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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9986
Location: 911UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:22 am    Post subject: Pricing opinion on fresh Hartech engine rebuild 997 C2 Tip Reply with quote

2005 997 C2 Tip
81,000 just had 'literally' a fresh Hartech Engine rebuild and is covered under the Hartech Engine Rebuild Guarantee

Silver, Black Interior and a fairly standard spec
Wearing 18" Carrera 3 alloys

I am suggesting to the owner a private sale price of £20,000, can't see it being much higher

about right Question


if anyone is thinking about one, let me know
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Last edited by 911UK on Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Robert SausageTrousers
Monza


Joined: 02 Apr 2018
Posts: 170



PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems a bit cheap to me with a freshly built engine, if it was mine I wouldn't want to take any less than £25k for it.
 
  
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Rhodris-dad
Hockenheim


Joined: 28 Nov 2013
Posts: 637
Location: RHYL

2015 Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert SausageTrousers wrote:
Seems a bit cheap to me with a freshly built engine, if it was mine I wouldn't want to take any less than £25k for it.


+1
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ninenineseven
Trainee


Joined: 24 Apr 2018
Posts: 72



PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a grey one on eBay with a full hartech rebuild (although done a few years ago), same mileage, same year for £19,995.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-911-997-3-6-Tiptronic/372644145911?hash=item56c3526af7:g:UXIAAOSwSBNcpJkN
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
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Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 15766
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If its a full 6 pack £22-£24k would deffo have me viewing it if it was the model I wanted.
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brownspeed
Monza


Joined: 09 Jun 2016
Posts: 168
Location: Gods favourite city-Manchester


PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 more
ebay one seems a good price too.
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DucatiRob
Albert Park


Joined: 22 Jul 2015
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Location: Milton Keynes

2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree, if it is a full 6 bore rebuild then £22 - £25 would be my estimate, a lot might depend on what else was done at the time of the rebuild and overall condition! The engine bay on the ebay one looks a bit uncared for to me but hard to tell without viewing!
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GMG
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Joined: 07 Jan 2018
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Location: Devon


PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...£25k all day long provided it's clean...
 
  
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resigner
Suzuka


Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 1206



PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Base spec (???) non S Tip 05 with 81k miles, would say £17 to £18k without the rebuild, so £22k to £23k with the rebuild, depending on whats been done. I would want to see the bill from Hartech to check what's been done......

Don't get hung up on a rebuilt car, there are plenty (lets call it 95%) that won't have bore score.......
 
  
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GMG
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 346
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...you would have to be brave or stupid not to buy a rebuilt car for a few grand more than a non rebuilt one...it's not just bore score you know Dont know
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
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Joined: 06 Mar 2014
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Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't touch a Gen 1 3.8 (or 3.6) tip without some cast iron guarantee that the bores were clean, it had a LTT and running on the Millers stuff and after all that I'd still be scared of giving it beans at the least known expected time.

You only have to type in "Hartech" in autotrader and you get a page full of Gen 1 3.8 tiptronics........which tells a tale in itself
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Alex
Le Mans
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Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 15766
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...........even the ones listed as manuals are mostly autos nooo
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Poker2009
Österreich


Joined: 09 Sep 2009
Posts: 883
Location: London


PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tip must also be the dullest drive.. they should be priced 5k below a manual.
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MarkGolf
Hockenheim


Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 628
Location: S.London


PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have thought £20k is spot on.

Agree with the tiptronic comment, I test drove a tip 997 S and it completely crushed the 997 dream until I drove a manual a year later! That's another topic though.
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resigner
Suzuka


Joined: 19 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GMG wrote:
...you would have to be brave or stupid not to buy a rebuilt car for a few grand more than a non rebuilt one...it's not just bore score you know Dont know


This is misleading and complete *****. You really shouldn't be sharing "internet wisdom" on here, this isn't pistonheads. We actually know what we are talking about. If you want to limit yourself to a rebuilt car that's fine, but seriously, as we know bore score is 3% to 5% of cars, and IMS is the older version in 2005 cars and before (small generalisation there, yes of course I know it's an engine range number thing....) then newer IMS cars, 19 of 20 are perfectly fine. More importantly, we now know so much more about the problems and what causes them and the way to prevent them, warm it up properly, LTT (though possibly not) etc. mean far less are failing these days because we look after them. Sure some will still fail, but what magnificent cars they are.

Really had enough of the doom mongering ***** artists on here spraying misinformation around. Realise you meant to be sharing knowledge so people can make informed decisions. If you don't want any risk, don't go outside ever, after all, I'm sure my cousin had a friend who had a teacher who had a goldfish which got run over by a bus once, so you shouldn't risk going outside ever.
 
  
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Robert SausageTrousers
Monza


Joined: 02 Apr 2018
Posts: 170



PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whilst I agree with most of your sentiments ^ I would wager that the % of bore scored cars would be a bit higher if you looked at the stats of purely 3.8S Tips that have failed, as opposed to percentage of all variants of 997.1 overall.

I do agree that there's a lot of doom mongering on here which isn't particularly helpful though, there's certainly an issue with bore scoring on some of these cars but it doesn't warrant the few on here persistently putting people off buying 997.1's citing almost certain engine failure at any given moment.

People should always buy with their eyes open to the possibilities but I do feel that those possibilities are over exaggerated on here by these few members.
 
  
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2905


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

resigner wrote:
GMG wrote:
...you would have to be brave or stupid not to buy a rebuilt car for a few grand more than a non rebuilt one...it's not just bore score you know Dont know


This is misleading and complete *****. You really shouldn't be sharing "internet wisdom" on here, this isn't pistonheads. We actually know what we are talking about. If you want to limit yourself to a rebuilt car that's fine, but seriously, as we know bore score is 3% to 5% of cars, and IMS is the older version in 2005 cars and before (small generalisation there, yes of course I know it's an engine range number thing....) then newer IMS cars, 19 of 20 are perfectly fine. More importantly, we now know so much more about the problems and what causes them and the way to prevent them, warm it up properly, LTT (though possibly not) etc. mean far less are failing these days because we look after them. Sure some will still fail, but what magnificent cars they are.

Really had enough of the doom mongering ***** artists on here spraying misinformation around. Realise you meant to be sharing knowledge so people can make informed decisions. If you don't want any risk, don't go outside ever, after all, I'm sure my cousin had a friend who had a teacher who had a goldfish which got run over by a bus once, so you shouldn't risk going outside ever.



Experience trumps hard facts for most people.

GMG had IMS bearing failure, it doesn't matter that the real world failure rate is something like 3%, he experienced the failure and that is his "truth".

Populist politicians use this to their advantage all they time. Farage and co twisted and reinforced what people thought to be their experience to use them for his own advantage.

Any engine will wear out the bores, these are doing it prematurely in quite a few cases. Of course it might never happen to you - and if the cost difference is £5k vs a rebuild of £10k that might be a risk worth taking for some people to buy a car with otherwise clean bores. Many "rebuilds" are just one cylinder, in that case its no better really than buying an original car - unless other bits have been done.
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Poker2009
Österreich


Joined: 09 Sep 2009
Posts: 883
Location: London


PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wasz wrote:
Of course it might never happen to you - and if the cost difference is £5k vs a rebuild of £10k that might be a risk worth taking for some people to buy a car with otherwise clean bores. Many "rebuilds" are just one cylinder, in that case its no better really than buying an original car - unless other bits have been done.


Agree with the above, I wouldn't touch a car with an aftermarket IMS bearing, or a half-done rebuild, which most have had.

Glad I have owned mine for a long time, and know exactly what has been done to it, and how it has been looked after.
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63k miles, tiny IMS bearing, Millers NT+ 10W50, driven above 3000 RPM.. original engine.
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 15766
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't buy a performance car I couldn't do traffic light GPs in without risking scoring the bores. WTF is all that about Dont know nooo
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GMG
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...wasz...so you know more than Hartech do you? Who have repeatedly advised that crank bearings on these , for example, are worn enough to be of increasing concern after about 70-80k miles...didn't think so!

..of course they say that ignorance is bliss thus if you own a high mileage (>80k miles) car then by all means continue to naively and incorrectly assume that just because it's still running then it's in ' just run in ' internal condition ... it won't be...

Thus I repeat that anyone buying one of these that hasn't had an engine rebuild or doesn't have a spare £10k in the bank is taking a massive risk; if you believe this to be controversial this says more about your lack of knowledge than mine...
 
  
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