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craig15
Newbie


Joined: 10 Sep 2018
Posts: 15



PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:46 pm    Post subject: Brake Upgrade for 3.6 Reply with quote

Hi All

I'm just looking to get peoples opinion on brake upgrades that are available for Carrera 3.6's with 19" wheels. I've been looking at whats available for a while now and even ordered a brake kit last week only to be told that it was a 12 week lead time, so cancelled that.

I'd like to think I know what I should do but I was about to order something that probably a lot of people would advise against. Smile But thats' just modifying cars for you.....

I'd like to get bigger diameter discs and bigger pads to give more stopping power. I know Brembo kits are the solution but I'm not prepared to spend £4k or whatever it would be (I'm a tight Scotsman....!)

I've thought about Giro discs to get to 340mm (compared to my standard 318mm). They seem quite expensive (about £1200 for two discs) and you still end up with the same size pad. I know they will be great quality but still.

I don't think there is an OEM larger caliper that fits my hubs (unless somebody can tell me otherwise?) that allows 355mm or larger discs. Would love to be proven wrong on this one.

So I've been looking at DesignTek 6 or 8 pot calipers with 355mm or 380mm discs. I think the 6 pots can use Pagid RS29 pads but I'm not sure if Pagid pads fit the 8 pots? But these were on a 3 month lead time. So now I've been asking around trying to find distributors for Eurocup GT calipers (which I suspect are the same thing as DesignTek so I'm hoping they also accept Pagid pads).

Has anybody fitted either DesignTek or Eurocup calipers?


https://www.eurocupgt.com/acatalog/Eurocup_Porsche_Brake_Kits.html

I don't daily drive my car so I'm not worried about wearing brakes out or squeaky pads.
I know I should probably just fit new quality discs and Pagids but if I'm spending money I like to improve where possible. Slippery slope....

Thanks
Craig
 
  
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jonno_
Nürburgring


Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 424
Location: Oxfordshire

2005 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Craig
Are you modding for a particular purpose, performance, looks, other?

Do the 3.8 brakes not fit? - would have expected some used deals to be available on them, plus plenty of disks and pads available.
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997.1 Seal Grey c2s manual, ltt, mobridge, zunsports, Carrera S IIs (summer)
 
  
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James M-S
Suzuka


Joined: 11 Apr 2017
Posts: 1043
Location: Derbyshire

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where are you based Craig? Still in Scotland?

Have a look at mine, not sure if they’re brakes from carrera S fitted to my carrera, or just painted callipers. I’ll measure disc diameter later.

Carrera 2 on 19’s.


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TonyC911
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 06 Jun 2016
Posts: 368



PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I would just upgrade to the Brembo set-up on the Carrera S. They perform well, parts are plentiful and they look good too!

Something like this - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/911-996-997-Porsche-Calipers-Front-And-Rear-Monoblock-brembo-VW-VAG-AUDI/153326954271?
 
  
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craig15
Newbie


Joined: 10 Sep 2018
Posts: 15



PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, thanks for the replies.

Jonno / James / Tony

I'm pretty sure 3.8 brakes don't fit. When I first started looking I thought I was onto a winner because I have shiny red calipers and I thought the car had been spec'd with 3.8 brakes, but I've actually only got 'little reds', lol. The 3.6 has calipers with 130mm bolt pitch (same as the 996 I think). The 3.8 has a bolt pitch of 142mm (I think). That'll be why brake kits are advertised as '996 & 997 Carrera 3.4 & 3.6'. So that rules out a good few options.

I have the same calipers as in Tony's Ebay link (996 part number)

This thread is useful.

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/997/374203-gt3-brake-conversions-facts-997-1-s-non-s.html

I love the feel of my brakes. They give great modulation hammering into a tight corner. That's what I don't want to ruin. None of the DesignTek or Eurocup suppliers can tell me what the piston diameters are to compare it with my current calipers.
But during a 4am, summer month, 200 mile blast across Scotland on Cup 2 tires my current brakes definitely 'wilt' a little. They feel like they are hauling down a 1400Kg car...... I want it to feel like they are hauling down a 1000Kg car, Smile

When you look at the difference in brake pad area between my calipers (first link below) and the pads that fit the DesignTek 6-pots (second link below) its pretty substantial.

http://www.pagidracing.com/en/product-search/race-products/racing-brake-pads/shape-detail/s/shape-2405.html


http://www.pagidracing.com/en/product-search/race-products/racing-brake-pads/shape-detail/s/shape-8018.html

Thanks
Craig
 
  
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vlad
Imola


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 860
Location: Berkshire


PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're not tracking it OEM should be ok have you looked at upgrading the fluid and pads as a first step. Before you spend the big bucks 😀

This was the consensus on here a few years back when I was looking to upgrade the brakes on my C4S.
 
  
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NLW73
Albert Park


Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 1512
Location: Yateley


PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Put the 997 Gt3 cooling ducts on to help with cooling . They are dirt cheap and will help. Will get part numbers too you and at £20 for the fronts it’s worth doing

I would do pads and steel lines as well as better fluid to see how you get on

Could you space out the calliper to put the bigger S discs on from the 3.8?
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craig15
Newbie


Joined: 10 Sep 2018
Posts: 15



PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Yip cooling ducts sound good, didn't realise they could be so cheap either, I thought they were £70.

Yes, I totally agree with going for better pads. I'm thinking Pagid RS29's, for what ever I do, about £250-278 I think.

Hoses, might as well do them too, £79 for Goodridge?

NLW73 - Yes I like the idea of spacing out my existing calipers. That's what led me to look at the Giro disc kits. I think they come with a spacer bracket to get to 340mm discs. But £1200 for 2 discs and a couple of brackets.... I'm sure I could draw up my own brackets (I'm a design engineer by trade) but it could end up being a bodge-job challenge, hahaha. I'd rather buy something like that from a reputable company. The other thing I'm not sure about is that the 3.8 discs are 34mm thick and the 3.6 discs are 28mm thick. Would that mean I'd have to sand off 3mm per pad from my expensive new Pagid pads?? Not sure. I've not been able to find a supplier for these spacer brackets unless anybody knows otherwise?

I know all you're comments are the logical thing to do but I also know how my brain works, lol. I'd buy standard size Brembo discs and Pagid pads, everything would work great with an improvement over what I've got just now but a couple of months later I'd be wondering if the 6-pots and 355mm discs would be even better but I wouldn't want to throw £434 worth of Brembo's and Pagids in the bin to find out, then I'd be annoyed with myself. Rolling Eyes Smile
 
  
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vlad
Imola


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 860
Location: Berkshire


PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

please check the price of the cooling ducts at OPC first - there are quite cheap IIRC , less than what some traders on ebay ask.
 
  
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NLW73
Albert Park


Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 1512
Location: Yateley


PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vlad is spot on. don't buy them on ebay as traders are putting mark up.

go straight to OPC with these part numbers and prepare to be amazed at the low price! they were £20 for the fronts AND rears when I bought them last year. its a motorsport part so they won't be on the shelf but easy to order in.

bolt onto the wishbones the same as you oem ones. if they are still on there as sometimes they come off and that does not help braking and cooling too.

you might as well chuck the rear ones on as well as for £20 you can't go wrong fella!!

997 GT3 front and rear brake ducts part numbers and price:

997 GT3 Front Ducts - £2.18 each plus vat

997.341.483.92
997.341.484.92.

997 Rears - £6.30 each plus vat

997.331.487.92
997.331.488.92

yes pagid are a good option and RS29s are superb. together with braided hoses it should make a big change.
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James M-S
Suzuka


Joined: 11 Apr 2017
Posts: 1043
Location: Derbyshire

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great tip on GT3 cooling ducts, Thanks NLW! Cheers
_________________
Manual 997.2 c2 :Basalt + gtechniq : H&S + Gundo
 
  
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James M-S
Suzuka


Joined: 11 Apr 2017
Posts: 1043
Location: Derbyshire

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone noticed a difference after fitting braided hoses? OE hoses are braided internally, so surely it is just cosmetic?

I would have thought bang for buck; money is best spent on:

GT3 cooling ducts,
updated brake fluid,
braided hoses.

In that order Question

I’m due a brake fluid change in coming months, and planning my first track time at a Donington evening session.

I have standard c2 ‘small reds’ same is OP.
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Manual 997.2 c2 :Basalt + gtechniq : H&S + Gundo
 
  
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MisterCorn
Dijon


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 7209
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless you have a problem with your brake lines you won't notice the change to braided lines.

MC
 
  
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craig15
Newbie


Joined: 10 Sep 2018
Posts: 15



PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great information on the cooling ducts!

Quick update from me. Against all you're logical and sound advice I decided to order a set of the Eurocup GT brakes. Before I ordered them I asked what the caliper piston diameters are but they couldn't tell me, only that the kit is plug-and-play for my car. After I had ordered them and then heard nothing for a week I was starting to doubt my decision and wanted to get the technical specs of what I was buying. The supplier then managed to tell me the piston diameters and surprise surprise when you do the calcs they require 30% more fluid than my current 4-pot calipers. So I cancelled them.

I'm now talking to HiSpec Brakes who sound much more on the ball. Lots of options to look at. I'll let you know how I get on.

http://www.hispeccalipers.co.uk/monster6x-range.html



http://www.hispecmotorsport.co.uk/360monster.html

Thanks
Craig
 
  
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James M-S
Suzuka


Joined: 11 Apr 2017
Posts: 1043
Location: Derbyshire

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can someone confirm the brake fluid capacity of a 997.2?

Do I need 1L or 1.5L or 2L?

Just about to order some Motul DOT5.1 from Opie along with Millers oil for my next service.

Cheers
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Manual 997.2 c2 :Basalt + gtechniq : H&S + Gundo
 
  
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Dagerous
Newbie


Joined: 23 May 2014
Posts: 30
Location: Hamble


PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig15 did you ever go any further with bigger brakes on your 997? HiSpec or otherwise? I’m also looking into options for my 996.1 and would appreciate hearing your thoughts if you went ahead.

Currently my favoured route is looking like 6 pot Cayenne or Panamera callipers mounted via custom brackets / spacers (But it’s the custom bit that has me foxed at the moment. Quite a few people seem to have done it on a “One off” basis!)

Any thoughts and advice gladly received!
 
  
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NLW73
Albert Park


Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 1512
Location: Yateley


PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys have a look on the 996 forum as the 996.2 and the 3.6 997 gen 1 share a lot of the same things from brakes to engine to suspension I think

Certainly brakes they are similar

One of the guys on there has done the 6 pot caliper conversion from the cayenne turbo with the grooved discs too from that car. It’s a fairly cheap conversion I think with some custom brackets

If they can cope with a cayenne turbo then on a 911 epic!!

For a road car I would prefer to stick to Porsche braking systems as they have always been some of the best in the world. Shame the c2s brakes won’t fit as that was one of the worlds best stopping cars at one point !!

Did you get the gt3 brake ducts in the end? I would do brake fluids , pads and braided lines

No Porsche brake lines are not braided on road cars and not even on GT or RS cars from memory. I changed them on my old gt3 and it helped with pedal feel and confidence and did not expand on track.
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Dagerous
Newbie


Joined: 23 May 2014
Posts: 30
Location: Hamble


PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe both Poppopbangbang and MrCorn put together big brake conversions based on the Porsche Cayenne calipers and Cayenne / 997 Turbo discs. My understanding (Forgive me if I’m wrong) was that these needed custom brackets AND some fairly complex machining to the calipers themselves (To go from lug to radial mount)?

I believe the caliper machining was quite a specialised task.

I was wondering though... the later model Cayennes and Panameras were fitted with radial mounted 6 piston “Wingmirror” calipers. Please excuse my ignorance but would using a set of these not mean that they could be bolted to the 996 hubs using a relatively simple adapter / spacer plate?

Ie (Round numbers) 16mm thick plate fixed to the 996 hubs then the radial mount Cayenne / Panamera calipers bolt onto the plates, with the mounting holes set so as to align the calipers with a set of 350 / 355mm Porsche Or Brembo discs?

I may be missing something obvious here (And please chime in if I am!) but this could possibly be a route for fitting “Current generation” 6 piston calipers designed (By Porsche) to slow down their 2 tonne cars.... onto our little 1300kg go carts? I’m thinking the larger (27mm?) master cylinder would likely be needed and maybe relocate the front 318mm discs and calipers to the rear...

Again. I may be being overly simplistic here and if Poppopbangbang or MrCorn would like to offer their opinions I’d love to hear them!

I’m starting to think this could be a fun but manageable little “Project”...
 
  
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splattric
Newbie


Joined: 04 Jul 2017
Posts: 21
Location: buckinghamshire


PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im not technical enough to know if this is of use or the same can be done.
But last month my independent did a modification so i can run the bigger 380mm cup front brake discs
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997 turbo
 
  
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MisterCorn
Dijon


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 7209
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the calipers are the same as on the 996 then in terms of calipers with adapters, you are struggling for the 6 pistons used on the 996 turbo and I think the 997.1 as the bolt spacing is similar to what you have, just a bit wider.

These are the two setups I have produced. One is a modified Cayenne turbo with bracket to take 997.1 350mm GT3 disks. The other is a 997.2 GT2 caliper with bracket for 380mm disks. Note the much wider bolt spacing on the later GT2 calipers. The rears can use a simple spacer.







I would run these with a 27mm master cylinder.

MC
 
  
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