Joined: 10 May 2018 Posts: 373 Location: Hampshire
Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:10 pm Post subject: Replace PA1000 original alarm?
I am the new owner of a late 1995 993 C2 manual, so naturally there's a few things I'm thinking of changing. One of which is the original H&P alarm and immobiliser. It features a fob that unlocks the doors and disarms the immobiliser, allowing you to start the car with a separate conventional key within 30 seconds, I think. If you don't, it re-arms.
Two issues / questions:
1) I would like to have just one fob that I can plip to disarm the security system, but has the key mounted on it so I can drive away. Is this something that a brand new system can provide? Would it involve getting new keys cut?
2) I worry that a vintage system will let me down at some point, so am thinking of having it removed completely, and a new (21st century!) system installed. Has anyone done this on a 993? Any recommendations, either installer or system? Budget not an issue, within reason.
So what have you non-Illuminati 993 folk done to update your old H&P alarms? _________________ I'm Mike and I count beans for a living.
stichill99 Nürburgring
Joined: 03 Nov 2013 Posts: 409 Location: Scottish Borders
Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:08 pm Post subject: Toad
Last year I got the original H & P and another alarm with a dodgy immobiliser fob stripped out and a new Toad remote fob and alarm fitted. It is quite a neat fob and although not on the key it is not cumbersome and performs well.
I used an auto electrician and not an alarm company as I had been warned that they would just make new cuts in the loom and leave what was there. My electrician traced the old loom when removing it and fitted the new one without making more cuts. It cost £300 for his labour and I bought the toad alarm online but I know he did the job right.
decgraham Barcelona
Joined: 17 Sep 2008 Posts: 1363 Location: Spain
Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:58 am Post subject:
Hi,
My car only had the Porsche alarm fitted as it comes from Kuwait (LHD). When I exported it to the UK I had a Toad alarm fitted. As said above it comes with a neat fob and gave me remote locking, something I didn't have before. Not too expensive either. I had it fitted by NCS Systems back in 2010 (no affiliation) who also registered my car onto UK plates, they did a good job
ATB _________________ 1995 993 C2 Cab TipS in Guards Red
Billy Bumpsteer Monza
Joined: 12 Aug 2019 Posts: 157
Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:05 am Post subject:
Dont think there is an easy way of having a key in fob that youre after, like the USA spec switchblades.
Would agree that 25 year technology could do with a change though! Amazes me on how many people keep the H&P system
Tobesetc Albert Park
Joined: 02 Jun 2014 Posts: 1585 Location: West London, UK
Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:51 am Post subject:
Like others, had mine completely removed and in my case replaced with Cobra Alarm and Metatrak monitoring/tracking system. A very practical improvement. Would thoroughly recommend an update of alarms even if yours works. _________________ 993 C4, Coupe '94 manual
Previous - '03 986 Boxster S
Photos at TobesEtc.com (work in progress)
Counter Of Beans Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 10 May 2018 Posts: 373 Location: Hampshire
Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:38 am Post subject:
Thanks for all your replies folks.
Decgraham - what exactly is the basic Porsche alarm system? Is it that the horn sounds if a locked door is opened / window smashed / bonnet opened? Presumably the Porsche system (before H&P add their kit) isn't an immobiliser?
Tobesetc - sounds like you've got the "full monty" system. Did you remove the old H&P yourself or did your alarm fitter do this? Was it a huge hassle or an easy job?
Finally (sorry about all these questions), is it possible to remove all H&P stuff, have a Cat 2 immobiliser fitted, and retain the original Porsche factory alarm?
Thanks again. _________________ I'm Mike and I count beans for a living.
Tobesetc Albert Park
Joined: 02 Jun 2014 Posts: 1585 Location: West London, UK
Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:05 pm Post subject:
All the work was done by Sylwester @ Enigma Audio in West London. He does lots of high-end electrical work including security systems and has worked on many 993 and 964s. So it was easy for me...I just dropped the car there in the morning and picked it up in the evening!
Joking apart, he removed all the old components and replaced them, which is a fairly long job especially if you are fitting a tracker as it has to be in a very secure/hidden location!Suffice to say, you'd have to take the whole car apart to find it.
I'd count this as a very worthwhile "mod" in the actual sense of it being a "modernisation" as well as a "modification"! _________________ 993 C4, Coupe '94 manual
Previous - '03 986 Boxster S
Photos at TobesEtc.com (work in progress)
jonttt Long Beach
Joined: 20 Aug 2012 Posts: 6447 Location: Liverpool
Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:42 pm Post subject:
I like the H&P original installation. I think its part of the genuine heritage of the cars and I’m one for “improving” wherever possible. It does the trick in that the immobilisor works as does the alarm system. The only inconvenience is the auto immobilisor after 30 secs if you have not started the car, but you just press the button again.
These alarms are very reliable with the biggest problem being :
- the siren rechargeable battery going so needs a new siren. After market are easy to swap or you can source an original
- more commonly the red master fob is lost which is required to program a new fob to the unit. So when people get a car with only one fob and no master they end up replacing the system. You can get a new board and master fob from H&P (or at least you could a few years ago).
Part of the charm of the car is the original fob and system. If it was not up to the job I would change it but it is so I havn’t _________________ 1997 Porsche 911 993 C4S My Journal
2011 Porsche 987.2 Boxster Black Edition My Journal
Ex 2014 Porsche Boxster GTS My Journal
2017 BMW 740 Msport
2017 RR Evoque Autobiography
Counter Of Beans Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 10 May 2018 Posts: 373 Location: Hampshire
Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:05 pm Post subject:
I know what you mean Jon, but I think the charm and heritage you refer to is a bit overstated; it's not as if you can see the electronics after all. I'm going to get the H&P system removed and a new alarm and immobiliser fitted by a professional - it only costs a few hundred £ and I suspect it'll need doing at some point anyway. A bit like refurbishing the brake calipers, and a change of steering wheel, perhaps a front end respray??? Ah, the joys of Porsche ownership!
By the way, your 933 ownership thread is excellent and I've learned a lot from it, many thanks. _________________ I'm Mike and I count beans for a living.
AndyS Albert Park
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 1575 Location: The fast lane
Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:41 pm Post subject:
Just curious, but have any one of you guys attributed a draining battery on the H & P system - i.e. did it get better once replaced? _________________ Andy
Joined: 23 Nov 2015 Posts: 35 Location: Birmingham
Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:31 pm Post subject:
AndyS wrote:
Just curious, but have any one of you guys attributed a draining battery on the H & P system - i.e. did it get better once replaced?
I changed mine as it was becoming a bit temperamental on unlocking. Handy by-product was the car no longer drains its battery anymore. Went for a Cobra alarm FWIW, and it works really well and is a single fob.
jonttt Long Beach
Joined: 20 Aug 2012 Posts: 6447 Location: Liverpool
Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:29 pm Post subject:
Counter Of Beans wrote:
I know what you mean Jon, but I think the charm and heritage you refer to is a bit overstated; it's not as if you can see the electronics after all. I'm going to get the H&P system removed and a new alarm and immobiliser fitted by a professional - it only costs a few hundred £ and I suspect it'll need doing at some point anyway. A bit like refurbishing the brake calipers, and a change of steering wheel, perhaps a front end respray??? Ah, the joys of Porsche ownership!
By the way, your 933 ownership thread is excellent and I've learned a lot from it, many thanks.
_________________ 1997 Porsche 911 993 C4S My Journal
2011 Porsche 987.2 Boxster Black Edition My Journal
Ex 2014 Porsche Boxster GTS My Journal
2017 BMW 740 Msport
2017 RR Evoque Autobiography
decgraham Barcelona
Joined: 17 Sep 2008 Posts: 1363 Location: Spain
Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:20 am Post subject:
Counter Of Beans wrote:
Thanks for all your replies folks.
Decgraham - what exactly is the basic Porsche alarm system? Is it that the horn sounds if a locked door is opened / window smashed / bonnet opened? Presumably the Porsche system (before H&P add their kit) isn't an immobiliser?
Tobesetc - sounds like you've got the "full monty" system. Did you remove the old H&P yourself or did your alarm fitter do this? Was it a huge hassle or an easy job?
Finally (sorry about all these questions), is it possible to remove all H&P stuff, have a Cat 2 immobiliser fitted, and retain the original Porsche factory alarm?
Thanks again.
Hi Counter of Beans,
Yes the basic Porsche alarm sounds the horn only if the doors bonnet or boot are opened, no immobiliser. I believe it's linked to the switches that operate the interior light as well as the bonnet and boot light. With my Toad alarm, as my car is a Cab if someone was to smash a window or cut the hood the alarm would go off which is a separate siren. It also immobilises the car and once open will reset if the car is not started within 30 seconds. It is rated Thatchman Cat 1.
ATB _________________ 1995 993 C2 Cab TipS in Guards Red
ch3tman Imola
Joined: 08 Dec 2012 Posts: 766 Location: South Bucks
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Replace PA1000 original alarm?
Counter Of Beans wrote:
I am the new owner of a late 1995 993 C2 manual, so naturally there's a few things I'm thinking of changing. One of which is the original H&P alarm and immobiliser.
Interested in hearing what you end up going for - as coming on to 25 years old it's something we'll all have to do at some point. The idea of a Can-Bus Immobiliser (Autowatch Ghost-II seems popular) is very appealing but I"m led to believe the 993 ECU is not sophisticated enough to support this... _________________ Photos | instagram.com/ch3tman
Counter Of Beans Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 10 May 2018 Posts: 373 Location: Hampshire
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:29 pm Post subject:
Ch3tman; I Googled my local alarm installers and the name that kept coming up as recommended was Dragon Alarms in Portsmouth. So I rang the guy there, explained the situation, and asked about my options.
I would like the old H&P system removed and a Cat1 replacement, although I do not need, or want, a tracker. He recommended three systems:
Autowatch 457
Clifford 650
Toad Ai606
I did consider removing the H&P myself and fitting The Bergville FX T-lock but in the end the saving is minimal and I like the idea of a professional doing the job while I sip coffee!
I asked him which was the most reliable and his answer was that the key factor was the quality of the installation - the electronics are similar on most products, he reckons.
I decided on the Clifford 650 and it's booked in to be done, on my driveway, for £500 in two weeks time. Will update in due course. _________________ I'm Mike and I count beans for a living.
ch3tman Imola
Joined: 08 Dec 2012 Posts: 766 Location: South Bucks
Thanks very much for that shortlist. Toad Ai606 seems to pop up very often, even though its at least 10 years old!
With choosing the Clifford 650 I guess you conceded you won't be able to have item #1 from your opening post?
Counter Of Beans wrote:
I decided on the Clifford 650 and it's booked in to be done, on my driveway, for £500 in two weeks time. Will update in due course.
Intrigued to know how it all went, and of course your first impressions (of the alarm and immobiliser compared to what you had before) . _________________ Photos | instagram.com/ch3tman
Counter Of Beans Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 10 May 2018 Posts: 373 Location: Hampshire
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:54 pm Post subject:
Clifford alarm was installed on Wednesday, it took about three hours and cost me £499. I'm very pleased, the car looks the same visually but the new alarm has some good features - for example there's a proximity warning; it buzzes if you peer into the window up close. Plus it is all new and won't drain the battery or leave me stranded. I just didn't trust a 24 year old alarm system.
You're right, Ch3tman, in that I still have two "fobs"; an alarm one and a Porsche key. Inti Patel, who runs Dragon Alarms, doesn't think it's possible to have one fob that does ignition/doors/alarm/immobiliser with the systems that he sells. It's not a big problem since the Clifford fob is fairly compact.
I'd certainly recommend Dragon; they are based Portsmouth and cover Hants/Sussex/Berks/Dorset and Inti is a really nice guy who knows his stuff. _________________ I'm Mike and I count beans for a living.
ch3tman Imola
Joined: 08 Dec 2012 Posts: 766 Location: South Bucks
Counter Of Beans , thank you!
All sounds very positive the proximity warning feature especially, pretty flash .
Did you have the existing H&P setup completed ripped out? Also, how is the immobiliser activated/deactivated now as I assume you no longer have the blade?
Counter Of Beans wrote:
You're right, Ch3tman, in that I still have two "fobs"; an alarm one and a Porsche key. Inti Patel, who runs Dragon Alarms, doesn't think it's possible to have one fob that does ignition/doors/alarm/immobiliser with the systems that he sells. It's not a big problem since the Clifford fob is fairly compact.
Looking at the Clifford 650 kit, assume this is the fob you now have?
Are all of the buttons functional? Interested to see how you've got things set up! _________________ Photos | instagram.com/ch3tman
Counter Of Beans Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 10 May 2018 Posts: 373 Location: Hampshire
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:29 am Post subject:
Hello Ch3tman, yes I had the existing H&P 1000 removed - I think this makes it easier for the installer since they use the same routing / siren location for the new alarm's cabling. I didn't have a blade for the immobiliser, just the fob with a recessed button and a protruding button.
The fob that you picture is exactly what I now have. The top button arms/disarms the system and remotely locks the car. I don't think it's possible to have every possible function in an old car like the 993 - remote start, for instance, which is the "*" button. The button at the narrow end is the "G5" button and this enables things like smart windows, switching on accessories and enabling the valet function which you need when the car is being serviced or repaired.
The owner's guide runs to 30+ pages and I expect there's lots of functions that I won't ever use. Then again, this alarm isn't any more expensive than its rivals so I'm fine with that. _________________ I'm Mike and I count beans for a living.
ch3tman Imola
Joined: 08 Dec 2012 Posts: 766 Location: South Bucks
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the proximity warning feature especially, pretty flash 
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