Joined: 24 Feb 2019 Posts: 224 Location: under the car
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:00 pm Post subject: 997 turbo engine removal DIY - engine refresh and new turbos
So, I used the hottest afternoon of the year to take the engine out of my 997 turbo yesterday. I had already disconnected everything and worked out how I would do the job, so all that was left was to go for it and take the mezger out.
If it is of interest to anyone I can post up more pictures and do a summary guide. Here is a few pictures of the removal.
I would say compared to other engine removal/repairs I have done this would be 'easier' if you have access to a 2 post lift . When doing it with axle stands only, on a gradiented garage floor (it slopes downwards and from left to right slightly) I would say it makes it a lot harder, but still clearly do-able with a bit of prior planning and some decent safety measures. I would personally rate it a solid 8/10 for one handed DIYing off axle stands as a first time.
Repeat removals would be easier as I know how to do it and have a good system now.
You can see in the last picture the way I got the car up at the front, using ramps as someone else on here (infrasilver I believe **thanks mate) used. Because of the slight gradient from front down to back, I bought some car transporter tie straps and clamped both front wheels to the stands. So that was the front end dealt with. At the rear, I had already removed the rear bumper and intercoolers etc in my attempt to free the turbos. Unfortunately as the coolant lines were totally heat/rust welded into the old turbos I had to remove the engine to replace with the new turbos I fortuitously aquired for a great price from a guy in Florida.
So at the rear, I jacked the car up in stages using the rear jacking point to lift the rear, put a stand under one side, then moved to the rear crossmember and put it to a height that made the car perfectly horizontal (there is very little room on the turbo between the rear engine plate and the chassis rail so it need to be horizontal to come out smoothly (or so it seemed at the time)
Here is a few pictures of the removal.
I used an engine crane and two old seat belts to lower the engine, and will reuse them to lift it back in after. There is no room for chains. The seatbelts fit through the available space ok though.
**disconnect everything** this would be in a photo guide if there is a demand for it..
then I used a gearbox jack under the gearbox and undid the tiptronic mount nuts and the rear engine mount nuts, a staged lowering process was initiated... It was nice and controlled, but tedious doing it alone.
I then discovered I had not removed the coolant pipe that goes from the bottom of the expansion tank to the engine, but it was nicely revealed when the engine had dropped a couple of inches so I undid and removed it (this is why I did a staged lowering, so I could catch anything I had missed)
I knew when the engine got down to the bottom of the gearbox jack, it would be too high for the engine to sit on the engine trolley (a cunningly reused machine mart wheel dolly rated at 500kg each so used one for the gearbox) .
So I raised the gearbox off the gearbox jack (it worked well) and used my small trolley jack to relower it down.
I then continued the lowering in one go pretty much so that gearbox and engine were resting on their padded trolly dollies.
The only issue I had, due to the mildly gradiented concrete garage floor, was that the output side (off side) of the diff was very close to a lug on the suspension framework when I lowered the engine in the lower stages, so I did a bit of yoga between the engine crane and using a bar and some cardboard to keep the diff from damaging the suspension and vice versa.
Once the engine was landed on the trolley, I didnt have enough height on the jackstands to remove it....
With the oil filter removed, I was about 1 inch missing height wise, so after some messing about, I managed to get my big trolley jack under the OS rear jacking point, and raised the car a few inches higher, the engine then slid out nicely and I lowered the car back on to the stands.
You will note several other sets of axle stands... The front ones are just in place under the jacking points in case of failure of the ramps... (unlikely I know but you can never be too sure). The red ones are just placed as catching stands for the main blue stands at the back that are holding the car up.
The other ramps ended up not being used for anything. But for any jobs that involve wheels on work underneath I always prefer ramps where possible.
So that's where I am up to. I will post up a few before and after pictures when I have the old turbos off and new ones on.
I also am planning some other jobs while its out. Namely sorting a small oil leak on a timing chain guide bolt.
Turbo pipe replacment where needed + new orings for the others.
All sealing washers.
Rear coolant manifold thing, new orings and protector seals for the ones underneath (and o rings)
New coolant pipes where needed (engine bay ones look like new)
Propshaft guibo being replaced
new accessory belt
new coils and plugs
turbo check valves
new oil filter and engine oil
new porsche coolant (I need to buy a vacuum bleed kit to hook up to my compressor)
oil pressure sensor (mine works but I think its meant to be worth doing?)
I will assess the coolant pipes in the engine, I spoke to a few specialists in the UK that say they havent had coolant pipe failures in very often, yet in America it seems high risk. Is it worth removing and resealing these and 'pinning them'? the jury is out on that at present.
** I disconnected the plenum rubbers as I was trying to find if I was missing any electrical connector on top of the tiptronic (I had no documentation on the tiptronic removal). As it turned out there is a load of vacuum piped coming off the back of it AND I couldnt see anything under there!! So I left refitting it until I had the engine out as I was confident I had the right bits disconnected.
Cheers
T8 General
Joined: 29 Jun 2010 Posts: 16298 Location: Kent
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:15 pm Post subject:
As someone who can cut themselves on a spanner and has to google which end to hold a screwdriver I salute your work and feel embarrassed to offer an opinion but ........
In your position I feel it's a 'no-brainer' to pin your coolant pipes. I haven't heard of as many 997Ts popping off as 996Ts were prone to but it can't hurt. _________________ 2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
darkhorse Monza
Joined: 24 Feb 2019 Posts: 224 Location: under the car
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:39 pm Post subject:
T8 wrote:
As someone who can cut themselves on a spanner and has to google which end to hold a screwdriver I salute your work and feel embarrassed to offer an opinion but ........
In your position I feel it's a 'no-brainer' to pin your coolant pipes. I haven't heard of as many 997Ts popping off as 996Ts were prone to but it can't hurt.
Thanks T8.
So thats one vote for pinning! It definately does make sense. I am a bit OCD though so may end up having to reseal them like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIl2-vBAnvk
I can imagine the list growing before I get to the end of it!!
brownspeed Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 09 Jun 2016 Posts: 322 Location: Gods favourite city-Manchester
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:39 pm Post subject:
Please post the pics and information. I hope I never need to remove mine (non metzger) but the geek in me is genuinely interested. nice work. _________________ 2004 997.1 C2S (Hartech rebuilt)
2002 TVR Tamora 3.6
1990 Mini Cooper RSP
Abarth 595
darkhorse Monza
Joined: 24 Feb 2019 Posts: 224 Location: under the car
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:42 pm Post subject:
brownspeed wrote:
Please post the pics and information. I hope I never need to remove mine (non metzger) but the geek in me is genuinely interested. nice work.
Thanks brownspeed
Ok so thats one vote for the guide!! cheers, I have plenty of pictures in the event it would be useful for others, like a step by step guides worth!
FZP Estoril
Joined: 18 Jan 2015 Posts: 3974 Location: Cheshire
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:52 pm Post subject:
There are a few of you lot on here that in my opinion, are tapped. I'm having bouts of uncontrollable shaking like Merkel reading this, and you're doing it like this is a monthly occurrence.
I'll be watching this thread with great interest. As for pinning the pipes, my view would be that seeing as you've got the engine out, it's a no brainer to do it. _________________ 997.2 Carrera 2S GT Silver/Cocoa.
NickHappy Nürburgring
Joined: 27 Apr 2014 Posts: 496 Location: W.Sussex
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:11 pm Post subject:
Great Job DH - that takes some balls. I’m definitely up for a bit of DIY but that’s another level.
Makes perfect sense to pin the pipes and look at as much preventative maintenance as you can at this stage. (Unless you’re telling me this was a mornings work dropping the Mezger...
Posts like this are what the forum is all about and please do let us know how it goes getting it back in again.
Dark horse. I salute u. If I had the balls technical skill or knowledge I would love to do this too.
Pining the pipes is a no brainier.
Keep the updates coming. _________________ 2002 996tt x50 manual in bassat black - 9eXX
Brunty88 Newbie
Joined: 01 Apr 2019 Posts: 36
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:24 pm Post subject:
Another vote for pinning while it's out
The car I brought had them done and this was a huge bonus
The more pics the better I looked everywhere for a guide on how to do this and couldn't find a proper how to this would be amazing as I do have access to a two post lift as well as other things
Should I need to take my build further knowing this would be a huge tool.
Will be following great stuff
deMort Dijon
Joined: 21 Mar 2015 Posts: 7829 Location: Brighton
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:31 pm Post subject:
From one mechanic to another i salute you .
_________________ .
My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target .
Thank you all so Very much .
She's not going until july 2020 though .
7pm - 9pm
Indy Mechanic .
MisterCorn Dijon
Joined: 08 Jan 2011 Posts: 7481 Location: Nottingham, England
Top work, the more photos the better. They will all help when putting it back together.
MC
darkhorse Monza
Joined: 24 Feb 2019 Posts: 224 Location: under the car
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:55 pm Post subject:
Thanks for the positive feedback guys
FZP wrote:
There are a few of you lot on here that in my opinion, are tapped. I'm having bouts of uncontrollable shaking like Merkel reading this, and you're doing it like this is a monthly occurrence.
I'll be watching this thread with great interest. As for pinning the pipes, my view would be that seeing as you've got the engine out, it's a no brainer to do it.
nice!!
Re the pinning, yes seems to make sense. It has always seemed like a bandaid to me though; its not going to stop a coolant pipe leak, just stop a mass ejection of coolant over the rear tyres though its definately a good safeguard!!
NickHappy wrote:
Great Job DH - that takes some balls. I’m definitely up for a bit of DIY but that’s another level.
Makes perfect sense to pin the pipes and look at as much preventative maintenance as you can at this stage. (Unless you’re telling me this was a mornings work dropping the Mezger...
Posts like this are what the forum is all about and please do let us know how it goes getting it back in again.
All the Best
NH
Thanks NH. Glad this thread is well received, I will be sure to add more to it and hopefully it will help other people in future.
Just goes to show bigger mezger/turbo work doesnt necessarily have to mean a big bill from an Indy or OPC. Its only a car/engine at the end of the day and can be worked on and removed as such. I am impressed at how nicely accessible/visible thing's are now it's out; its Party time!
Was 3.5ish hours actually removing it (with refreshment breaks as it was boiling hot) and about 8-10 hours getting things ready and disconnected (just a couple of hours at night after work for a few days) but I had already removed a lot for the turbo replacement like bumper. At least 2 hours of that was messing around with jackstands and working out how certain bits came apart/off.
FRP wrote:
Dark horse. I salute u. If I had the balls technical skill or knowledge I would love to do this too.
Pining the pipes is a no brainier.
Keep the updates coming.
Thanks FRP , will do. another vote for pinning! cheers
Brunty88 wrote:
Another vote for pinning while it's out
The car I brought had them done and this was a huge bonus
The more pics the better I looked everywhere for a guide on how to do this and couldn't find a proper how to this would be amazing as I do have access to a two post lift as well as other things
Should I need to take my build further knowing this would be a huge tool.
Will be following great stuff
Will do cheers Brunty88. There is no DIY guide anywhere for the 997t that I could find, but I will do one with pictures at some point in the coming weeks. Having access to a 2 post lift would make it a lot easier, and save a good few hours as well.
deMort wrote:
From one mechanic to another i salute you .
cheers
MisterCorn wrote:
Top work, the more photos the better. They will all help when putting it back together.
MC
Thanks MisterCorn, will add more photos for sure. Cheers
Last edited by darkhorse on Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:24 am; edited 1 time in total
Gazc2 Watkins Glen
Joined: 08 Nov 2003 Posts: 2131 Location: Perthshire
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:04 pm Post subject:
nice work I am watching with interest no doubt mine will need to come out at some point not brave enough to tackle it on my own though, you get up to speed and let me know when I can drop mine off _________________ 2007 997 Turbo & 924s Restored
1990 964 C2
1989 3.2 targa
1987 3.2 Cab
1986 3.3 Turbo
1986 944 2.5 (later fitted with a 2.7 after wife went scuba diving in a flood and popped a piston through the block)
darkhorse Monza
Joined: 24 Feb 2019 Posts: 224 Location: under the car
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:08 pm Post subject:
Gazc2 wrote:
nice work I am watching with interest no doubt mine will need to come out at some point not brave enough to tackle it on my own though, you get up to speed and let me know when I can drop mine off
Will do Gazc2!
ok so the jobs list is growing. Coolant manifold at the back coming off tonight and going to strip the top end parts off and make up my parts order list. I may have to sacrifice the two turbo coolant lines (cut them near the turbo) so that I can see if the other turbo lines will come out then (the ones behind) and remove the turbos. Seems a little random how all the turbo feed lines are routed.. but Im sure Porsche had their reasons
Also going to remove the heat exchanger from the top of the block as it would be crazy not to replace the seals on that while the engine is apart. I would like to get it pressure tested but may have to jerry rig something up to do so as I don't imagine its a very popular request
I am going to re-fix the coolant pipes to the rear manifold as in the video I linked earlier up the thread. Makes sense and for me, preferable when the engine is in bits to 'pinning'. When I weighed up the two options, I think 'pinning' introduces a new potential leak point to the coolant sealing that Porsche didn't design to be there. it undoubtedly works and is much better than stock, but seeing as the engines going to be stripped it makes sense to do it fully, and it wont be a big job for me to do that.
I would far rather jbweld them back in and I will know they will never come out or leak again then.
Will also check the ones on the top of the engine when I can see them.
I noticed a bit of brown water when I removed the top left engine plate mount bolt (it was in the thread). This is the mount directly under the alternator coolant pipe (the notorious one) and also under the water pump. I looked but could not find evidence of a recent leak, so this could be coolant that got spilled when the garage did a lot of work on the car and replaced coolant hoses, aux water pump and some other bits or could be another leak. There has been no coolant under the car and the system was extensively vacuum tested by a garage after doing front coolant pipes. My guess is its a leak from above that went between the manifold and casting and got on the threads. Manifold will be off soon so I can check further then.
I will remove more risk by replacing the water pump as well because it looks original to me.
As others have said, a step by step & what to disconnect from where would be handy for everyone interested!
I like the idea of the JB weld too & if I was doing it, I think that's the route I'd take. I've seen some actually welded, but not sure how reliable that is on cast alloy.
Another thing worth checking would be the condition of the starter cable knowing the issues people have had with sluggish starting.
Worth doing the clutch & plugs maybe depending on mileage?
Looking forward to the rest of this!
_________________ 996 C4s (Gone)
997 Turbo
S3 Daily Driver
darkhorse Monza
Joined: 24 Feb 2019 Posts: 224 Location: under the car
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:03 pm Post subject:
Clanky wrote:
Good work!
As others have said, a step by step & what to disconnect from where would be handy for everyone interested!
I like the idea of the JB weld too & if I was doing it, I think that's the route I'd take. I've seen some actually welded, but not sure how reliable that is on cast alloy.
Another thing worth checking would be the condition of the starter cable knowing the issues people have had with sluggish starting.
Worth doing the clutch & plugs maybe depending on mileage?
Looking forward to the rest of this!
Yes, will do a guide with some pictures. I am sure welding is a good option, but I dont like the idea of the heat stress on the manifold and then potential pinhole leaks etc, so jbweld would fit my needs better.
Good point on the starter cable, will have a close look at that, cheers.
It's a tiptronic so I dont need to do the clutch but I will see how much I end up doing and then decide whether to remove the box and check the rear main seal. It seems to be be dry as a bone under there though so I may not bother.. but could regret that choice... so will see
Tiptronic had fluid changed 5k ago so that will be left for when its back in the car.
Going to do plugs and coils seeing as they are easy with the engine out. Think my parts list will be quite large at this rate
ragpicker Reims
Joined: 14 Apr 2013 Posts: 4060 Location: North East England
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:26 pm Post subject:
Fabulous work DarkHorse!
Another vote for pinning here. There's nothing more embarrassing than having an 'Inspector Gadget' Steam cloud and coolant slick behind your car as you power past a line of traffic on boost in 3rd.... I speak from experience
In my case, with the engine out I released all the bonded coolant pipes, re-glued them with epoxy and then pinned them so I new it would be a minimum of 20 years before the possibility of a leak from one of the joins. As you say just pinning them without rebonding them is a bit of a sticking plaster. If you've got the engine out it makes sense to do it properly.
Would even consider attempting that on axle stands! Hats off excellent work!
keendean Monza
Joined: 11 Aug 2011 Posts: 167 Location: Cambs
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:35 pm Post subject:
Hi DH, What are the turbo check valves?
My turbo lump is currently out, it had a small leak from an O ring on one of the oil coolers. I also replaced water pump, both vent lines, intake line and both coolers. I’ve then had all 7 pipes welded, I also added a new water expansion tank after talking with 9e as it’s another job that’s easier to do out than in I had to do a clutch too, so count yourself lucky I also replaced plugs with NGK plugs and gapped them too, this way if I decide to map in the future I’m ready. I’m hoping my turbos hold out for a few years, and look in OK condition. DW currently has my car, give Kev a call if you need any tips.
darkhorse Monza
Joined: 24 Feb 2019 Posts: 224 Location: under the car
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:03 pm Post subject:
ragpicker wrote:
Fabulous work DarkHorse!
Another vote for pinning here. There's nothing more embarrassing than having an 'Inspector Gadget' Steam cloud and coolant slick behind your car as you power past a line of traffic on boost in 3rd.... I speak from experience
In my case, with the engine out I released all the bonded coolant pipes, re-glued them with epoxy and then pinned them so I new it would be a minimum of 20 years before the possibility of a leak from one of the joins. As you say just pinning them without rebonding them is a bit of a sticking plaster. If you've got the engine out it makes sense to do it properly.
thanks ragpicker - ok I will redo the coolant pipes I can just picture the scenario your describing happening to me now if I dont do them!!!
Rojdog wrote:
Would even consider attempting that on axle stands! Hats off excellent work!
Cheers Rojdog, I've done worse and that's how I always benchmark any possible job !
keendean wrote:
Hi DH, What are the turbo check valves?
My turbo lump is currently out, it had a small leak from an O ring on one of the oil coolers. I also replaced water pump, both vent lines, intake line and both coolers. I’ve then had all 7 pipes welded, I also added a new water expansion tank after talking with 9e as it’s another job that’s easier to do out than in I had to do a clutch too, so count yourself lucky I also replaced plugs with NGK plugs and gapped them too, this way if I decide to map in the future I’m ready. I’m hoping my turbos hold out for a few years, and look in OK condition. DW currently has my car, give Kev a call if you need any tips.
I will grab a couple of pictures of them tonight, they stop oil draining back into the turbos on shutdown I believe (there is one on each bank), with failure meaning that one bank emits oil smoke briefly on startup from cold from oil that has settled in the turbocharger. Im sure DW will advise on whether its worth it to replace them or not. For me though I will clean and inspect mine and see first
Does anyone know if Pierberg is the OEM Porsche 997 turbo water pump make by any chance? There is a lot of fluff and waffle about what brand the genuine pumps are.
Autodoc are selling them at around £100+ cheaper than a stickered oem part, but allegedly they are the same thing?
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and feel embarrassed to offer an opinion but ........
I am watching with interest no doubt mine will need to come out at some point not brave enough to tackle it on my own though, you get up to speed and let me know when I can drop mine off 
Will do Gazc2!
I had to do a clutch too, so count yourself lucky 
I also replaced plugs with NGK plugs and gapped them too, this way if I decide to map in the future I’m ready. I’m hoping my turbos hold out for a few years, and look in OK condition. DW currently has my car, give Kev a call if you need any tips.
I can just picture the scenario your describing happening to me now if I dont do them!!!
