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mr gill
Monza


Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 230
Location: The Black Country


PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:27 am    Post subject: May be returning to the fold! Reply with quote

Hi All, if any of you 997 guys frequented the 996 posts, you may remember me contemplating selling my C4S... Well i actually did it last october, and i sold it for 1k more than i paid in 2012 - result!!
I then purchased an R8 V8, and wow what a car! its a masterpiece of engineering and much much faster than my 996.
Now to the reason for my post........ i have a new arrival and we can not go out as a family in it, because it only has 2 seats! So i am considering the move back to a 911. I would prefer a 991 or a 997 turbo but budget limits me to around 35-38k. This puts the 997 gen 2 C4S in my grasp, from research it seems they are holding value quite well, what do you 997 guys think? Are they as good as the reviews suggest?
_________________
2007 Audi R8 V8
2007 BMW 320d M Sport
2004 996 C4S X73 and Aerokitted - Gone
2007 Alfa 159 sportwagon 1.9jtdm decat, dpf/egr delete - Gone
Gone but not forgotten 2002 E46 M3
7 more 3 series BMW.... (yes I like them!)
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 15972
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure that you'll have much choice of cars at that budget.

Prices of Gen2 997s and particularly the C4S are still pretty firm at c£40k but you might pick one up privately.

Values of 991s are holding so well that, across the board, Gen2 997 Carreras are still sought after. The fact that you would need c£60k to get into a 991 C4S means a 997C4S at 2/3 of that is seen as great value for money.

The consensus in the press and from owners is that the 997 really was/is very good, especially in Gen2 guise.

Happy Hunting. Thumb
_________________
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ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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Lenny39
Newbie


Joined: 26 Oct 2018
Posts: 23



PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very happy with my 997.2 C4S. Had it 6 months now. I paid £44k from memory 1 previous owner, FPSH and every option ticked circa 40K miles. I think you will do very well to get one within that budget, unless its done a few miles.

Good luck anyway, hope you find one.
 
  
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Sean-f
Newbie


Joined: 23 Apr 2019
Posts: 33
Location: Northumberland


PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

to the OP, i was in a similar position to yourself I wanted a R8 but no way of taking the little one in it so got a Carrera S I would have like a 4s but the front luggage compartment was smaller and I need a stroller etc for baby (16 months old) so had to go for the 2wd for the extra space I'm not 100% sure but is are the rear seats slightly tighter in the 4S too which would further limit you on child seats which is a complete minefield, anyway good luck with your search and hopefully you find the right car soon.
 
  
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mr gill
Monza


Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 230
Location: The Black Country


PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
I'm not sure that you'll have much choice of cars at that budget.

Prices of Gen2 997s and particularly the C4S are still pretty firm at c£40k but you might pick one up privately.

Values of 991s are holding so well that, across the board, Gen2 997 Carreras are still sought after. The fact that you would need c£60k to get into a 991 C4S means a 997C4S at 2/3 of that is seen as great value for money.

The consensus in the press and from owners is that the 997 really was/is very good, especially in Gen2 guise.

Happy Hunting. Thumb


Very interesting... i would be happy with any 991 in all honesty, but they start from 45k, bit more than i want to spend, the baby is soaking up my money! haha
It makes complete sense that people are seeking out a gen 2 if the 991's are holding price so well.
Plenty of gen 2's around for less than 40. I'm not searching for a low mile garage queen, my 996 had 94k miles on it when i sold it and it still purred like new. (It was very well cared for in my ownership)

If i cant get into a 997 turbo or a 991 then i see the gen 2 C4S as the next best thing in my budget.

To most peoples dismay i do think about resale, and i try to pick cars that have 'bottomed out' like my 996 and my current R8. I'm not a rich individual, it has taken me a long time to build up to my R8, i dont want a car where i will lose half of that in the next 5 years.
Gen 2's are looking good at the moment
_________________
2007 Audi R8 V8
2007 BMW 320d M Sport
2004 996 C4S X73 and Aerokitted - Gone
2007 Alfa 159 sportwagon 1.9jtdm decat, dpf/egr delete - Gone
Gone but not forgotten 2002 E46 M3
7 more 3 series BMW.... (yes I like them!)
 
  
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s70rjw
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 26 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
Location: York


PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are 2 997.2 C4S for sale on Auto trader at £39,995 and another 2 slightly over. Does it have to be a 4S? My old 997.2 C2S is for sale at a dealer in the Midlands at £37975 if a 2 wheel drive is of interest. I part exchanged it, so have no financial interest. Let me know if you want more detail. Bob
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Hertsdriver
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 12 Nov 2018
Posts: 369
Location: Hertfordshire/London

2004 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mr gill wrote:

To most peoples dismay i do think about resale, and i try to pick cars that have 'bottomed out' like my 996 and my current R8. I'm not a rich individual, it has taken me a long time to build up to my R8, i dont want a car where i will lose half of that in the next 5 years.
Gen 2's are looking good at the moment


Phase 2 cars have nowhere near bottomed out, they still have a long way down to go IMO (another 10-15k at least) in line with what happened with the 996 and 997.1.

If you only want to look at a car thats bottomed out then a Gen 1 997 is more up your street I would have thought, a Targa 4S is a very nice car and very good value (and quite practical with the rear window opening)
 
  
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mr gill
Monza


Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 230
Location: The Black Country


PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hertsdriver wrote:
mr gill wrote:

To most peoples dismay i do think about resale, and i try to pick cars that have 'bottomed out' like my 996 and my current R8. I'm not a rich individual, it has taken me a long time to build up to my R8, i dont want a car where i will lose half of that in the next 5 years.
Gen 2's are looking good at the moment


Phase 2 cars have nowhere near bottomed out, they still have a long way down to go IMO (another 10-15k at least) in line with what happened with the 996 and 997.1.

If you only want to look at a car thats bottomed out then a Gen 1 997 is more up your street I would have thought, a Targa 4S is a very nice car and very good value (and quite practical with the rear window opening)


I definitely dont want a gen 1, thats a step backwards from my R8. Maybe my only option is a high mile 997 turbo...
_________________
2007 Audi R8 V8
2007 BMW 320d M Sport
2004 996 C4S X73 and Aerokitted - Gone
2007 Alfa 159 sportwagon 1.9jtdm decat, dpf/egr delete - Gone
Gone but not forgotten 2002 E46 M3
7 more 3 series BMW.... (yes I like them!)
 
  
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mr gill
Monza


Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 230
Location: The Black Country


PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

s70rjw wrote:
There are 2 997.2 C4S for sale on Auto trader at £39,995 and another 2 slightly over. Does it have to be a 4S? My old 997.2 C2S is for sale at a dealer in the Midlands at £37975 if a 2 wheel drive is of interest. I part exchanged it, so have no financial interest. Let me know if you want more detail. Bob


I count 12 gen 2 C4S on Autotrader at less than 40k....
Thanks for the info but i prefer the 4S.
_________________
2007 Audi R8 V8
2007 BMW 320d M Sport
2004 996 C4S X73 and Aerokitted - Gone
2007 Alfa 159 sportwagon 1.9jtdm decat, dpf/egr delete - Gone
Gone but not forgotten 2002 E46 M3
7 more 3 series BMW.... (yes I like them!)
 
  
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Magic919
Suzuka


Joined: 05 Jun 2013
Posts: 1239
Location: Berkshire


PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the C4S remains a favourite in the range. I went from 996.2 to 997.2 and it shows signs of progress, as you’d expect. Six years later, it’s still a great car. They are cheaper now, but they haven’t lost as much money as I expected.
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mr gill
Monza


Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 230
Location: The Black Country


PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Magic919 wrote:
I think the C4S remains a favourite in the range. I went from 996.2 to 997.2 and it shows signs of progress, as you’d expect. Six years later, it’s still a great car. They are cheaper now, but they haven’t lost as much money as I expected.


Thats good feedback, appreciate it! do you think it is a more refined drive than the 996? I worry that it will feel old and rattly compared to the R8.
_________________
2007 Audi R8 V8
2007 BMW 320d M Sport
2004 996 C4S X73 and Aerokitted - Gone
2007 Alfa 159 sportwagon 1.9jtdm decat, dpf/egr delete - Gone
Gone but not forgotten 2002 E46 M3
7 more 3 series BMW.... (yes I like them!)
 
  
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James M-S
Suzuka


Joined: 11 Apr 2017
Posts: 1069
Location: Derbyshire

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a nutshell;
More tyre noise, less engine noise in a 997.2 vs an R8. (I've only spent time in an early V8 R8 )

Although the 997.2 is a comfortable enough place to be, I would struggle to call it refined compared to an Aston. (although apparently adding sound deadening material -dynamat or similar, behind rear cards to isolate rear wheel arches helps a lot).


911 offers the best in terms of rear seats though, and rewarding to drive (but you know that!)
_________________
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Last edited by James M-S on Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 15972
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mr gill wrote:


I definitely dont want a gen 1, thats a step backwards from my R8. Maybe my only option is a high mile 997 turbo...



I haven't seen a 997 Turbo with any number of miles on it for under £40k since they bottomed out in 2015.
_________________
2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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tom_nieto
Monza


Joined: 08 Jan 2017
Posts: 246



PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mr gill wrote:


I definitely dont want a gen 1, thats a step backwards from my R8. Maybe my only option is a high mile 997 turbo...


I can understand the reasons for wanting a gen 2 over a gen 1 in terms of PDK, engine reliability and perhaps a newer PCM module, but fundamentally they are the same car in NA guise. There are a few more horses available in the gen 2 "S", but it's not a quantum leap in power unless you're looking at a Turbo.

The 997.2 still has some depreciating to do. It won't be fast, but values will be on a downward trend.

A rebuilt, cherished, 997.1 is quite a compelling option at the moment as the prices are getting towards the bottom of the curve, and with a good rebuild might have bottomed out. You'll have a decent chunk of cash left in your pocket too. A 997.2 has more of a way to travel and we've seen these cars well under £40k for a while now. If you plan to drive any 911 you'll lose cash. They're very sensitive to mileage.

If you can, hold out for a Turbo at this budget. You'll struggle to get a really nice facelift C4S I think, but you might get lucky. Realistically you should be trying to get into the nicest 997.2 C2S that you can find.

Good luck with the search.
 
  
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MattyR
Hockenheim


Joined: 21 Sep 2015
Posts: 665
Location: Somewhere Nr Tunbridge Wells, Kent


PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure on the argument that Gen 2 values will go south by a huge amount. Yes they will naturally depreciate (they are not air cooled and I doubt 997s will ever be mirroring the air cooled camp with meteoric price hikes. Although that remains to be seen. Maybe we need a Magnus Walker-type to make ‘em cool). They will certainly never reach the bottom of the Gen 1 curve (assuming that has actually stopped, of course). Anyways, sorry to hijack with talk of values! Most uncouth.

I would, obviously, whole heartedly support the decision to go 997 Gen 2. They are such able daily drives, family cars and, in the two-wheel-drive offering, capable luggage hauliers. You’ll also do fine with a child seat. Not sure on a rear facing seat though.. you may want to check that!

The other option is an Aston Martin Rapide. Long old whip though.
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mr gill
Monza


Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 230
Location: The Black Country


PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
mr gill wrote:


I definitely dont want a gen 1, thats a step backwards from my R8. Maybe my only option is a high mile 997 turbo...



I haven't seen a 997 Turbo with any number of miles on it for under £40k since they bottomed out in 2015.


There have been several for sale under 40 in the last 12 months, the last being a high mile turbo cat d for 37.5k on eBay with full service history.
_________________
2007 Audi R8 V8
2007 BMW 320d M Sport
2004 996 C4S X73 and Aerokitted - Gone
2007 Alfa 159 sportwagon 1.9jtdm decat, dpf/egr delete - Gone
Gone but not forgotten 2002 E46 M3
7 more 3 series BMW.... (yes I like them!)
 
  
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T8
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Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 15972
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mr gill wrote:


T8 wrote:


I haven't seen a 997 Turbo with any number of miles on it for under £40k since they bottomed out in 2015.


There have been several for sale under 40 in the last 12 months, the last being a high mile turbo cat d for 37.5k on eBay with full service history.



High mile

Cat d

eBay

and still £37.5k

"Several under 40 in the last 12 months" ....... where Question

and .......... if you could find one, would you really want one like that?
_________________
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ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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Hertsdriver
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 12 Nov 2018
Posts: 369
Location: Hertfordshire/London

2004 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

not sure on Turbos but there's 7 Gen 2 C4S on autotrader under £40k right now.... 6 PDK and one Manual... all 60-70k apart from one over 80k....

There's also one C4S Targa at £39k with 70k

Personally im not sure its worth dishing out an additional £10k for the extra 2 wheels to be driven (given that ion most situations you cant really tell the difference), early gen 2 C2S are starting at £30k
 
  
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T8
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Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 15972
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:


I haven't seen a 997 Turbo with any number of miles on it for under £40k since they bottomed out in 2015.



And just to prove me wrong. Embarassed

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201906088805413?price-from=35000&sort=price-asc&make=PORSCHE&postcode=tn279qy&advertising-location=at_cars&radius=1500&model=911&price-to=40000&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&page=4

Nice colour too. Wink

It's certainly well worth a look I'd say.
_________________
2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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Sean-f
Newbie


Joined: 23 Apr 2019
Posts: 33
Location: Northumberland


PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
T8 wrote:


I haven't seen a 997 Turbo with any number of miles on it for under £40k since they bottomed out in 2015.



And just to prove me wrong. Embarassed

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201906088805413?price-from=35000&sort=price-asc&make=PORSCHE&postcode=tn279qy&advertising-location=at_cars&radius=1500&model=911&price-to=40000&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&page=4

Nice colour too. Wink

It's certainly well worth a look I'd say.


best colour I would say but I am biased,

133k are these Mezger engined cars really that good where that milage would not be a concern? sorry i am quite new to Porsche.
 
  
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