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Luddite
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 337
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DH, just wanted to echo the sentiments already expressed by others. I have spent many years rolling around the garage floor working on my cars, less so these days, and any time I had access to a lift I did not feel comfortable working while standing up or bending my neck looking up at the underside.... I guess it can be just what you get used too.. and I ever worked on my cars solo too.

Following your progress with great interest, appreciating the all the effort to post it here too.. Thumb
 
  
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darkhorse
Trainee


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 79
Location: under the car


PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luddite wrote:
DH, just wanted to echo the sentiments already expressed by others. I have spent many years rolling around the garage floor working on my cars, less so these days, and any time I had access to a lift I did not feel comfortable working while standing up or bending my neck looking up at the underside.... I guess it can be just what you get used too.. and I ever worked on my cars solo too.

Following your progress with great interest, appreciating the all the effort to post it here too.. Thumb


good stuff luddite! thanks Smile

I have worked from a lift in the past when one was available and to be honest I would prefer it but I dont have one lol so have to make do until I move house and get a huge man barn hopefully Grin
 
  
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rabbitstew
Hockenheim


Joined: 21 Aug 2015
Posts: 702



PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good work! Ive just stripped a new mini down and pretty much rebuilt it - new suspension, brakes, all the full major service stuff, plus supercharger service, new ignition, new coolant system etc. Took the gearbox off and did the clutch as well as about a million other bits on it, but for some reason I never work on my 997 turbo - so fair play to you.

With regards to ramps, i use quickjack ramp. Best thing i ever bought for my garage. You just slide them under the car, press a button and the cars up in the air by 3 foot and safer than axle stands.

When my car was at 9e they mentioned there are 2 types of water pump for the 997 turbo. One has metal blades and the other has plastic. They usually check when the engine is out and replace any metal bladed pumps with plastic, as if they fail they are less likely to cause any damage.
_________________
2008 997.1 Turbo Manual - 585whp thanks to do88 & 9e
2000 Ducati 996
1999 Yamaha R1
1994 Kawasaki ZXR750L2
 
  
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darkhorse
Trainee


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 79
Location: under the car


PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks rabbitstew.

quickjack wouldnt work for engine removal I don't think looking at the lift it provides, but it looks excellent for most other jobs!
Good to know about the waterpumps as well, cheers



Not had much time this work to work on the engine this week at night but I have started stripping some of the parts off, and entered the rats nest of 'shall I replace that too' territory.

Here are a few pictures




The water pump wasnt leaking visually, but the gasket seems to have been in poor shape around the bottom outlet, the pump itself is very smooth indeed and the non metal impellar type. I was going to replace it if it was in any way suspect but I will just be replacing the gasket at this time, as a new one will be no different going on past new water pumps I have fitted to cars. So it will just be cleaning the mating surfaces and a new gasket.





I have had a nightmare trying to get some of the fittings out of the turbos so the lines are getting cut tomorrow when its daylight. I also had a battle with the turbo exaust gas sensors that screw in at the back of the turbo, I managed to get one to free up with a lot of heat and repeat tries, but decided I would just fit new ones. I then got the price from the OPC today for them and it was about £750
Surprised so I will be removing mine now Grin

A largely hidden pipe with the engine in, is showing a lot of corrosion on the joint between the rubber hose and the metal, seeing as how its a main oil return from oil cooler to engine casing on bank 1 I am replacing it. I don't see it as a failure risk at this time, but I don't like it.



I am also replacing the other main oil return that runs from the top side of bank one, along the water manifold on the front of the engine and up through the intake to the oil tank because that is corroded at the same joint and looks grotty.

The price about £550 ish plus vat for the pair

Next job is to finish removing the rear water manifold (had a job getting the rubber coolant pipes off the pipe stubs on it) and then sort the leaking sealing washer on bank 1 side.

The oil drain lines are stuck into the bottom of the manifold so I am going to take it off to try and remove them.

I will also be removing, erm, most of the top of the engine so I can get access to the alleged 'weak point' coolant elbows. Sharkwerks do a set of 3 for about £800 ish imported, but the OEM ones are about £15 each I believe and the current ones are not leaking so I will use new OEM ones.

Then at some point, the worst bit of the job, making up a massive parts list using the Porsche parts breakdown pdf! So very tedious.

I will update the thread after the weekend.
cheers
 
  
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NickHappy
Nürburgring


Joined: 27 Apr 2014
Posts: 440
Location: W.Sussex


PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you get it into the living room somehow and do your work in there?? Grin

You’re going to be in that garage for a good few hours....

Still watching with interest, great updates thanks DH
_________________
997 turbo Manual.
996 turbo Manual. ex.
 
  
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darkhorse
Trainee


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 79
Location: under the car


PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NickHappy wrote:
Can you get it into the living room somehow and do your work in there?? Grin

You’re going to be in that garage for a good few hours....

Still watching with interest, great updates thanks DH


The garage is my living room Very Happy

Yes, a fair bit to do, but may as well make a proper job of it; and attend to everything while I am at it.
After several more hours working at them I have managed to get the exhaust gas temp sensors out without damaging them, very pleased about that becase I didnt want to replace fully working ones at £800 if I didn't have to.



Also doing the secondary cooler o-rings while I am at it. and the main one thats under the throttle body area



Next jobs, remove front coolant manifold, inlet manifolds, and prepare the manifold for regluing the coolant pipe stubs. Also stripping down to where I can replace the turbo lines.
 
  
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hermes
Trainee


Joined: 08 May 2017
Posts: 77



PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, good effort on the engine removal without fancy lifts etc, and thanks for writing it up.

I have a question for you as I’m also planning to replace the flex disc on my C4S prop shaft.

My plan is to disconnect the propshaft, lower it a bit, and then swap the disc without removing the propshaft completely.

Based on what you can see, does that sound feasible?
 
  
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darkhorse
Trainee


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 79
Location: under the car


PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hermes wrote:
Wow, good effort on the engine removal without fancy lifts etc, and thanks for writing it up.

I have a question for you as I’m also planning to replace the flex disc on my C4S prop shaft.

My plan is to disconnect the propshaft, lower it a bit, and then swap the disc without removing the propshaft completely.

Based on what you can see, does that sound feasible?


Totally feasible yes. Porsche dont sell the guibo seperate but Its made by febi bilstein and they are available on ebay for about £50 ish. Your plan will work, was a bit of a tussle to seperate the prop from the output shaft, i used a lever bar on a safe area and it frees up easily
 
  
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hermes
Trainee


Joined: 08 May 2017
Posts: 77



PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, suppose I should get on with it then!
 
  
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darkhorse
Trainee


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 79
Location: under the car


PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got time to do a bit on the car the last few evenings. To summarise, the turbo pipework has been a real PAIN and is seized in the old turbos and wont come out. I have tried heat, persuasion, more heat, brute force etc and they dont seem to want to come out. The main issue I have found is that the pipes simply dont have the strength to get good leverage behind the fittings so it is very hard to exert enough force on them. So to that end I have cut a couple to get to the pipes behind them, and could free none of them on bank 2 side so I am cutting my losses and just replacing them all with new..

The parts list has grown a bit more.

I am also replacing both turbo drain tanks as I got a good deal on a pair so it made sense as the old ones have seen better days and then it will all be new.

Oil lines, the long one at the bottom front of the engine, I tried to undo one union where it attaches on bank one side to the cam housing area, but although the nut unwound it is seized to the actual oil pipe Floor so I am going to cut both ends of the pipe with a dremel and cutter near the nut, and of course renew that pipe as it was manky anyway.

Oil line arrowed in red in the image below


On to the next battle, the front water manifold. So firstly I removed the coolant manifold on the top of the engine, which gave access to the water pipes to the front main manifold. Then the fun started. Although there was no sign of any leaks from the coolant outlets or pipes (because they were on so damn tight..!) I wanted to be careful removing the pipes so as not to gash or damage the outlets from the manifold.

Engine carrier and exhaust bracket removed, hmmm.... cant see any more fittings, more checks, levered the manifold gently to see if there was any movement.... a little.


So after a good few hours battling I ended up removing the elbows from the casings (that should 'just' be attached to the manifold with the oring coupler (with protector sleeve) and then with some serious persuasion with a rubber hammer, I managed to eek one elbow off and then extract the water manifold with the other one still seemingly welded on!!

The pictures below tell the story, not necessarily in the correct order Im afraid.


Suffice to say, I got access to the guide bolt I am sorting and found the cause of the displaced rubber cover to one of the coolant elbows... The rubber protector sleeve seems to have been damaged on installation (could only see it when the manifold was coming out as it was hidden) is the only thing I can assume, unless a small leak and the ensuing buildup of gunk made it bulge and let further badness in.

Anyway, Im glad I caught that as on a factory new car they may be easy to get off, in fact you can probably change the elbows to the block with the engine in place (maybe...) but not a 1% chance could it be done on this one!

So, will be cleaning everything up next stage, prepping the coolant manifold and resealing the (perfectly rock solid) coolant outlets!! and adding parts to the parts buying list.

Next job is a pleasant one, removing inlet manifold and all the other non rusty parts at the top of the engine. I have nearly cracked the worst of the old bits (got to cut the bolt off one turbo support still then cut the pipes and remove the turbos.) and after a mega clean up it will be parts list time.

I may well end up removing the gearbox to replace the large oil pipe that comes down from the secondary oil cooler to the block, hopefully it will come out without me needing to do that. But I will wait until the new parts have arrived to do that as it is one less oil inlet to protect.
Cheers







 
  
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darkhorse
Trainee


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 79
Location: under the car


PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a sidenote, I think next time (note, I am sure there WILL be a next time) the engine comes out for any meaningful work I am going to put it on one of my engine stands, probably the beefy one. It will mean removing the gearbox yes, but will save a load of messing about and the use of my custom Porsche OPC 'beech log' tools; which have been very handy for rotating the engine into various angles! (pack one side up one side down)

For an intial phase though where a fair bit of force is needed trying to free seized components it's nice to have gravity on my side. An engine stand would have been flapping about a bit at some stages.
 
  
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darkhorse
Trainee


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 79
Location: under the car


PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another update to the thread...

It's is now parts order time Mr. Green

I decided to take it down to this level, order the new parts and then do the oil cooler orings and coolant elbows under there when I have the new parts in, as it is less orifices to seal up Grin
I am currently in the process of making a list of all of the bits I need. I have done phase one clean on the engine and will be doing another clean tonight.
Turbos will come off when I have the new pipes as I want to replace them as I remove them so I can get the routing right without major messing about seeing as its a first time stripping this engine.
Heres a few pictures of progress







Everything looks good , apart from the coolant elbow leak shown in a previous post. Also, all of the oil lines that are fitted with the dual orings are very well 'in'. I have not tried getting them out yet properly, but after a first attempt I know they will be nasty.

So, tomorrow is parts order time, and start to clean and prep the parts to go back on. Like coolant manifolds etc, big clean and prep for new orings.

The parts list I am making covers every oring, seal and rubber pipe on the top of the engine... On top of that are all turbo lines, and various gaskets and bolts etc

Cheers
 
  
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brownspeed
Monza


Joined: 09 Jun 2016
Posts: 203
Location: Gods favourite city-Manchester


PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

worship worship worship (wow)!
_________________
2004 997.1 C2S (Hartech rebuilt)
2002 TVR Tamora 3.6
1990 Mini Cooper RSP

Abarth 595
 
  
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