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sackerley
Monza


Joined: 16 Mar 2016
Posts: 174



PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 7:36 pm    Post subject: Transmission rattle? Now with added blue smoke! Reply with quote

Hi all. Hopefully one of you might have an idea on what this could be.

My cars developed a rattle underneath, like something’s loose. It disappears when the clutch is pressed. Any idea on what could be causing a rattle that’s linked to the clutch, gearbox etc?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ijwxugd4jb08ev9/E525062F-BB62-4924-BCCE-BEBC73EB0D1B.MOV?dl=0
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Last edited by sackerley on Sun May 19, 2019 3:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6519
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best guess .. its the clutch release bearing chattering .

How old is the clutch ?
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sackerley
Monza


Joined: 16 Mar 2016
Posts: 174



PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeMort thanks for the quick response.

Is that a big job?

The clutch was replaced at the end of 2015 and done 10k since then.
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6519
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It shouldn't really be rattling at that milage since a clutch replacement .. but i'm afraid i have nothing else to offer .

Diagnosing here and in real life are a little different i'm afraid .

i would suggest a garage to have a listen perhaps .

Release bearing change is a gearbox out job so circa 5 hrs .
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sackerley
Monza


Joined: 16 Mar 2016
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks DeMort. Totally appreciate it’s difficult to diagnose on here.

If it’s any help I’ve noted that it happens when warm, from cold there’s no rattle. Also turning off the AC it’s struggling to tick over. It keeps running but feels like it may cut out. Switch the AC back on and it ticks over fine.

Dont know
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
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Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok .. that's a different fault .

its not ticking over without a/c on .. a.c will raise the revs . if not you will get gearbox chatter with the tickover too low .

I'm thinking idle control and if its an early car then there is a separate idle stabiliser on the side of the throttle that can cause issues .

perhaps remove , clean it out and see how it goes .
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sackerley
Monza


Joined: 16 Mar 2016
Posts: 174



PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great! I’ll give that a try tomorrow night and see how it goes.

Your input is very much appreciated Thumb
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sackerley
Monza


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Posts: 174



PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok... update.

I’ve taken off the throttle body and the idle controller and give the them a good clean. Although there wasn’t much to clean. The rattle is still there when I’ve re fitted them.

There’s now also a loud whine giving a few revs, then when letting go of the throttle the rattle comes back. None of this happens when cold.

Again the rattle stops when the clutch is pressed. The whine just fades when the revs are dropped.

I’ve uploaded another video.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/en46bzbodcpwmhz/IMG_1196.MOV?dl=0

Any ideas?!
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Martin996RSR
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Posts: 329



PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first thought was gearbox input shaft bearings but having just had a listen to the video that sound more like non-bearing noise like the release arm is loose or something else is loose.

Are you certain it's coming from the gearbox end of the engine and not the rear?
 
  
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sackerley
Monza


Joined: 16 Mar 2016
Posts: 174



PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest I’m not sure where it’s coming from, it’s tricky to pick out an exact location.

The rattle feels gear box related. It’s the same rattle you get when the engine shuts down. The whine I’ve no idea! That’s just come on. I’m assuming both are related.
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Martin996RSR
Spa-Francorchamps


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you take the airbox out and remove the accessory drive belt then run the engine, you'll be able to then rule in or out anything that the belt drives on the rear of the engine. Obviously don't run it for more than a couple of minutes in this condition.
 
  
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sackerley
Monza


Joined: 16 Mar 2016
Posts: 174



PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I’ll give it a try and report back. Thanks for your help. Thumb
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sackerley
Monza


Joined: 16 Mar 2016
Posts: 174



PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn’t get chance to try the belt.

On a quick start up the car kicked out a lot of blue smoke. It’s never done that before. It’s settled until being rev’d and then more blue smoke.

The video is from the third start up. I’ve since tried again and let it run until warm. Giving some throttle it still kicks out a lot of blue smoke.

It’s going from bad to worse! Again, any ideas? Is it all related?!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sq9hul7umrn55vw/IMG_1199.TRIM.MOV?dl=0
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
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Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can i humbly suggest you get the car recovered to a garage for them to have a look ..

My thoughts ..

This started as a rattle , possibly clutch / release arm .. it seems to be getting worse so is some thing coming loose perhaps .

You now have a whine which to me sounds pretty bad .. possible its the clutch release bearing , it does sound bearing related to me .

You also now have smoke and from the colour its oil .

I could list them as 3 separate items .. aos , a bearing possibly idler or release bearing and maybe a problem with the release arm or indeed the bearing again breaking up .

I could also list them as x1 item inside the engine and its pretty bad .

Basically as per my first comment .. i would rather err on the side of caution here .. dont drive it and get a garage to look at it .

It may well be separate items and its not that bad .. or it may not .. i can only give advice on what i read and hear .. and i'm not liking those noises atm .
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sackerley
Monza


Joined: 16 Mar 2016
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear you and totally agree. It’s escalated very quickly from a rattle to the whine then smoke.

I’m going to get in touch with my Indy, possibly give Hartech a call too and get it looked at.

If it’s engine related what would you suspect?
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's very difficult to say atm so anything i do say is a guess at best .

The noise .. the whine that is feels .. well .. not good to me .. it doesn't feel like an idler bearing type noise ..

Im the back of my mind is something like a dry crankshaft bearing , camshaft bearing sort of noise ... something seizing basically .

As i said i'm just guessing , without having the car in front of me it's all i Can say.

Over all though .. i wouldn't like the car to be started again just to be on the safe side.

Hopefully i'm wrong and it is a couple of separate issues .. but i'd rather be wrong than something lets go on the way to the garage or you keep driving it .
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sackerley
Monza


Joined: 16 Mar 2016
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks DeMort. I really appreciate your input, and understood. I’ll arrange it to be taken to a garage ASAP.
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8202
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first two clips sound related but unsure what, it does sound like something not in time with the engine and is just loose. I has a similar sound when my input shaft went, could also be DMF or clutch bearing, worse still when my crankshaft end snapped that also sounded similar as the flywheel was touching the inner bellhousing. Does dipping the clutch make a difference to the noise or is there any vibration when driving?

The last smoke video could possibly be AOS with it being both exhausts bellowing oil smoke and is probably just a coincidence to the other problems?
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
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Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your rattle is your clutch thrust bearing (or release whatever its called). It's happening when the revs are too low so you won't see this when the aircon is on (as the ecu shunts the revs up 200rpmish) and you won't see it cold cos the engine is running richer and ticking over higher.

So - the problem you have is a lumpy tick-over

If I was to stick some dosh on the cause - bank 1 solenoid is goosed Wink

Bet it looks something like this::


Open Youtube Page

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sackerley
Monza


Joined: 16 Mar 2016
Posts: 174



PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Infrasilver - the rattle goes immediately when dipping the clutch, the whine dies down with the revs dipping. It does sound like something is loose

I don’t notice anything when driving. It seems sweet still. But I’ve not touched it since the smoke videos.

Alex - it does sound similar to that clip. But it does still rattle with the AC on, just not as pronounced.

I’ve fired an email over to Hartech to get their opinion too.
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