Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 8:17 am Post subject: Suspension. Comparing damper options
Last summer I had Ohlins fitted with standard springs and I'm now sure they are too stiff for UK road use so what's the best option?
911UK posters have fitted standard and M030, various Bilstein options, Konis, KW etc as well as Ohlins with different springs and posted their views but (like me) it's usually comparing with previous worn suspension.
911 & Porsche World editor Steve Bennett has been through the Ohlins options with Center Gravity so I contacted him with the idea of having a comparison day and we're looking at sometime in late July at and around Bruntingthorpe. CG will not only bring their expertise, they will also have some accelerometers and recording gear to add a degree of objectivity.
Obviously there are too many variables for this to be totally objective (tyres, C4 vs C2, early vs late cars, suspension settings and age, engine and gearbox mounts etc.) but we have decided to base the comparison on 996 coupés (not turbos, GT3s, cabs).
If you have any ideas/comments, please add replies below.
So far we have Ohlins with standard, soft and very soft springs pencilled in. If you have one of the alternatives and would like to take part, please PM me and we can take it forwards.
Mike _________________ Mike
2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
Hi Mike
You have a pm.
Stephen _________________ 996.2 C2 Meridian Silver.
Jamesx19 Nürburgring
Joined: 10 Jul 2015 Posts: 471 Location: Brighton
Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 10:48 am Post subject:
I suspect that budget / circuit or road use / complexity are deciders for going coilover route or sticking to lowering springs and uprated damper option?
Could you compare apples with apples ie if available, Ohlin's / KW's / Bilstein PSS / any other coilover.
Then group 2, Koni / Bilstein B6or8 / MO30 etc. Together with their Eibach or H&R or MO30 springs?
Could maybe then draw comparison with best of group2 with coilover?
Potentially a big test! _________________ 1998 C2 Manual + The Full Hartech.
maldren Suzuka
Joined: 07 Oct 2016 Posts: 1162
Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 11:24 am Post subject:
Yes, we do need to set some objectives. My initial interest is ride quality for road use but we should also be able to do some handling assessment as well.
Perhaps we need to set up a slalom on the track?
I'm keen to see how much difference there really is between the different options. For me it's the Which magazine conundrum; they rate everything with stars but I'm never sure whether there is actually much difference between 1 and 5 stars. _________________ Mike
2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
Y2K Montreal
Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Posts: 520 Location: Hampshire
Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 11:45 am Post subject:
Sounds interesting and fun.
I had a ride in cobrars’ C2, fitted with Ohlins and set up by CG, and I was very impressed.
I thought the ride quality, at below 30mph, was very very good and better than my old C2 (MO30, never replaced / renewed AFAIK) and my current car. Obviously mine’s chassis is stiffer and with different hardware & set-up but nevertheless. _________________ 2005 996 GT3 mk2
1999 Integra DC2
Gooey36 Silverstone
Joined: 23 Aug 2017 Posts: 135
Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 2:33 pm Post subject:
PM sent, just fitting a full new M030 kit... _________________ Current: 2003 996.2 C2
Daily: 2016 Audi A4 Avant S-Line TDi,
R53 Cooper S (not standard!)
Stotty Monza
Joined: 17 Dec 2009 Posts: 164 Location: Surrey
Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:38 am Post subject:
My car is on Koni's/H&R ARBs/RSS engine mounts. I can attend late July, but no later than that as I have Fastnet 1st week in August, then I'm off to Spain for 3 months. _________________ 2000 996, C2, manual, arctic/metropole, Koni shocks, H&R -30 springs, H&R ARB's, Rennline SS engine mounts, cup wheel, 170k miles. 2018 Touareg RLine Plus
MaxA Albert Park
Joined: 11 Oct 2015 Posts: 1614 Location: Helsinki
Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 11:52 am Post subject:
I don't mean to jump in from the sidelines but it occurs to me that it would be really useful to collect the spring rates from the manufacturers so that you can compare one set up to another properly (with the information for the rates for the front and back separately), although obviously there is a key difference between the progressive rate springs and straight springs. _________________ 997.2 Carrera4S: white over blue, driven and tracked, seldom clean.
pye21 Trainee
Joined: 11 Mar 2014 Posts: 76
Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 12:29 pm Post subject:
Id be happy to come along, dates dependent.
1999 3.4 Carrera, Bilstein PSS9's, Eibach ARB, every bush & arm replaced. All suspension parts where new 6k ago. Car is known by and setup by CG.
maldren Suzuka
Joined: 07 Oct 2016 Posts: 1162
Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 8:08 pm Post subject:
Just a placeholder, we now have most of the suspension options.
I'm waiting for CG to confirm dates and I'll add a list of everyone who is interested and a starter for 10 on what we should aim to achieve.
Mike _________________ Mike
2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
NedHan79 Montreal
Joined: 08 Nov 2018 Posts: 508
Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 7:26 am Post subject:
This is a first class idea that will be very useful to everyone that is a member on here. I’m in Northern Ireland so this isn’t handy for me but will be watching with great interest. I recently fitted spax springs I got second hand on my original mo30 with 75k on the clock. I think that they are slightly softer than the mo30 springs but I found those very hard for my part of the world. I’d like coil overs at some stage but way down the line as I’ve a lot of other work to sort first.
I haven’t look at a geo set up yet as I will do a lot of the bushes in the next while.
It’d be interesting to also see how standard vs poly bush makes a difference but you could be there for a week sorting all the different options.
Anyways, good luck and thanks as this will help us all _________________ #modified996mk1
SaintsPaul Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 17 Nov 2012 Posts: 336 Location: Hants
Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:31 pm Post subject:
Did this comparison test ever go ahead ?
jond58 Monza
Joined: 19 Jun 2017 Posts: 202
Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:46 pm Post subject:
If you want compliance and performance in numerous parameters you’re going to want masses of adjustment. High and low speed compression and rebound etc but then you’ll need a suspension guru setting it up each time you go out!
Slippydiff Nürburgring
Joined: 22 Nov 2007 Posts: 400
Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:56 pm Post subject:
jond58 wrote:
If you want compliance and performance in numerous parameters you’re going to want masses of adjustment. High and low speed compression and rebound etc but then you’ll need a suspension guru setting it up each time you go out!
I run some old though very high end (pre TTX) Ohlins 3 way adjustable dampers on my Mk 1 996 GT3. More on them in this thread :
If the spring rates and valving are carefully considered and well chosen, you really won’t need to adjust them once you’ve established a good baseline setting. Granted you may need the individual who built/valved them to establish the baseline high/low speed compression settings and the rebound settings, but once done, I’ve found them to be fit and forget.
They were built solely for fast road use, but rest assured, they were massively impressive around Oulton, and I’d suggest they’d probably cope admirably with The ‘Ring too.
Don’t be out off by their apparent complexity, just get someone to build and set them up who knows their stuff, then enjoy the vastly underated benefits of them
EGTE Imola
Joined: 06 Jul 2015 Posts: 835
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:29 am Post subject:
I think there's some EXE-TC stuff lying about in my in-tray somewhere, if it might be useful.
maldren Suzuka
Joined: 07 Oct 2016 Posts: 1162
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:10 pm Post subject:
We're looking at Sept 26th now, CG and Porsche &911 World are in as are several of us here.
Anyone else interested please PM me. I'm on holiday until the end of the month but I am picking up 911UK fairly frequently.
We're especially interested in non standard damper/spring combos, we have a good selection of Ohlins going. Not sure that we have a standard car yet either!
When I get back, I'll post a starter for 10 outline for the day for comments.
Mike _________________ Mike
2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
SaintsPaul Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 17 Nov 2012 Posts: 336 Location: Hants
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:05 pm Post subject:
You have PM Mike
Jamesx19 Nürburgring
Joined: 10 Jul 2015 Posts: 471 Location: Brighton
Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:03 pm Post subject:
Where is it going to be held Mike? _________________ 1998 C2 Manual + The Full Hartech.
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