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Manabana
Newbie


Joined: 22 Jan 2013
Posts: 25
Location: South London/Wales/West Yorkshire


PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:55 pm    Post subject: 996 C4S Engine noise Reply with quote

Hi,

I'm a recent purchaser of a 996 Manual C4S coupe... 2002, 78k miles.

I've driven around 500 miles in the last 6 weeks, the bulk of it on a road trip.

Having had the car parked up in the garage for the past 3 weeks, I took it out in the fine Easter sunshine for a drive around the Surrey countryside.

A couple of things happened that may or may not be alarming.

On startup -- a blast of smoke from the left exhaust
After driving for 20 miles, the left exhaust sooted up compared to the right which remained clean
On the return journey (20 miles), I noticed a tapping sound from the engine bay.

I parked the car up when I got home, gave it a wash today, started it up again and shot a video of the sound coming from the engine bay, link to it below.

Let me know what you folks think the sound could be...

The car is due its minor service in May.


https://youtu.be/E1XGmRndqoA
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asterix_the_gaul
Barcelona


Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Posts: 1271
Location: Cheshire

1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really sorry but that's not good. Don't run the engine any more it's borked.
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simkin911
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Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 48
Location: Midlothian


PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based only on what I’ve read (I’m not a mechanic), query piston slap / tilt due to bore score (noting the LHS tail blackening)?

Hopefully someone else will be along shortly to add first hand experience.
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Manabana
Newbie


Joined: 22 Jan 2013
Posts: 25
Location: South London/Wales/West Yorkshire


PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

asterix_the_gaul - do you think thats really the case, the car drives and pulls great.
When I went for a test drive it is was fine, and the subsequent road trip (400 miles no issue). Could something like this just occur overnight after being parked up for 2-3 weeks.?
Only thing I have done is replaced the battery in that time.

I've only had the car 6 weeks, the previous owner had some work done on it at a specialist just the month just before I bought it, replacing the oil separator. I enquired about whether they had uncovered any issues during that work and he said it was all clear, huge book of documented work shows its been well maintained.
If it turns out to be a major issue do you think I have some reproach with the seller?
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kurlykris
Indianapolis


Joined: 30 Jun 2014
Posts: 2489
Location: Warwickshire


PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn`t sound good I`m afraid, is the noise on the passenger side, bank 1, or the drivers side, bank 2 ? ( sounds like bank 1 to me )
Oil pressure good and level OK ?
The car is on tickover in the video, does it go quieter if you up the revs to say 1500 rpm ?

Flat 6 engines can occasionally smoke on first start after standing due to a little oil gathering in a cylinder, so that in itself is not always an indication of a serious issue.
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 7120
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you buy via private sale or dealer?

The only way to be sure is to get the engine bores scoped by a reputable mechanic.

Being optimistic there is a chance if the AOS failed recently that there is some oil making its way out of the exhaust etc and a puff of smoke on start up is not a concern in itself with the flat six.
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Manabana
Newbie


Joined: 22 Jan 2013
Posts: 25
Location: South London/Wales/West Yorkshire


PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was a private sale. I’m not going to jump straight to the worst conclusion without getting it checked out.
The seller seemed a decent sort, home counties, well to do middlie classes type. I’d be very very very surprised if he had knowingly stitched me up with a dodgy engine. I did a lot of research and asked a lot of questions on this subject and he was very reassuring, especially when he said it had been to a reputable mechanic the month before.
I haven’t checked the oil since I bought the car. I’ll take a look at the oil level this week when I get a chance.

Any advice on best oil for these cars if its running low?
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ragpicker
Reims


Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Posts: 4015
Location: North East England


PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh dear.

I think you must have suspected the worst when you asked the question OP.

I've heard lots of piston slap before and I'd be surprised if this was anything but.

Check the video's out in this thread, particularly video 4. The whole series is worth watching as its incredibly informative, but 4 is on the diagnosis of bore scoring and what it sounds like.

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=133303&highlight=

Please keep us updated!

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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 7120
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oil-wise Id be using Millers CFS nanodrive 10w 50.

It’s always worth letting the oil level check run before you start the car.

Possibly it’s lifter noise after the few weeks layup, fingers crossed...

Get it booked in for a minor service inc oil change ASAP and get your specialist’s opinion before proceeding.
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GMG
Nürburgring


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 388
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...sounds like bore score rather than tappets to these ears; however I do hope the news is less painful to hear...
 
  
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simkin911
Newbie


Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 48
Location: Midlothian


PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please do let us know what happens.
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6987
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bore score doesn't happen overnight .


Top up the oil if needed with 5/40 mobil 1 for now .

Take the car to your local garage .. explain this to them and get them to listen to the noise ..

Then if needed get a bore scope check done .. depending on what they say basically .

I'm not going to comment either way as i think its best if a garage has a look and diagnoses what the actual fault is .


if your location .. South London is correct then the garage i work at is not a hell of a long way from there , info if required .
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SeeFourEsse
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Joined: 14 Dec 2018
Posts: 17
Location: Suffolk / Cambs


PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to hear you’re having such troubles, fingers crossed it’s something that can be rectified without too much trauma....

...but as an also relatively new member of the 996 C4S club and a similar mileage and vintage, please give us an update when you have one!
 
  
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jond58
Monza


Joined: 19 Jun 2017
Posts: 186



PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is, as others have said, a worrying noise! Fingers crossed massively for you!
 
  
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pooga
Silverstone


Joined: 03 Aug 2014
Posts: 105



PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds very similar to mine couple of years ago - also on C4S with 148K

Noise appeared over night - also stopped after a few days - original post with video

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=118575


Hope it's nothing serious!!
 
  
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Manabana
Newbie


Joined: 22 Jan 2013
Posts: 25
Location: South London/Wales/West Yorkshire


PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the replies, I'm really impressed with the response rate.

So, I got home from work checked the oil, it was really low, went down to my local Tesco petrol station and got Mobil 1 oil 1litre (only place and only oil available at short notice), and topped it up so the gauge read two bars from the top after having been run warm.

Didn't notice any smoke this time on start up. The tapping noise is there but less, can't hear it all when sat in the cabin, I didn't drive it just ran it for a bit whilst the engine warmed up (which I know you're not supposed to do), car is locked in the garage with my WRX blocking it in so a bit of a pain in the evening to start playing musical cars, especially with the neighbours.

The car was last serviced 2 years ago, (major) about 6,000 miles. The AOS was changed in February 2019, just 800 miles ago. I called up the indie that did it, spoke through the issue they said the car was all good when it left them.

Not sure what to make of it, maybe the intermittent driving, being parked up for 3 weeks, low on oil or a combination of the three?

I'm confident the car has been looked after, significant documentation and service history is comprehensive.

I've got a minor service planned and brake fluid change so may find out a bit more in the coming days.

BTW... I was absolutely fixated on getting a 997 then incidentally when I went to view one I saw a 996 C4S parked on the same street and was star struck. I'm so glad I went for the 996 C4S in the end, it is just achingly beautiful to look at from any angle and even if it costs me a fortune to fix it I'll do it rather than pass it on to someone else. This is a keeper !!
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NLW73
Barcelona


Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 1483
Location: Yateley


PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That could piston slap and you could have bore scoring ? Could be a sticky lifter or tappet?

Chuck some Wynn’s hydraulic lifter stuff in there to free up the lifter as they are probably original

Has it just started and you did not hear anything when you bought it?

That noise, the sooting of the left bank and then the smoke on start up are classic marks of bore scoring. The fact it’s used more oil than usual is. normally a sign that it’s on the way. I hope I am wrong though andit’s just a lifter

The noise will get louder if it’s bore scoring and piston slap

Can you get under the car and get a video of the under side ? If the noise is less loud there then it will be tappets.
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Dammit
Watkins Glen


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 2231



PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only way you are going to get a swift and comprehensive answer is to get a scope into the bores, then get someone who knows what they are looking at to examine the pictures.

I had this done on mine, even though it's an early 3.4 which are not meant* to score, and it gave me a clean bill of health. We eventually tracked the noise down to a blowing exhaust gasket (sometime later!)

*But still, if you are checking things it has to be on the list
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6987
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not convinced its all doom and gloom just yet .. hence get it checked and go from there .
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Manabana
Newbie


Joined: 22 Jan 2013
Posts: 25
Location: South London/Wales/West Yorkshire


PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had the engine checked, turns out there is bore scoring on Cylinder 6.

It looks like an engine rebuild is needed. I've been in touch with Hartech already, a full job including doing all the cylinders linings, new pistons and all other items that could go bang in the future is £10k + VAT.
It will take me around 2-3 years to save up for that, not so bad given it took me 7 years from thinking about getting a Porsche to actually buying it, another 2 summers will fly by.

I'm philosophical about it, I wasn't in a position in my life where I could drive this car more than once a month because of work/travel, I guess these things happen for a reason, life goes on, no-one died, I'll nurse it along and start putting a bit aside each month and report back in 2022...(hopefully when these cars are worth a lot more).

bye for now.
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