking to yourself Thumb pretty sure I`m not the only one wathching this with interest and admiration,having spent the weekend wrestling rusty nuts and seeing some of the issues you are coming across the more age related issues were going to find with these cars unless you keep on top of them not a huge revelation I know but a timely reminder they need a bit of looking after.


Absolutely this ^^^^ Great work - Not sure I’d have the balls to go this far!! although I’m up for some DIY maintenance.

Please keep the updates coming Thumb Thumb


Cheers NickHappy! Will keep them coming for sure!
 
  
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darkhorse
Monza


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 171
Location: under the car


PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cossers wrote:
Great read and great to see someone actually have the nuts to work on their own car rather that be too scared to drive it because it will go down in value!
Fantastic, love it and I’m for sure going to work on mine when I eventually get my mits on it!


Excellent, cheers Cossers Thumb
 
  
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easternjets
Watkins Glen


Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 2153
Location: Darlington


PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fitted the Denso Iridiums in to my Boxster and the difference was noticeable straight away. Idled better and accelerated much smoother, they get my vote.
_________________
997 Turbo Gen 2
997 Turbo Tiptronic S
Porsche 968 Coupe 1992
Porsche 928 S4
Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera 1985
 
  
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darkhorse
Monza


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 171
Location: under the car


PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Replaced all plugs and coils, existing plugs were a bit carbonised (will have been running rich due to the turbo issues I imagine) but all looked well. Checked bores for good measure and all looked perfect. Next issue is the turbos came with no studs and I only just found out yesterday Surprised ; my fault for not taking them out of the box and looking but such is life. So, OPC order 677 is on it's way to me tomorrow all being well.

Removing the old turbos was quite enjoyable (cathartic) in some ways! The flange face on the exhaust manifold had some minor pitting on one bank when I seperated it and the old turbo (and its invisible gasket), so I am hoping the gasket seals ok; if there is any leakage from it I will have the lovely job of replacing the exhaust manifolds and their bolts.
I would do that when the cars running though so the engine can be brought up to temp, indeed I may well ship it off to a local good indy as they have all the kit in case anything snaps, will probably work out cheaper than buying a stromski jig and all the other items. The bolts look reasonable, certainly they still look like bolts anyway, if a little rusty on a few of them. All being well it will be a non issue, but I am prepared if it needs to be done.


Will update once the studs have landed and the turbos are installed. The neverending story continues...
 
  
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easternjets
Watkins Glen


Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 2153
Location: Darlington


PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You shouldn't have any issues removing the bolts on the metzger turbo, they aren't the same set up as the other cars which have studs and nuts.
Mine came out very easily, like you I was terrified of something snapping but when I took the first one out I realised they were a different bolt.
_________________
997 Turbo Gen 2
997 Turbo Tiptronic S
Porsche 968 Coupe 1992
Porsche 928 S4
Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera 1985
 
  
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darkhorse
Monza


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 171
Location: under the car


PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

easternjets wrote:
You shouldn't have any issues removing the bolts on the metzger turbo, they aren't the same set up as the other cars which have studs and nuts.
Mine came out very easily, like you I was terrified of something snapping but when I took the first one out I realised they were a different bolt.


Thanks, I remember you saying this previously. I would be interested to see the state of some others that people have had them removed without issues?!

If I recall correctly the bolts are 13mm for most of them, but some have shrunk somewhat to nearer 12.5 or 12mm. I sincerely hope they come out without issue; but it's something I will probably let an indy deal with because the engine needs to be back in the car to get it up to temperature, and on the offchance one snaps, they will already have the methods and tools to get them out! If I ended up doing it I would be welding a nut on any snapped ones to get them out (if there was enough protruding) , but I will phone them and see how worried they sound!

Would be great to hear from someone in the trade with these cars about if 997 t bolts normally don't give issues?

Can't get back on it until the weekend due to work committments but hope to get the motor ready to go back in then..
 
  
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darkhorse
Monza


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 171
Location: under the car


PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Managed to get a bit of time on this during the evenings this week, after closer inspection of the manifold to turbo flange that concerned me it should be fine after checking how the gasket seals on it. On that basis I started on reassembling the rest of the coolant system on the top of the engine and after getting new studs for the turbos I stripped the actuator arms off and greased them with the special grease needed for the purpose.

As gav mentioned its a big enough tube to do 1000 cars, but it is also a very high temp thread anti seize so I used some on all the studs and copper lock nuts. Managed to get one turbo on last night, all new pipes fitted etc. So got to do bank 2 side this weekend, fit the loom, intakes and EGR valves (need to repair a bad connection I spotted on wire going into an actuator plug (does anyone know if you can buy new loom plugs?) . If i cant get a new plug I will have to disassemble this one and try and rewire the pin.

Then its time to check over everything again, get it on stands and go around underneath & check all sealing washers nuts, pipes etc. Then it will be refit time next week.
Turbo Prep 1

Turbo Prep 2

Building it back up 1,2,3


 
  
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ok51mon
Imola


Joined: 08 Oct 2014
Posts: 774



PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great Job,

I think a photo guide for disconnects would be fantastic. You should request this to be a sticky.

Thumb
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darkhorse
Monza


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 171
Location: under the car


PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok51mon wrote:
Great Job,

I think a photo guide for disconnects would be fantastic. You should request this to be a sticky.

Thumb


Thanks ok51mon Thumb

A photo guide for disconnects as in for engine removal? If so I am going to do some staged photos during reinstall and will make a remove/reinstall guide from photos taken during the job. Re-install guide will just be any modifications to the removal procedure (over and above the classic 'reffting is a reversal of removal'!) or potential gotchya's
 
  
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darkhorse
Monza


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 171
Location: under the car


PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had some time during the weekend and evenings this week to make more progress on this.

As I have gone I found a few brackets and bolts and such that I needed *wanted* to replace so had to wait on yet another parts order. All of the bottom end is bolted back up, all new pipes except for a couple of turbo water pipes that are NLA. Additionally the turbo vent pipes that lead from the tanks to the front water manifold are also NLA at present, luckily I had one new one I bought months ago and my other one was in VGC.

Current state is I am waiting on the turbo gas sensors as the threads on mine were damaged from removing them from the old turbos (they were crazily stuck in there, I used heat , plus gas, miracles etc). I got them out without damaging the nut but one of them has some thread missing which actually was heat welded into the turbo threads!

This is something to be aware of for anyone doing turbos at any point... there is a good chance you wont get them out undamaged and they are about £700. I have hopefully bagged a set from someone who went to garett turbos for much less and am waiting for them to arrive.

Work to date:
New turbos
New turbo Lines (except for 2)
New turbo drain tanks
All coolant pipes rebonded
Front coolant manifold cleanup
New coolant pipes to the hard pipes in the bay
New orings for the underside coolant pipes which were all replaced before I started this work
All coolant elbows replaced
All rubber pipes replaced
All new orings and sealing washers through the engine (the vast majority)
All new main oil pipe returns
New Tandem pump billet cover
New tensioner wheels
new OEM water pump
New coils and plugs
New gearbox connector plug seal
Various brackets, bolts and pipe clips all replaced
Oil Filter (pending)
Drivebelt (pending)
Oil + Coolant (pending)
A rear brake pipe (not done yet)
Rear disk shields (not fitted yet)
Lots more I have forgotten and will add...









Last edited by darkhorse on Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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darkhorse
Monza


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 171
Location: under the car


PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Next work is quite pleasant;
EGR valves back on, place the wiring loom and plugin the deep connectors and get it in position on the casings > Fit intake manifolds and all the other parts I can >> refit the rest of the loom connectors >> then wait for my turbo gas temp sensors to turn up (and Evoms pipes).

I also bought some Evoms inlet pipes as I got them at a good price from a US guy and couldnt resist. Not exactly sure if I need them but if I end up going hybrids they will be beneficial for sure.
Hoping to get it refitted next week, will be good to get the garage back!

Last edited by darkhorse on Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:33 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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MarkGolf
Imola


Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 796
Location: S.London


PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superb work!

Taking an engine out of a 911 is something I have never done but something I really want to do to complete a full overhaul. The turbo engine seems a complex unit compared to the NA! Great work!
_________________
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1991 964 Carrera
2005 997 Carrera S
2008 957 Cayenne GTS
2003 Boxster 2.7
1994 Eunos Roadster S Special Turbo 270bhp!
1991 Mercedes 500SL
1979 Mercedes 280e
1995 VW Golf VR6 3.0
 
  
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darkhorse
Monza


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 171
Location: under the car


PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkGolf wrote:
Superb work!

Taking an engine out of a 911 is something I have never done but something I really want to do to complete a full overhaul. The turbo engine seems a complex unit compared to the NA! Great work!


Thanks MarkGolf Thumb
I had no choice but to do it or break the car which I didn't want to do so it was a needs must scenario really. With that said the engines do come out in a very modular way and it is definately doable on an NA at home with some planning. Removing the exhaust makes it a much less burly piece of apparatus to remove, even though it doesnt have to come off I thinned it down as much as I could before removal.

As to the NA engine, I have not had one in bits as yet but it does look less complex for sure. As long as you are methodical and bag and tag everything (or I just do related things eg water pump and its bolts for example), and take some pictures along the way it is definately acheivable, especially as there are all manner of workshop manuals out there for the NA cars Thumb

Last edited by darkhorse on Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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darkhorse
Monza


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 171
Location: under the car


PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a sidenote once I had stripped the turbo engine down a lot and saw what did what it became a lot less complex (to me). I think a lot of the mystery is that you cant see much of it except the many pipes etc.

The bolted on water/oil cooling certainly adds an extra dimension but once you get it apart it's not too bad. The main concern with rebuilding one of these and the reason I can see why it is so expensive for a specialist to do it (apart from stripdown and parts cleanup etc), is because there are so many potential points of leakage if its not 100%; so many orings, coolant elbows, coolant pipes,sealing washers etc that cannot be accessed without taking the engine out again in some cases... so a meticulous approach is needed.

I would say one of the things that took me the most time is going through all the parts diagrams making lists of the items I needed to do the refresh. I will make this xls available if it is of use to anyone >> oh, and then when a huge load of parts arrived in a box, assigning all the orings and bits to seperate bags per engine area (or parts diagram actually). That was a major PITA
 
  
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darkhorse
Monza


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 171
Location: under the car


PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Small update from the few hours I got on this during this week

Fitted inlet manifold, sorted a wire in the loom to an actuator plug that had got damaged by something (insulation was a bit ragged near the connector)
Fitted loom and some other miscellaneous bits. Bit of headscratching required to remember where everything was routed as it was a while ago when I started this project. Sussed it out pretty fast thought and all on track and the end is in sight. Well, the end of stage 1!




I have some Evoms turbo intake pipes to go on, just waiting for some CNC adapter from the hoses to the turbos (long story but the hoses were missing them...)

My new coolant vacuum/pressure test kit arrived today (an ebay special). It looks very decent... we shall soon see!

I have got to replace the rear brake pipes or at least the NS one as there is some nasty looking corrosion on one near to the junction box under the car where the pipes route into at the back. Its a bit of a pain but I will have to do it before I can refit the engine.
Jury is out on whether to make the pipes up myself or buy them from Porsche. Will check price and decide on that basis Grin

Last edited by darkhorse on Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:43 pm; edited 2 times in total
 
  
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darkhorse
Monza


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 171
Location: under the car


PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got a bit done on this yesterday. Coming on well now; I'm waiting on the new coil connectors to repin to the loom (two of them) , hopefully they will fit... (see the other thread I made regards these)

Current state



The only thing left to fit is the turbo inlets and the water pump pipe, and as soon as the connectors land (if they are correct) this will be done straight after.

Waiting for price from OPC for the two rear brake lines (the crossover one and the one to the NS caliper.) Tempted to make my own, will take a look at it tonight after work.

Will be refitting it as soon as the brake lines are done and the coil connectors have landed. Then will vac test the coolant system, bleed the brakes, add oil and bolt it all up and get it ready for priming and first running tests

UPDATE// Wiring connectors are NOT available seperately from Porsche, its a full loom only...

and for the pair of main rear brake pipes it's less than £100 delivered so I won't be making them, one of them looks a tricky shape to match and time/cost basis it is not worth it at all, likewise not for job satisfaction as Id rather have perfect fit OEM.
 
  
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