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RWD_cossie_wil
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 13 Feb 2010
Posts: 357
Location: Stourbridge, West Mids


PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where/when will the results be released? thumbsup
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2003 Arctic Silver 996 turbo manual, 9E 30 tuned... Holy F***!!!
F10 M5 competition pack daily driver
 
  
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SaintsPaul
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 17 Nov 2012
Posts: 338
Location: Hants


PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RWD_cossie_wil wrote:
Where/when will the results be released? thumbsup

I believe the article is in the December magazine so should be available next month thumbsup
 
  
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MisterCorn
Dijon


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 7249
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I allowed to post links to the results on here?

MC
 
  
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maldren
Suzuka


Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 1180



PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes please Martin, Chris at CG is still to analyse his results.

thanks
Mike
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Mike
2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
 
  
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MisterCorn
Dijon


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 7249
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a spreadsheet of the results with links to videos available here (copy and paste the entire link)

https://1drv.ms/x/s!AhJOElHCD2mljI4hC8QecpFBo5VTAw?e=V7AqUQ

I think you will need to be running Office365 to view that.




Here are a couple of screenshots from the data







You can download the full data from here:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhJOElHCD2mljI4z14RYNBqGYShQwg?e=xReEc9

To open the data you will need to download the software from here:

Race Technology software download

MC
 
  
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Dammit
Indianapolis


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 2344



PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get the response "can't open file in Excel online as it's over 5Mb", so can you cut to the chase and just state that my car was the best on test?
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maldren
Suzuka


Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 1180



PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Neil,
yours did well but the stand out car was the CSR - it was on CUP 2 tyres and Chris and Pete thought that was probably why although it was obviously well set up as well.
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Mike
2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
 
  
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maldren
Suzuka


Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 1180



PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duplicate post, sorry
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2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver

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peterg1955
Silverstone


Joined: 09 Apr 2017
Posts: 100
Location: Berkshire


PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dammit wrote:
I get the response "can't open file in Excel online as it's over 5Mb", so can you cut to the chase and just state that my car was the best on test?


Floor all hail the cab worship worship
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2002 996 C2 black/black with aerokit and M030
 
  
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edh
Newbie


Joined: 25 Apr 2009
Posts: 37



PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like dark coloured cars are better Smile
 
  
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maldren
Suzuka


Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 1180



PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll post my 2 penneth on ride while we wait for Chris and Pete's data analysis.

The handling results above are from a comparison around an 18m circle. Comments from Pete (who was driving) was that there wasn't a great deal of subjective difference between the cars in terms of grip. Tyres were the limiting factor and most cars were on Michelins. The car with CUP2 tyres had the best grip, it also had track focussed suspension.

Foolishly, I didn't note registration nos against car spec so I can't identify all the cars but Jamie's car is on Goodyears and mine has Pirellis on the front, can't bring myself to throw out fairly new tyres that the car came with!

My interest was ride but I only drove other cars on the track so I'm very keen to see Chris's road test results. He took each car along a varied road loop and measured vibration input on the passenger seat mounting rails.

As expected, my car with standard Ohlins (60/120NM) is far too hard for road use. The problem is particularly bad at the rear. It's no use having great dampers if the springs are so stiff they don't move! Of the other Ohlins cars Neil and Stephen have 90Nm on the rear and that's much better. Steve Bennett has 60NM and it rides magnificently. Neil has stock 60Nm on the front and the Stephens have 40Nm. I didn't do a back to back comparison but I would say that the car is more sensitive to the rear springs. I didn't compare over/understeer as a result of the springs and we didn't play with damper settings.

As an aside, I've been running on softer tyre pressures to compensate for the springs. For the test day, I went with Porsche spec pressures and found that, if anything, the ride improved - probably the dampers doing some work rather than the tyres!

Neil/Steve/Stephen have you any comments to add?

Ian's car on Bilstein PSS9s was good, very well sorted but I'm not sure of his spring rates.

Tommy's car on Konis was well damped but the lowered springs with reduced travel had some issues.

Given the standard car rates are 26/53 and the GT3 is 43/80, Ohlins are clearly too stiff for road use - my car was good on the smooth sections of the track.

Comments from other participants?
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2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
 
  
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Dammit
Indianapolis


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 2344



PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mike, I just dug out the invoice and mine are 40 front and 90 rear - I got it wrong on the day with regards to the fronts.
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Marky911
Magny-Cours


Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 2626



PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good info chaps.

MY02 CSR is a lovely looking car. Cool


I'd heard that Steve Bennett fitted those softer rear spring to the Ohlins and he then found it too soft?
I think sometimes it can be a fruitless mission to try and make a sports car ride like a limo.

I'd be interested to know Chris and Pete's thoughts on ideal spring rates for road use on a C2. I'm guessing those rates will apply to a GT3 too given the similar weight and RWD platform.

Watching with interest. Thumb
 
  
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Dammit
Indianapolis


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 2344



PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When we were out on the road loop Chris said that my car would be his choice to drive home in, but then he may have said that to everyone!
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Marky911
Magny-Cours


Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 2626



PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah he does Neil. As I say to my wife “You’re a salesman’s dream you are”. Grin

Only joking! I think Chris is always straight up on what he favours. I imagine yours will be the sweet spot.
Craig’s rates ikon his C2 are the standard rears but we aren’t sure if std is now 90 or still the 120. It rides really well though although the rear is a bit harsher than the KWs they replaced, so I’d guess 120 maybe.

60 sounds way too soft to me. Half of the originals.

I don’t know what my Manthey KWs are but they’re absolutely fine for road use. I have my dampers wound back to 3 from minimum though so I’m thinking if I go for softer springs I can probably go up on the damper settings and maybe get things even better. Question
 
  
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peterg1955
Silverstone


Joined: 09 Apr 2017
Posts: 100
Location: Berkshire


PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woohoo, mine is er, at the top of those results worship Cool Dont know Hand yeah I know it's not the fastest but who cares... Floor

DF02 HRD - the spec is Basalt Black 2002 gen2 c2 coupe on 65k miles with factory fitted M030 sports suspension option - all arms/joints refreshed by CG 2 years ago but dampers are originals (Chris said they were well within tolerance.

I'm running Michelin PS4 tyres 225/40x18 front and 275/35x18 rear and they had 10k miles on them at the test day (still 5mm+ left on all of them)

Steve Bennett took my car out for a few laps so I'm interested to hear what his thoughts were but he did say after trying it that his car was too soft...

I had a go in a couple of other cars and to be honest the differences weren't great in the limited time we had but I'm glad I tried them as it reassured me that mine felt really good.
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SDJC
Trainee


Joined: 28 Jul 2013
Posts: 53
Location: Southport, Merseyside


PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

During the road test Chris said that the ride was jiggly but not uncomfortable. I had the dampers set at 17 clicks down from full hard. I am waiting to hear Chris' comments on all the cars but am considering changing the rear springs to 70 or. 80 which would be a better match to the front/rear weight distribution.and hopefully reduce the jiggly nature of the ride. My car is set at standard ride height because of the need to get out of my drive without destroying the front lip.
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skinny_monkey
Nürburgring


Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Posts: 456



PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the spectral density data from the road test might be a bit more illuminating.
The suspension isn't doing much in steady state, it's more from tyres. Still interesting - i win the "how much can you lean" competition Smile
 
  
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MisterCorn
Dijon


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 7249
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skinny_monkey wrote:
I think the spectral density data from the road test might be a bit more illuminating.
The suspension isn't doing much in steady state, it's more from tyres. Still interesting - i win the "how much can you lean" competition Smile


That's what I said, or at least I said a good slalom and some dynamics would be more insightful. Only so much you can do with data from a constant speed circle.

MC
 
  
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skinny_monkey
Nürburgring


Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Posts: 456



PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, though still a good day out.

It would be interesting to see if increased roll stiffness reduces grip from increased weight transfer to loaded tyres in steady state. Ive heard arguments both ways.
 
  
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