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Counter Of Beans
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 10 May 2018
Posts: 298
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:31 pm    Post subject: Considering a 993 switch from a 997 - advice welcome Reply with quote

I currently have a Gen 2 997 and I love it; great car. However, I am keen to experience different Porsche flavours, so to speak, and I keep hearing about the magic of air cooled cars.
So, if I was to buy a 993 (probably a C2 manual), what pros and cons should I expect? I'm aware that ongoing maintenance costs will be a fact of life, but I've spent £10k in the last year on my 997, so that's not an issue.
I suppose what I would like to know is two things really:
1) why should I buy one? and
2) why shouldn't I buy one?

Budget is flexible but let's say up to £70k for a decent one. I keep looking at Sponge's old car - the Guards Red one at 911Virgin. I don't care about A/C but I do care about about resale value. Why hasn't it shifted?

Cheers, Mike.
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tyinsky
Hockenheim


Joined: 29 Jun 2012
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Location: London, UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I was in your position I'd go and drive the red one at 911V. Ask if you can borrow it for a couple of hours and see what you think. You'll know if you like it pretty quickly.

997 is faster, 993 has more personality.
 
  
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Albionmuz
Montreal


Joined: 28 Oct 2016
Posts: 538
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tyinsky wrote:
If I was in your position I'd go and drive the red one at 911V. Ask if you can borrow it for a couple of hours and see what you think. You'll know if you like it pretty quickly.

997 is faster, 993 has more personality.


Is that the one they’ve had for months and months? You are right though, best drive one to make a decision.

Looking on Pistonheads prices seem to be falling recently too.

Not convinced that 993s are that desirable as a daily in modern South of England traffic though. I find they take way more concentration than your average Eurobox in modern conditions. Absolutely love mine as a high days and holidays car, I think I’d get to hate it as a daily though.

I am aware that a few who post on here do use them as dailys but not sure if they are based in such a traffic congested area of the UK though.
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jhrfc
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1994 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I guess i can comment because I have both.
There is a big difference in how they drive, not suprisingly. esp as my 993 is 2wd and my 997 is 4wd.
The extra power and things like pasm make the 997 seem almost effortlessly fast and drivable, but still great fun.
The 993 as said, requires more concentration/is more engaging (whatever way you want to put it).
This means you also get a greater sense of connectedness between you the car and the road. I have not tracked either car, and have never had the nerve/foolishness to get either car to it's limits, but with the 993 you feel closer to the limit if you push it.
I do up to 10k a year in my 993 mainly on roadtrips/drives.
I would summarise by saying if you're going to do less than that 10k, mainly driving for the sake of it, then a 993, or you are doing more with a greater proportion of 'utility' driving then 997.
Pick wisely and i don't think either will lose you much money.
I'd leave it up to you to decide if picking wisley means avoiding a gen 1 997
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Counter Of Beans
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 10 May 2018
Posts: 298
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting comments gentlemen, thank you. No Porsche I ever own would be a daily, so a 993 might be suitable if only for the sense of occasion that's often mentioned.
You've whetted my appetite so I guess the next step is to go and drive one.
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Zingari
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
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1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: Considering a 993 switch from a 997 - advice welcome Reply with quote

Counter Of Beans wrote:
I keep looking at Sponge's old car - the Guards Red one at 911Virgin. I don't care about A/C but I do care about about resale value. Why hasn't it shifted?

Cheers, Mike.


The answer is there. Modern drivers these days want the added extra of AC given even a base Fiesta has it these days Rolling Eyes

Despite some saying the AC is shiote, has the output capacity of someone in an iron lung, when it's working correctly it works and does its job. I wouldn't even get past getting the Colini Stick inspection tool out unless AC was fitted. Would your driving profile rely on it?

On a trip with the air-cooled crew a few years back one chap had to drive most of the journey with the windows open. Given the speeds we were doing there was a risk of bell's palsy what

Take heed of Sponge's experience of going back from 997 to 993 again. Ownership was measured in hours Grin
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Cameltoe & Heel
Barcelona


Joined: 26 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go experience a 993 and see if your inner beard comes out...

I say experience as owning a 993 is much more than just a drive, you're almost buying into a lifestyle or at least a way at looking at things a certain way. They smell a certain way, they're built a certain way, they're like nothing else Porsche has produced since 98.

They're not the fastest, best handling, most comfortable, but the overall ownership experience is sublime......

Trev
 
  
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Albionmuz
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Joined: 28 Oct 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Counter Of Beans wrote:
Interesting comments gentlemen, thank you. No Porsche I ever own would be a daily, so a 993 might be suitable if only for the sense of occasion that's often mentioned.
You've whetted my appetite so I guess the next step is to go and drive one.


I look forward to hearing your comments on this. You can ignore Zingari’s comments imo, he is so so bitter about 993s these days and hasn’t got a good word to say about them. Also remember that he has bought into the Alfa experience now, most people go from Alfas to Porsches Floor

I love Afas btw and have two of them and I am actually jealous of his Alfa 4C though, I nearly went down that route rather than the 993 when I bought mine. I’d love both. I decided the 993 would hold it’s value better though Very Happy
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Fulla
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Albionmuz wrote:
tyinsky wrote:
If I was in your position I'd go and drive the red one at 911V. Ask if you can borrow it for a couple of hours and see what you think. You'll know if you like it pretty quickly.

997 is faster, 993 has more personality.


Is that the one they’ve had for months and months? You are right though, best drive one to make a decision.

Looking on Pistonheads prices seem to be falling recently too.

Not convinced that 993s are that desirable as a daily in modern South of England traffic though. I find they take way more concentration than your average Eurobox in modern conditions. Absolutely love mine as a high days and holidays car, I think I’d get to hate it as a daily though.

I am aware that a few who post on here do use them as dailys but not sure if they are based in such a traffic congested area of the UK though.


Live in West London and mine is a daily, has been for 9 to 10 years. There have been other cars I have had at the same time like a Range Rover but for me that was boring to drive so I would always take the 993 key's even if it meant I had to deal with speed humps and traffic. I accept the compromises as had lusted after 911 since a nipper and the 993 for me was a dream car.
Best advice which we are all saying is you need to drive one. I went from a 996 12-114 years back to my first 993 and do not regret it for a second.
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Robertb
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Were I looking for a high days and holidays air cooled car I would be over to 911virgin to have a look at the blue 3.2 Carrera. Restored, engine rebuilt, late G50 car. Looks stunning. Even more of a character than a 993, old school 911 charm without the megabucks needed for an early 911. I miss mine Sad
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spongebob squarepants
Zolder


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Considering a 993 switch from a 997 - advice welcome Reply with quote

Zingari wrote:
Counter Of Beans wrote:
I keep looking at Sponge's old car - the Guards Red one at 911Virgin. I don't care about A/C but I do care about about resale value. Why hasn't it shifted?

Cheers, Mike.


The answer is there. Modern drivers these days want the added extra of AC given even a base Fiesta has it these days Rolling Eyes

Despite some saying the AC is shiote, has the output capacity of someone in an iron lung, when it's working correctly it works and does its job. I wouldn't even get past getting the Colini Stick inspection tool out unless AC was fitted. Would your driving profile rely on it?

On a trip with the air-cooled crew a few years back one chap had to drive most of the journey with the windows open. Given the speeds we were doing there was a risk of bell's palsy what

Take heed of Sponge's experience of going back from 997 to 993 again. Ownership was measured in hours Grin


Simples dont do it! the red 993 is my ex car, 997 to 993 #dissapointed Old isnt all its cracked up to be, the same with 991 v 997....
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Tobesetc
Albert Park


Joined: 02 Jun 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the 993 you feel special. People smile, small boys unscrew their heads as you drive past. Blokes at petrol stations compliment the car, the look or the sound. People let you out of junctions. You get out smiling.
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nickjonesn4
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Joined: 10 Aug 2017
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tobesetc wrote:
In the 993 you feel special. People smile, small boys unscrew their heads as you drive past. Blokes at petrol stations compliment the car, the look or the sound. People let you out of junctions. You get out smiling.


This!
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Albionmuz
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tobesetc wrote:
In the 993 you feel special. People smile, small boys unscrew their heads as you drive past. Blokes at petrol stations compliment the car, the look or the sound. People let you out of junctions. You get out smiling.


Scary looking guys in Brixton stare at the car, then smile and shout “nice car mate”
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andyobro
Silverstone


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nickjonesn4 wrote:
Tobesetc wrote:
In the 993 you feel special. People smile, small boys unscrew their heads as you drive past. Blokes at petrol stations compliment the car, the look or the sound. People let you out of junctions. You get out smiling.


This!


Defo
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Luddite
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Counter of beans.... First off I do not currently own a Porsche and it has been many years since I last drove one thus anything I type may have no relevance whatsoever, but I do have time to contemplate much... (-:

First off I suspect one has to be very honest relative to one`s OWN priorities and I take it for granted that one who goes by the forum I.D. such as yours will have spent time enough considering many aspects of any potential purchase... (-:

I do tend to wonder about "investment" potential of any petrol driven vehicle given how legislative changes can seem to erupt out of a volcano that may have rumbled along for many years, the eruption altering the markets in the long term in ways perhaps never imagined..?

I suspect any 993 is getting on a bit with a past life of who knows what regardless of what paperwork might accompany it, or what mileage is recorded on the "clock" with no means of downloading over revs and the likes (?) It would seem chassis and other corrosion is not a stranger either, thus I suspect as with any older machine there are some risks involved in it`s purchase..? All my Porsches had a some history that might put any purchaser who would tremble at a missing spec sticker from the frunk running off screaming into the distance.... and I had used at least two of them on track days even bounced the rev limiter.... but then Porsche made unburstable engines back then it seems...? Body filler and repainted yup that done too.... I would have any one of them back today and they would be FUN... investment potential..hmm..???

As for that which some might regard as a primitive driving experience, everything is relative, and when compared to your 997, you might feel the 993 a tad basic whereas when I drove a 993 they were new to market, I felt it a big step forward in Porsche engineering... Of course there will ever be those who are slaves to their fundamentalist ideals and promote their beliefs at all costs and I suspect the 993 will have legions of devoted followers and perhaps more than most being the last of the air cooled cars..? As a Morgan owner I have read over many years of tales of daring do in Morgans, taking on tasks to which they were entirely unsuitable from trips to hack down a large Christmas tree and transport it home, or those like myself who have engaged a few continental holidays in very HOT weather, where any hard top with air-con would seem to be a minimal requirement in such temperatures and over such extended distances...

The difference between your 997 and a 993 in terms of driver involvement or as I prefer to categorise it sensory perception.... I have not driven a 997... BUT, I too at one stage felt the desire to visit to a more ...err...basic driving experience in search of something different after following a pre war LM styled open topped Bentley for a few miles.... which hopefully explains my Morgan ownership... (-: I can only imagine that you will feel things are a tad more basic, and as Albionmuz declared a 993 might be no fun for YOU in heavy traffic on a regular or even semi regular basis, and the wise words of jhrfc on how your driving style may require to alter a bit given the lack of technology in the decision process as to the way the car will conduct it`s self in any given set of circumstances.... Driving my old SC you had to wait for it to climb up on to the cam but once there the change in engine note and increase in power output was a very special part of 911 enjoyment once experienced unlikely to be forgotten, oft described by me as the wail in the tail....(-: However the 993 seemed to have loads of power low down in the rev range by comparison, thus something lost and something gained as would ever seem to be the way in terms of Porsche progress...??

Whatever you decide it will be great if you care to share the process.... Best wishes in whatever direction you take..
 
  
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Counter Of Beans
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 10 May 2018
Posts: 298
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once again, thank you for the contributions, it's all food for thought. Those of you suggesting that I go and drive one are, of course quite right.

I ought to stress that I'm fine with basic. I used to drive a Monaro with a 6.2 litre V8 engine - it was a heavy old beast and very old school, with little in the way of modern trimmings. It had the worst gearbox I've ever had the misfortune to use, paired with the best engine (Porsche included) I've ever experienced.

Anyway, "basic" has an appeal of its own. As does "small" - post 997 Porsches just seem too big to my eyes, sorry Sponge no offence intended. And I suspect that I couldn't ever use more performance than my 997 Gen 2 offers, not this side of a track at least.

Right, off to the classifieds! Oh, and if anyone wants an absolutely mint 997 Gen 2 then I've posted an advert on here.
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benbuhagiar
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 28 Dec 2014
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2008 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have seen Counter of Bean's 997 and can vouch that the car is mint and a lovely example.

I love the looks and size of a 993 but never been in one, so can't offer more than that.

If I was spending around £70k on a car, it wouldn't be a Porsche. I'd be in a Ferrari or Aston for that kind of mind. Far less common and much more special. V12 Vantage Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went from 996 GT3 to 993 and don’t regret it. it’s all about the feel and drive. As everyone has said the 993 is small, nimble and pure air cooled charismatic.
 
  
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Disco
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not? The most conspicuous elephant in the room is of course ergonomics - specifically the pedal box offset on the RHD 964 & 993. If you are a diminutive individual with elasticated knee joints then you will discount this immediately, but if you are over 5'10" or have any kind of leg or back issues or indeed oversized feet then you really do have to shop for a left hand drive one (the offset problem isn't there and the pedal box on the left side of the car is inches deeper. The air cooled cars were designed as left hook and RHD ones were an afterthought and it shows, whereas the 996 onwards were engineered much more with the right hand drive ~35% of the worlds population in mind). So the whole debate has to start with a very long test drive before you even start looking at specifics.

[Yeah - love air cooled, but I can only drive a right hook one for about 15 minutes before it gets unworkably uncomfortable. There is a good chance that you might be the same]
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