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mikeknivett
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Joined: 05 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:34 am    Post subject: 997.2 GTS vs 997 Turbo Manual or GT3 Reply with quote

Hi.

I’ve just fulfilled a long term dream and bought a very low mileage 1994 993 from Hexagon.

Link below

https://hexagonclassics.com/cars/porsche-911-993-coupe-1994/

I’m also considering buying a 997 to pair with the 993. The plan is to put max 1.5 to 2k Miles pa for next 15 years as these are just something to put some money that’s more exciting than an ISA or leave in the bank.

I’ve owned 996 GT3’s and GT2’s before and especially on track massively preferred the feel of the GT3 as so much more engaging than the Turbo GT2.

I’m looking at either the manual GTS or have seen this manual Turbo both with low mileage and wondered what the general consensus is about both from a long term desirability perspective ?

https://hexagonclassics.com/cars/porsche-911-997-carrera-gts-coupe-manual-2011-3/

https://www.approvedusedvehicles.co.uk/used-porsche-911-hinckley-leicestershire-1779608

I was shocked by just how much 993 Turbo’s are now compared to NA cars so was interested whether the 997 Turbo values may do this over the long term.

Or am I better to stick to a 997 GT3????

https://www.approvedusedvehicles.co.uk/used-porsche-911-mk-997-hinckley-leicestershire-1697942

If so is there any difference in desirability in Gen 1 vs Gen 2 GT3’s as they both have the Mezger engine which I think please correct me if wrong hasn’t suffered same issues as Gen 1 non GT 997’s

Thanks for any advice.
 
  
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jonttt
Zolder


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 5924
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me it would have to be the GT3 every day of the week with your criteria ie

- I much prefer NA over Turbo in any case and history will only look back on none turbo cars with more fondness IMHO ie as the extra power FI brings to the party at the expense of driving sensation is both lost in the future (sense of speed / power is ever increasing) and widened (the joy of a great NA engine) Wink

- The GT would win over the GTS due to the type of use. If you where looking to do more road miles / when these where dailies the GTS made more sense to me but the compromises of the GT car on road are more than made up for by the occasional sense of occasion you are looking for.

Ps besides “bricks and mortar” I fully agree with your spare investment strategy, cars are often less hassle and always more fun so its easy for me to justify them as part of a mixed investment portfolio Thumb ......and in that sense Porsche is the best brand of the recognised “investment” types ie relatively easy / cheap to have and very reliable both in terms of use and long term total cost of ownership Bandit
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robbiej
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Joined: 03 Oct 2016
Posts: 313



PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Gen2 Turbo PDK so it's not on your list but the whoosh when overtaking and going is addictive. They will likely be worth something in the future later tech in smaller 997 car. This applies to manuals as well but darker colours are more popular?

AUV have very clean low mileage cars, I was annoyed as they didn't want to let me test drive a car and it was missing recalls and services. As it was low mileage car they just didn't think that was important. A bit more garage queen than drivers cars is their specialist. I was a serious buyer I purchased one...
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 15751
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The mileage on all three cars you listed are already above what will make them 'collectable' in the future but their asking prices reflect that. If you're planning to put a further 20k-30k on any of them they'll all be just ordinary examples of their ilk in 10 years time.

That said, you'll have great fun using any one of them and probably won't lose much money. How much fun depends on what type of driving you want to do as they are totally different cars.

The GTS is generally considered the sweet-spot of the 997 generation as an all round drivers car but it is still a Carrera. The Turbo and the GT3 are more 'special occasion' cars.

A drive in all three is the only way for you to find out which suits you.

Happy Hunting. Thumb
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ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
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ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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ragpicker
Reims


Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Posts: 4015
Location: North East England


PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Jon says, GT3 IMO for your use.

Far too much white going on there though..
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G2
Barcelona


Joined: 26 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love the 993 in yellow Thumb did you see a turbo s in the same whilst mooching around Hexagon?
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T8
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Joined: 29 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:13 am    Post subject: Re: 997.2 GTS vs 997 Turbo Manual or GT3 Reply with quote

mikeknivett wrote:


I was shocked by just how much 993 Turbo’s are now compared to NA cars so was interested whether the 997 Turbo values may do this over the long term.

Or am I better to stick to a 997 GT3????



Further to my earlier post I should have added that the 993 Turbo is valued where it is now largely due to rarity. The 997 Turbo was made in far higher numbers. From a rarity - and thus future value - point of view the GT3 will probably fare better.

If you're still planning on using the car for track duties the GT3 is by far the best choice.

Looks like the GT3 is starting to be the one to go for. Very Happy
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mikeknivett
Newbie


Joined: 05 Oct 2008
Posts: 30



PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TBH I’m really not fussed about track use as have just sold a full blown race M3 that I’ve been track daying for 3 years and still own a just road legal completely stripped e36 M3 Evo for trackdays.

It’s something as good opposite to the 993 and something that will be desirable with sub 45k miles in 15 years.

Really good comments about rarity of 993 Turbo vs 997 Turbo.

My gut is leaning towards 997 GTS or GT3.

If GT3 is it important to have full buckets or CS spec or are Comfort specs just as sought after? I’ve always personally loved CS spec.
 
  
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mikeknivett
Newbie


Joined: 05 Oct 2008
Posts: 30



PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G2 no didn’t see a Turbo S in speed yellow when was there. Amazing showroom and service so far has been exceptional.

Delighted that independent inspection rated the car as excellent as well.
 
  
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T8
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Joined: 29 Jun 2010
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Location: Kent


PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hang on a minute.

I've just realised that the Gen2 Turbo you linked is a manual. Embarassed

They ARE rare.
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mikeknivett
Newbie


Joined: 05 Oct 2008
Posts: 30



PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I’m only looking at manuals as personally can’t stand Tiptronic etc. For ultimate lap times paddle shift is great but not on the road for me.

Does anyone know manual vs auto 997 turbo RHD build numbers ?
 
  
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T8
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Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 15751
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikeknivett wrote:


Does anyone know manual vs auto 997 turbo RHD build numbers ?



Nobody will have that information but my guess is that it's 5/95 % for the Gen2 Turbo in the UK.

See the comments in this link to an old JZM advert

--> https://www.jzmporsche.com/used-vehicle-details/Porsche-Gen-II-997-Turbo-U1136/
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ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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T8
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Posts: 15751
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Total Production Numbers were c3,800 for the 997.2 Turbo and c2,000 for the Turbo 'S'.
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robbiej
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 03 Oct 2016
Posts: 313



PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big difference Tiptronic to PDK

lot less gen2 Turbos, as well as they, are made after the financial crash
 
  
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Magic919
Suzuka


Joined: 05 Jun 2013
Posts: 1191
Location: Berkshire


PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

997 Gen 2 GT3 is a great looking car. CS with buckets, some kind of PTS colour and PCCB would be my suggestion if funds allow. The cream of the crop would be a 4.0, but at a far greater cost.
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Cheib
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 20 Feb 2016
Posts: 305



PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’d be going for a 997.2 GT3 Clubsport if I was you but you’ll be looking at a minimum £100k for one. GT cars are very mileage sesnsitive so and as a mad as it sounds if you want one as an investment it needs to have less than 15k miles on it at this stage. As has been said above PTS would definitely help but Uber rare...happens that there is one listed on PH but it’s a mad £127k. I reckon it’s probably worth £115. Wouldn’t be surprised if someone bought it though, first I’ve seen advertised in a very long time.

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-gt3-997/porsche-911-997-gen-ii-gt3-2011/9457442

The 997 Turbo that is sort after is the 997.2 Turbo S that is PDK only. The rare manual is a Gen “1.5” which is a Gen 1 with a Gen 2 interior, as that one you have linked to is. I wouldn’t buy one under your criteria though. Naturally aspirated and manual are the two boxes you need to tick.

I own a manual 997.2 GTS it’s a great road car but needs certain spec. Alcantara Interior, CL Whels, Leather Dash (Hexagon car doesn’t have it) and a few other bits. They’re fantastic cars. Hydraulic steering, Lovely gearbox (especially with the short shift) and the Powerkit engine revs out really nicely. Not as mileage sensitive as a GT car. I run mine alongside a 991.2 GT3. If you want to have a go in one I live in Bucks.
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T8
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Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 15751
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheib wrote:


The 997 Turbo that is sort after is the 997.2 Turbo S that is PDK only.

The rare manual is a Gen “1.5” which is a Gen 1 with a Gen 2 interior, as that one you have linked to is. I wouldn’t buy one under your criteria though. Naturally aspirated and manual are the two boxes you need to tick.



The 997.2 Turbo is available in manual form but is very rare. I don't know about the 'S' - that might be PDK only.

Regarding the advert that was linked. The advert states that it is a 3.8 500 bhp car. That would make it a Gen2 not a Gen1.5 which had the Mezger 3.6 473 bhp engine.
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maph
Monza


Joined: 01 Feb 2017
Posts: 174



PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:


Regarding the advert that was linked. The advert states that it is a 3.8 500 bhp car. That would make it a Gen2 not a Gen1.5 which had the Mezger 3.6 473 bhp engine.


Yeah, that is a Gen 2, and as has been said very rare in manual. That one has an aftermarket body kit though so would need to be reverted back to standard if viewed from a purely investment perspective.
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m119cars
Monza


Joined: 28 Jan 2015
Posts: 185



PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Cheib"]I’d be going for a 997.2 GT3 Clubsport if I was you but you’ll be looking at a minimum £100k for one. GT cars are very mileage sesnsitive so and as a mad as it sounds if you want one as an investment it needs to have less than 15k miles on it at this stage. As has been said above PTS would definitely help but Uber rare...happens that there is one listed on PH but it’s a mad £127k. I reckon it’s probably worth £115. Wouldn’t be surprised if someone bought it though, first I’ve seen advertised in a very long time.

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-gt3-997/porsche-911-997-gen-ii-gt3-2011/9457442

Im pretty certain that car was advertised through OPC Nottingham late last year for £115k which I thought was a stonking price considering spec mileage and colour ( hence why ive still got the walk around video on my phone).
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FZP
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Joined: 18 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

127k is a chancer price. Run of the mill GT3 are low to mid 90s in reality, despite advertised pricing showing otherwise in the market, and tgat figure is slowly alipping. Those seats don't look correct from my reckoning, but can be corrected on that. No PCCB'S missing as well at that price point.
£115k is about right for the car from OPC with OPC warranty in my man maths calculator.
OP, GT3 or a Turbo S Gen 2 are going to represent the least depreciation in my book. Good luck with the search.
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