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Lenny39
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Joined: 26 Oct 2018
Posts: 23



PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:02 pm    Post subject: Track Mods Reply with quote

Hi all, I’m 3 months into 997.2 C4S and enjoying it. However having come from various track focused Exiges, I would still like to go on the odd track day. My 911 is standard. Are there any obvious mods for track? 95% of the time it will be on the road rather than track.
 
  
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FZP
Estoril


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 3507
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lenny
I'd recommend a geo set up from Centre Gravity. There is some great adjustability in the 997. I went down with a pig of a car handling wise, and I drove back home with a better GT car and a better sports car.
This required no additional parts. I'd also look at your tyre age, tread depth and brand. Wrong PSI can make the car feel broken and awful. Michelin MP4S tyres are generally considered the go to performance tyre if you don't have warranty to worry about.
That's a starting point that still gives you a nice street car. Past that, the options are endless
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Last edited by FZP on Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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DucatiRob
Kyalami


Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 1763
Location: Milton Keynes

2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FZP wrote:
Penny
I'd recommend a geo set up from Centre Gravity. There is some great adjustability in the 997. I went down with a pig of a car handling wise, and I drove back home with a better GT car and a better sports car.
This required no additional parts. I'd also look at your tyre age, tread depth and brand. Wrong PSI can make the car feel broken and awful. Michelin MP4S tyres are generally considered the go to performance tyre if you don't have warranty to worry about.
That's a starting point that still gives you a nice street car. Past that, the options are endless


Agree
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crash7
Hockenheim


Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 628



PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Start with the brakes you find the limits of these before anything else.

GT3 Brake cooling Ducts front and rear and high temp brake fluid, Castrol SRF or Motul RBF660, both are very cost effective upgrades.

Decent pads will help further, Pagid RS42 are good dual use pad. RS29 are over kill unless your spending circa 70% of your car usage time on track.

Tyres and suspension would follow, what you do depends on how deep you wish to venture down the rabbit hole!

The standard suspension has limited adjustability, but a geo will confirm that it’s all pointing in the right direction.

Lose weight where you can.

Dependent on how committed you are fitting a bucket seat make a significant difference versus sliding around on the standard leather arm chairs.
 
  
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Lenny39
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Joined: 26 Oct 2018
Posts: 23



PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That’s great feedback. Many thanks.

Car will need to lose weight because I’m certainly not!!
 
  
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The return of Marty Wild
Albert Park


Joined: 04 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some good points here, set yourself with a bit of an uphill struggle by going 4S after Exiges though in my mind.
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Norfolk & Idea
Albert Park


Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Posts: 1536
Location: South Yorkshire


PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crash7 wrote:
Start with the brakes you find the limits of these before anything else.

GT3 Brake cooling Ducts front and rear and high temp brake fluid, Castrol SRF or Motul RBF660, both are very cost effective upgrades.

Decent pads will help further, Pagid RS42 are good dual use pad. RS29 are over kill unless your spending circa 70% of your car usage time on track.

Tyres and suspension would follow, what you do depends on how deep you wish to venture down the rabbit hole!

The standard suspension has limited adjustability, but a geo will confirm that it’s all pointing in the right direction.

Lose weight where you can.

Dependent on how committed you are fitting a bucket seat make a significant difference versus sliding around on the standard leather arm chairs.


Totally agree about the brakes. I do track days on bikes but last year I did a track session at Donington in my 997.2 turbo. The brakes were cooked after 2 laps and I was coasting to my brake markers thereafter. It wasn't just me either, Easternjets had the same issue.

Not a huge outlay- appropriate pads, braided hoses and a decent fluid will go a long to sorting things I'd say thumbsup
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Lenny39
Newbie


Joined: 26 Oct 2018
Posts: 23



PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The return of Marty Wild wrote:
Some good points here, set yourself with a bit of an uphill struggle by going 4S after Exiges though in my mind.


Agree. Although I purchased the 911 as a road car with the odd track day. The Exiges were all purchased as track cars used on the odd road. I’m not trying to make it like an Exige, just make a few mods. Brakes/Geo seems a sensible place to start. Is there anywhere in the South, I’m on the South East coast that does Geo set-up?

Cheers all.
 
  
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MaxA
Albert Park


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 1538
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I take my C4S to the track occasionally, and I would only add - in addition to the comments on tyres, brakes and alignment - that I liked the stiffer RSS engine mounts for better control of the 200kg engine out back, that the TPC Racing DSC controller was a very effective upgrade to the PASM, and that a paddleshift steering wheel is vital (if you have a PDK). All this assumimg you have a healthy car with lots of fresh fluids.
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easternjets
Watkins Glen


Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 2032
Location: Darlington


PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best advice I can give you about tracking your C4S is 'don't'.

As Norfolk has said we both had the same issues with the same cars.

If you don't take my advice and let's face it most people don't! Then change your pads, change your fluid and put on braided hoses. If you can, get a second set of wheels, cheapies, and fit track tyres on such as Toyo's. Get your suspension checked and sorted and if you have the money spare uprate your shock's.

Most road cars are far too heavy to hustle around a track, you'll also get sick of guys in kit cars lapping you as you just can't compete with them at all no matter how much modding you do.
I took my 911 turbo, a supposed 'supercar' round Donington and flippin frightened myself with how bad it performed, trouble was it was too fast and with road brakes was just scary and as Norfolk says after 2 laps the brakes were 'toast'.
You can buy a S/H Boxster for 3 4 5 grand and have a lot more fun than with a valuable 911.
Another thing that became apparent at our Donington day was that lads in Corsa's and Civic's don't give a s##t about you in your Porsche so you'll be driving with your head spinning.
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FZP
Estoril


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 3507
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

easternjets wrote:
Another thing that became apparent at our Donington day was that lads in Corsa's and Civic's don't give a s##t about you in your Porsche so you'll be driving with your head spinning.

No truer word spoken. Thumb
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MaxA
Albert Park


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 1538
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we want to open up the debate a bit, then I'd add that perhaps it's best to do club days, instead of open pit lane stuff. No-one wants to be the target, and I really don't want some knob in an Astra trying to outbrake me down the inside and just t-boning the car because he locked up.

In other words, you want to be in matched groups, ie cars with roughly the same speed, and drivers with roughly the same ability in events with excellent discipline (such as only overtaking on the straights).

I have driven at open track events, but the big (expensive) coupes with similar or more power (Jaguar, Maserati. BMW etc.) couldn't keep up with the 911 going into or out of the corners (ie under braking or accelerating out of the corners), and the drivers tended to outdrive themselves in frustration.

But this is just my experience, I've not driven a Turbo on the track (I've only chased them down).
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Lenny39
Newbie


Joined: 26 Oct 2018
Posts: 23



PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My experience of ‘club days’ well Lotus ones has been very positive, open days...not so good. I was thinking of going down the ‘club day’ path.
 
  
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James M-S
Suzuka


Joined: 11 Apr 2017
Posts: 1011
Location: Derbyshire

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A bit of an old thread revival, but I'm doing a TIPEC club evening at Donington next month, my first time on track.

I have changed to uprated brake fluid, fitted GT3 brake cooling ducts, had a geo, and oil change (fluid changes were all due anyway).

I have about 5mm left on brake pads, so am wondering whether to slip in some £70 brembo pads at the front for the sake of better heat dissipation? Discs are fine.

First time on track, but I don't want to be curtailed by brake fade after a couple of laps. I also don't want to have to replace pads the next day! nooo

Am I likely to eat up standard pads with 5mm remaining in 3hours of track time (open pit lane)? I have no idea.....???

I realise that pagid RS4-2 as mentioned above are a more serious pad, but are they really twice as good as the brembos from CP4L? (cost is double)

Would there be a downside of fitting new pagid RS4-2 to used discs?

Will it be detrimental to have newer pads up front than at the rear?

Rolling Eyes
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easternjets
Watkins Glen


Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 2032
Location: Darlington


PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Change fluid to a Dot 5 fluid or Race fluid.

Yes the Pagid's are worth every penny and perform brilliantly on std discs. You can fit them to your used discs just remember to run them for a few weeks before to get them bedded in.

Most of your braking, probably 80% is on the front. Personally if I was doing a lot of track stuff I'd put the pagid's all round.

Even though you have 3 hrs of open pit lane I'd be surprised if you do more than 15 mins at a time, it's pretty knackering especially if it's hot.

Donington is a good circuit, just watch the first corner at the end of the pit straight, it's tighter than you think!
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keendean
Monza


Joined: 11 Aug 2011
Posts: 157
Location: Cambs


PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do the GT3 cooling ducts fit a turbo, or do they have cooling ducts already?
If so source them from OPC?

Where is the best place to source Pagid RS42 for a Turbo too?
I'm due a BF fluid change at one point, and have some Motul kicking about and will add new lines too. I hope to track it at Snet once I'm happy the car is ready.
 
  
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MaxA
Albert Park


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 1538
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought about the cooling ducts, but by the time I come in and jump out, my discs have been no hotter than about 250-260c, so they're not getting ridiculously hot. (I've seen BMWs coming in with front discs at 350-400c).

This might change if I run stickier rubber on hotter days I suppose. As long as you have freshish pads and not-knackered old skinny discs, the heat is manageable.

If however you have old discs, old pads and old fluid, your day is going to be cut short.
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