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jboy
Trainee


Joined: 30 May 2017
Posts: 81



PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:14 pm    Post subject: 997.1 turbo - to PPI or not to PPI? Reply with quote

Hi people - this may sound like a stupid question so forgive me.

I own a 996 and have very happily owned one for 2 years. An opportunity has come up to potentially move on (and up?) to a 997.1 turbo. I am obviously well aware of the issues that might be suffered by a 996 engine and the general advice to always have a PPI but does this apply without fail to a 997.1 turbo as well or if you were buying from a reputable (albeit small) dealer would you be relatively comfortable.....?
 
  
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Rhodris-dad
Hockenheim


Joined: 28 Nov 2013
Posts: 666
Location: RHYL

2015 Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Points you should consider.....what sort of warranty will you be getting?
Remember, warranty companies will cover labour but on a car that age will only pay a percentage of the cost of parts.

The car will be over 10 years old...so irrespective of mileage, it will have something that will need attention now or possibly in the near future.

Has the dealer got lots of bills of previous work done to the car?


IMHO spending a few hundred quid on PPI makes sense as if you get it wrong, your wallet will be soon emptied.

Good luck Thumb
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easternjets
Watkins Glen


Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 2032
Location: Darlington


PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Gen 1 turbo has the Metzger engine and a manual or tip box. As this is a completely different engine from the std, non Turbo car they are free from things such as IMS problems.
The gearboxes as well are pretty reliable, the mnuals generally only suffer from cables snapping. The Tip's are more or less bullet proof and the only problems they have is if oil is not changed and filters get blocked which can start to show with slow clunky gear changes.
I had a Gen 1 and due to it's age they can suffer from items failing due to age and corrosion. Check for the plugs and coils being serviced/changed, the coil packs do start to deteriorate and split and this can only be checked by removing them.
Radiators are another expensive repair, if the rads are original then they will more than likely need changing, better this than have them go pop on a long trip. A front rad is about £300 and there are 3 of them. Same with AC condensers, due to where they are they get a lot of debris into them, leaves sweety papers etc, they are located on the left and right side at the front. I usually take a torch and shine it in to the openings to see if they're chocked up.
Check tyres, brakes pads and discs and history of car in case of accident damage. Also on mine the water pump was leaking, didn't think this would be a big issue but it is, as it's a PIA to change and a main dealer will probably charge you best part of a grand to fix it, look for a coolant drip on the rear passenger side just below where the number plate starts.
With regular servicing the engines are pretty much bomb proof, it's normally the bits that attached that fail.
Good luck, remember any doubts walk away.
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 15639
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I would get the car inspected as it may throw up things that need doing and that can be negotiated in to the purchase price.

If it doesn't the money spent will be worth it for the peace of mind.

In the unlikely event that something major shows up you will have the choice of getting the seller to sort it prior to purchase or to just walk away.
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ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6767
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A PPI imho can be worth its weight in gold ... it will say what problems there might be with the car before you buy it .
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Ishay
Monza


Joined: 28 Aug 2015
Posts: 230



PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn’t because I’m too cool for all that and I like to live on the edge...

Should have done, the turbo exhaust sections were corroded, only half covered by warranty. Two years later it’s been a very good car, but a ppi could have caught that I guess. It’s becoming common ish on these at this age, so that alone should be checked.

Not 996 engine money and not catastrophic. But VVTs aren’t a cheap bit of kit or easy to access (see recent thread on DIYing them)

PS - buy one, you won’t regret it
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Ishay
Monza


Joined: 28 Aug 2015
Posts: 230



PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=133780
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Current: BMW X1 2.0d
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apollokre1d
Sepang


Joined: 06 Nov 2012
Posts: 2939
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
Personally I would get the car inspected as it may throw up things that need doing and that can be negotiated in to the purchase price.

If it doesn't the money spent will be worth it for the peace of mind.

In the unlikely event that something major shows up you will have the choice of getting the seller to sort it prior to purchase or to just walk away.


Yeah Get the PPI, money well spent.
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cheshire911
Estoril


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3828



PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get a PPI! The turbo can eat your bank account for breakfast! The engine is bullet proof but there are lots of expensive repairs lurking on msny cars due to age, mileage and short-cut maintenance. Service advisories may also have been neglected over a couple of services and its looking for a new gullible friendly owner to reach into his bank account to fix them.

Best £300 you'll spend to find a good one from the beginning.
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"Once bitten; forever smitten"

Last edited by cheshire911 on Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:12 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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jboy
Trainee


Joined: 30 May 2017
Posts: 81



PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all of the advice guys.

Will see how this one pans out!
 
  
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sackerley
Monza


Joined: 16 Mar 2016
Posts: 195



PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely get a PPI. The last time I was at my indie a chap had bought a 997.1 turbo rom a mate, no PPI. He was looking at an 8/10K bills for all sorts of bits that needed attention.

The garage did warn him he should get it checked too, but didn't.
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FZP
Estoril


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 3510
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

100% PPI. A simple thing like a leaking steering rack is circa £2.5k, not to mention all the other turbo related gubbins that tend to fail. Anything found can be used to negotiate the price to cover the costs
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keendean
Monza


Joined: 11 Aug 2011
Posts: 157
Location: Cambs


PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had mine a year, it's had both AC condensers, a 10 year service, plus a new belt. Engine is out, so new coil packs, plugs, fuel filter, water pump, oil to water coolers, and the water lines are being welded, also having a new clutch as the car is at 45k. Engine is out due to a very small leak, which has taken time to find from one of the o-rings on the oil cooler. Mine had new brakes all round when I bought it. Budget for an exhaust, as they sound dire, esp if coming from a NA PSE car, approx 2k. I am also replacing the turbo vent lines, and the intake pipe, as they are prone to rusting on the joins, and will also need a new tandem pump cover. After this, just modify it, and drive it Thumb
They are getting on, and need care and attention and a decent indy working on it, all in all and expensive year. That said, a PPI may be worth it, but I just jumped in feet first Smile
 
  
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jboy
Trainee


Joined: 30 May 2017
Posts: 81



PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keendean wrote:
I've had mine a year, it's had both AC condensers, a 10 year service, plus a new belt. Engine is out, so new coil packs, plugs, fuel filter, water pump, oil to water coolers, and the water lines are being welded, also having a new clutch as the car is at 45k. Engine is out due to a very small leak, which has taken time to find from one of the o-rings on the oil cooler. Mine had new brakes all round when I bought it. Budget for an exhaust, as they sound dire, esp if coming from a NA PSE car, approx 2k. I am also replacing the turbo vent lines, and the intake pipe, as they are prone to rusting on the joins, and will also need a new tandem pump cover. After this, just modify it, and drive it Thumb
They are getting on, and need care and attention and a decent indy working on it, all in all and expensive year. That said, a PPI may be worth it, but I just jumped in feet first Smile


Wow..... at least you own a 997 turbo though! My friend pays £1k a month for a Range Rover he will never own and he doesnt even need the rear seats .....
 
  
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Desert Dragon
Nürburgring


Joined: 03 May 2017
Posts: 445



PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You 100% should carry out a PPI on a 997.1 turbo. If they’re used as dd or worse just sat around in my experience they cost a fair chunk more to run than their cooking siblings and there’s lots of owners who buy and run them and when/if anything goes wrong the cars are beyond their means to fix properly.

Common with all old Porsche’s but a turbo has the ability to empty ones wallet particularly quickly.

An engine rebuild is min £15k. Gearbox £10k. A pair of new turbos circa £5k. Rads, condensers, oil and water leaks. Not quite the same but there’s a 997 GT2 sat at an Indy at the moment with no engine. Poor owner doesn’t know what to do with it as it needs a new engine having recently bought the car. LHD car so a difficult decision for him. Thought he’s nicked the car off the seller for £75k and now doesn’t know what to do with it post blowing engine
 
  
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apollokre1d
Sepang


Joined: 06 Nov 2012
Posts: 2939
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desert Dragon wrote:
Not quite the same but there’s a 997 GT2 sat at an Indy at the moment with no engine. Poor owner doesn’t know what to do with it as it needs a new engine having recently bought the car. LHD car so a difficult decision for him. Thought he’s nicked the car off the seller for £75k and now doesn’t know what to do with it post blowing engine


Are you permitted to say which indy? A working LHD 997 GT2 would be worth at least £100K depending on condition right? Why doesn't he just fix and sell it? Or is it missing more than the engine?
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Desert Dragon
Nürburgring


Joined: 03 May 2017
Posts: 445



PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollokre1d wrote:
Desert Dragon wrote:
Not quite the same but there’s a 997 GT2 sat at an Indy at the moment with no engine. Poor owner doesn’t know what to do with it as it needs a new engine having recently bought the car. LHD car so a difficult decision for him. Thought he’s nicked the car off the seller for £75k and now doesn’t know what to do with it post blowing engine


Are you permitted to say which indy? A working LHD 997 GT2 would be worth at least £100K depending on condition right? Why doesn't he just fix and sell it? Or is it missing more than the engine?


It’s an ex Middle East LHD car which looks like it’s been a track slag. Cars sat outside Porsche Torque. There’s a fair bit of damage to the engine and someone’s already tried to fix it once. May well be that cheapest option is to order an exchange engine from Porsche direct. Think approx £30k inc vat from Porsche but may we’ll be far more than this for GT2 engine as I’m estimating what a 997 turbo engine costs at £30k. GT2 will add to cost as turbos more expensive etc and Porsche sells these engine on exchange basis with turbos etc attached.
 
  
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apollokre1d
Sepang


Joined: 06 Nov 2012
Posts: 2939
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers for that, you're right that is a tough situation for the owner.
Sorry for the thread highjack everyone Smile
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easternjets
Watkins Glen


Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 2032
Location: Darlington


PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desert Dragon, I think your painting a particularly negative picture of Turbo's and their owners.
Yes if they're abused they can cost you a fair chunk of money but 'if' they're regularly serviced and the oil is changed regularly and they haven't been 'modernised' then they're a pretty reliable car to own.
As mentioned a good PPI will show up the neglected cars pretty quickly, it's hard to hide leaks and rattles!
As for servicing, mines going in for a major service next month which will cost £995, which isn't cheap but that is only once every 4 years and servicing is biannual anyway so most people should be able to afford that. I'm doing the service at an OPC as well to keep the history spot on.
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 15639
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desert Dragon wrote:


....... If they’re used as dd or worse just sat around in my experience they cost a fair chunk more to run than their cooking siblings and there’s lots of owners who buy and run them and when/if anything goes wrong the cars are beyond their means to fix properly.



I've had mine for over 4 years and done 23k miles. Apart from routine servicing being a little bit more expensive I can't think of anything that mine has cost that would have been cheaper if I'd been running a Carrera.

Like any car there will always be those that have been run on a budget and have been a bit neglected but I think this would account for a very small percentage of 997T owners. Unlike the 996T they never came down to the sort of money that would have attracted those with a shoestring budget.
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