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LaurasOtherHalf
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Joined: 08 Oct 2014
Posts: 20



PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:27 am    Post subject: Track Sl*g, Cat D, damage repaired or starship mileage GT3s Reply with quote

As much as a pristine original panel car appeals, something to wheel out on a Sunday to polish isn't exactly my style.

I've oft considered just how little a rough, workaday car could be bought for?

Something that isn't going to have the investors crying into their spreadsheets should it have a brush with the armco.

I very nearly bought the Manthey mk1 LHD car a number of years ago that had had a couple of "greatest hits" and still see it on track occasionally-having as much fun as everyone else with no thought as to how much filler is in a wing and a door.
 
  
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Disco
Estoril


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3974
Location: Hertfordshire

2010 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The question really revolves around how honestly such a car is sold doesn't it? Especially with damaged ones. You really have to know how bad the damage was and how much effort was put into making it good again afterwards. The nature of track insurance is such that there are a fair few cars out there that have been essentially written off yet are not actually recorded as such on the insurance databases. Very, very few got re-shelled and most are bought as salvage by people prepared to put in a variable amount of effort to turn a profit on them. A lot of stories have been through the forums over the years of adverts which - shall we say - understate some of the drama of the car's history. And that isn't necessarily down to the seller either as multiple owners can leave honest people unaware of the story of their car.

My old 996 is out there somewhere. I wrote it off at the 'ring, according to the MOT history someone bought the wreck and eventually returned it to the road, it was used a fair amount and now it has spent a couple of year SORN. It hasn't been recorded as a CAT and while I've never been aware of it being advertised I have no idea as to whether the person who has it is the one who bought the wreck, how much they know about it and how well the chassis was straightened (I bent it after Porsche stopped offering replacement 996 chassis so unless someone got a donor C4 or mechanically lifed out cup car then it didn't get a new shell). I'd like to hope that someone has totally track-car-ed it for their own use and is trailering it around rather than it rotting in a garage somewhere, but who knows...

Starship milage is a different prospect to damage though. With the 996 and 997 everything is rebuildable by your local specialist and there is a pragmatic position that even if it has been to the moon it can still be rebuilt to mechanically spot on if you have the right amount of funds standing by. And that is before you consider that the drive train actually does take mileage quite well. If the price is right, the mileage is just a number. It isn't the same story with the 991 though as the PDK gearbox isn't officially serviceable, the engines aren't generally dealt with by many independents as yet and there are a whole host of extra electronics that may or may not turn into expensive issues in the future.
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Black 997 GT3 3.8 CS - Acquired for the 2012 season and beyond
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LaurasOtherHalf
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Joined: 08 Oct 2014
Posts: 20



PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thoughts were mainly on a 996/997 to be honest rather than the newer cars.
 
  
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NXI20
Paul Ricard


Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 3384
Location: South Bucks

2004 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think your main problem would be to locate a rough but working & "all there" GT3. As Colin's car demonstrates, they may come up as write-offs up on Copart etc. occasionally but they are bought for strong money & put back on the road, a procedure which is never going to be cheap given that breakers are not exactly heaving with the parts so it's going to be new stuff going on a repaired car.
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Nick

2004 GT3 CS in Atlas Grey with too many mods to list!
1995 993 GT2 recreation in Polar Silver
2010 GT3 CS in Riviera Blue Smile
1978 Carrera SC in Red (for sale)
 
  
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LaurasOtherHalf
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Joined: 08 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've no intention of rebuilding the car myself (I lack the time and most importantly the skill!), mainly buying something already nocked back together.

There have been a few CATd cars on the market over the last year or so, I've no issue in one of those if it's at a fair price.
 
  
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NXI20
Paul Ricard


Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 3384
Location: South Bucks

2004 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LaurasOtherHalf wrote:

There have been a few CATd cars on the market over the last year or so, I've no issue in one of those if it's at a fair price.


That's kind of what I was driving at: even just covering the costs of repairing the car is going to put it within a few grand of a straight one. So the "fair price" often isn't going to be at any significant discount from a "no stories" car unless it's been bodged.

In your position, I'd be looking for a leggy (100K+ miles) car as that's what really seems to drive the price down. The downside is that you will be in for repacement costs of worn out parts faster than on a car with fewer miles but at least the bills will trickle in almost in direct proportion to your use.
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Nick

2004 GT3 CS in Atlas Grey with too many mods to list!
1995 993 GT2 recreation in Polar Silver
2010 GT3 CS in Riviera Blue Smile
1978 Carrera SC in Red (for sale)
 
  
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apollokre1d
Sepang


Joined: 06 Nov 2012
Posts: 2991
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a GT car, but perhaps this one could be of interest.
http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?p=1476856#1476856
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LaurasOtherHalf
Newbie


Joined: 08 Oct 2014
Posts: 20



PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-gt3-996/porsche-996-gt3-lhd--gen-1-lhd--manthey-k400--rebuilt-gearbox/9744261

Hmm Question

High mileage, LHD, Chairs instead of bucket's?

I think perhaps any two of the above wouldn't be a deal breaker but all three?
 
  
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Cunno
Indianapolis


Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Posts: 2365
Location: Nottinghamshire


PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LaurasOtherHalf wrote:
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-gt3-996/porsche-996-gt3-lhd--gen-1-lhd--manthey-k400--rebuilt-gearbox/9744261

Hmm Question

High mileage, LHD, Chairs instead of bucket's?

I think perhaps any two of the above wouldn't be a deal breaker but all three?


Don't know the car but it's had £30k spent on by JZM recently refreshing, already has a Manthey K400 conversion and 6 pot brakes. It's also 10k cheaper than any other PH car. If the title of your thread still stands what's not to like, much be better than buying one that's been punched in my book. At least worth a look.

Cars 19 years old that 5 k miles per annum condition is more important imo.
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Porsche is for driving not for washing.
Present Car: 2006 3.6 Porsche GT3 997(White)
Ex: 2006 3.4 Porsche Cayman S (Silver)
Ex: 2001 2.7 Porsche Boxster (Seal Grey)
 
  
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DynoMike
Albert Park


Joined: 25 May 2012
Posts: 1572
Location: The Cotswolds

2003 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I was looking for a GT3, that would be on my shopping list. Priced to sell, like Jon says, it has the six piston brakes and Alcons up front, along with the Manthey kit.

Perfect!
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Jay.
Montreal


Joined: 20 Oct 2015
Posts: 582
Location: Brize Norton


PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw a link on FB for another 996 GT3 for sub 50k, again with starship miles (I think even more than the above linked one). It was a LHD for sale in Germany, unfortunately I can't find the link to it
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Pip1968
Suzuka


Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1186
Location: Blighty


PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is the red one (996 GT3 Mk II) which is much talked about on here. It used to belong to NLW73.

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=97326

As it appears and disappears regularly it might be worth a sensible offer.

Pip
 
  
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Slippydiff
Nürburgring


Joined: 22 Nov 2007
Posts: 405



PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cunno wrote:
LaurasOtherHalf wrote:
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-gt3-996/porsche-996-gt3-lhd--gen-1-lhd--manthey-k400--rebuilt-gearbox/9744261

Hmm Question

High mileage, LHD, Chairs instead of bucket's?

I think perhaps any two of the above wouldn't be a deal breaker but all three?


Don't know the car but it's had £30k spent on by JZM recently refreshing, already has a Manthey K400 conversion and 6 pot brakes. It's also 10k cheaper than any other PH car. If the title of your thread still stands what's not to like, much be better than buying one that's been punched in my book. At least worth a look.

Cars 19 years old that 5 k miles per annum condition is more important imo.


I looked at and drove it 2-3 years ago. The owner was good bloke.
Has had some panels (door, possibly rear quarter or a front wing IIRC) and a lot of paint. Whilst that wasn’t the dealbreaker, the armchairs were, as was the fact it didn’t feel like it had £30k spent on it.
IIRC a chunk of that £30k was the K400 conversion. Either way, whoever had spent £30k on it, hadn’t spent it wisely, I’d suggest there may have been some up-selling on JZM’s part. Now there’s a first...
 
  
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Cheburator
Silverstone


Joined: 15 Aug 2014
Posts: 104



PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The infamous Polar Express was bought recently by a mate... He practically stole it. So yes, they are out there...


P. S. Now it is in Carara White Smile
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Kev.K
Silverstone


Joined: 31 Jan 2013
Posts: 128



PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LaurasOtherHalf wrote:
I've no intention of rebuilding the car myself (I lack the time and most importantly the skill!), mainly buying something already nocked back together.

There have been a few CATd cars on the market over the last year or so, I've no issue in one of those if it's at a fair price.


I’ve paid for 4 Dekra inspections on 4 cat D cars. They never make good reading.

The last engineer told me he had never seen a crash cat D/N repaired car he would drive.

Not so bad if you can find one that has been vandalised and repaired, but they are very rare generally. Let alone a gt3.
 
  
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Slippydiff
Nürburgring


Joined: 22 Nov 2007
Posts: 405



PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheburator wrote:
The infamous Polar Express was bought recently by a mate... He practically stole it. So yes, they are out there...


P. S. Now it is in Carara White Smile


That’d be Carrara white ... Smile
I enquired about it 3-4 years ago (IIRC), it’d been shunted 4 times in total (twice heavily, but repaired properly after each of those two shunts) and whilst it had some big number invoices for a lot of work with JZM, the mileage was high and the engine had never been opened up for any kind of refresh.
On that basis it’d need to be exceptionally cheap.
 
  
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Cheburator
Silverstone


Joined: 15 Aug 2014
Posts: 104



PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slippydiff wrote:
Cheburator wrote:
The infamous Polar Express was bought recently by a mate... He practically stole it. So yes, they are out there...


P. S. Now it is in Carara White Smile


That’d be Carrara white ... Smile
I enquired about it 3-4 years ago (IIRC), it’d been shunted 4 times in total (twice heavily, but repaired properly after each of those two shunts) and whilst it had some big number invoices for a lot of work with JZM, the mileage was high and the engine had never been opened up for any kind of refresh.
On that basis it’d need to be exceptionally cheap.


It still made 403bhp at recent dyno session, it has a set of freshly rebuild Manthey’s KW3, a brand new Manthey exhaust (not as noisy as mine), decent front Alcons, all the suspension is clonk and rattle free, the aircon works, it came with an extra set of Mk1 wheels on new Pilot Sport 4s, it looks good in white on its Mk2 wheels on decent Cup2s. What’s not to like for £35k?! He bought it as he did not want to spank his 993RS replica (Jackal’s old masterpiece) on track. It would never be a collectible. He already has a good E46 M3 track car, so the GT3 itch needed scratching. The White Express was a perfect match for him.
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Slippydiff
Nürburgring


Joined: 22 Nov 2007
Posts: 405



PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheburator wrote:
Slippydiff wrote:
Cheburator wrote:
The infamous Polar Express was bought recently by a mate... He practically stole it. So yes, they are out there...


P. S. Now it is in Carara White Smile


That’d be Carrara white ... Smile
I enquired about it 3-4 years ago (IIRC), it’d been shunted 4 times in total (twice heavily, but repaired properly after each of those two shunts) and whilst it had some big number invoices for a lot of work with JZM, the mileage was high and the engine had never been opened up for any kind of refresh.
On that basis it’d need to be exceptionally cheap.


It still made 403bhp at recent dyno session, it has a set of freshly rebuild Manthey’s KW3, a brand new Manthey exhaust (not as noisy as mine), decent front Alcons, all the suspension is clonk and rattle free, the aircon works, it came with an extra set of Mk1 wheels on new Pilot Sport 4s, it looks good in white on its Mk2 wheels on decent Cup2s. What’s not to like for £35k?! He bought it as he did not want to spank his 993RS replica (Jackal’s old masterpiece) on track. It would never be a collectible. He already has a good E46 M3 track car, so the GT3 itch needed scratching. The White Express was a perfect match for him.


Good for him. It wasn’t being advertised by Terry for £35K when I enquired about it 3-4 years ago. Go figure ...
 
  
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NLW73
Albert Park


Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 1542
Location: Yateley


PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pip1968 wrote:
There is the red one (996 GT3 Mk II) which is much talked about on here. It used to belong to NLW73.

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=97326

As it appears and disappears regularly it might be worth a sensible offer.

Pip


It’s back up for sale again talking to the guy who bought it from me.

It’s on 80k , seen a few track days, had some new pads and discs and other bits and you could probably get it for £40k in this market

If you want the owners name and number then pm me

I had it checked by autolign who passed it with flying colours and great repairs to the front end

Went from cat d to inspected. More peace of mind really and it will always be on the register

Hence the price
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Rallyeman
Indianapolis


Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 2420
Location: WEST WICKHAM KENT


PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NLW73 wrote:
Pip1968 wrote:
There is the red one (996 GT3 Mk II) which is much talked about on here. It used to belong to NLW73.

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=97326

As it appears and disappears regularly it might be worth a sensible offer.

Pip


It’s back up for sale again talking to the guy who bought it from me.

It’s on 80k , seen a few track days, had some new pads and discs and other bits and you could probably get it for £40k in this market

If you want the owners name and number then pm me

I had it checked by autolign who passed it with flying colours and great repairs to the front end

Went from cat d to inspected. More peace of mind really and it will always be on the register

Hence the price


Jeeeez he didn’t keep that long, I really thought M, would hang on to that GT3
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