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UncleP
Silverstone


Joined: 27 Feb 2019
Posts: 123



PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After sleeping on it.

I'm going to call the garage and see where they stand on doing all the repairs from the PPI along with slapping a clutch in while the box is off.

I'm happy to slowly refresh all the suspension, buying parts and doing the work myself over time. I'm about 8/10 happy with the body work condition. Fine with the colour and the interior is my ideal spec.

The advice and perspective here has really helped. It's easy to forget the age of the cars as they hide it so well and it's also easy to forget that the days of a clean £10k 996 are gone (cue scores of posts from people saying they bought a minter for £9K)
 
  
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g911omr
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 277



PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought my 3.4 C2 in May 2017. 53k miles.
The list of fairly recent work carried out by the previous owner was as follows.
Discs and pads all round
Clutch
M030 suspension
Coffin arms
Water reservoir
AOS
Manifolds and silencers
Rads and condensers
Water pump and thermostat
Starter and alternator
Spark plug tubes
Oxygen sensors
Coil packs
Along with normal servicing.
I paid £16k for the car which at the time seemed expensive, but having looked at countless tired worn out cars it just seemed more sensible to pay a bit more for a car that had been properly maintained.
The car you're looking at may have had some of these items or may need them in the near future.
If I were you I'd be driving a hard bargain.....and budget £5k worth of work.
 
  
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Paynewright
Monza


Joined: 17 Apr 2018
Posts: 195
Location: Nr Lutterworth Leics


PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought my 2003 C2 manual in Oct 17 privately and paid about 5/6k less than the dealers were asking. I’ve spent a bit on it - some necessary, some through choice eg two coil packs were cracked / degrading but I changed all 6. I’m able to do lots of work myself so having a car that needs fettling is not a problem as I like doing stuff on it (though putting off exhaust manifolds till next winter (again!)

I think the good thing is you’re going in eye wide open.
Ian
 
  
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911munKy
Montreal


Joined: 26 Nov 2014
Posts: 526



PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UncleP wrote:
After sleeping on it.

I'm going to call the garage and see where they stand on doing all the repairs from the PPI along with slapping a clutch in while the box is off.


^^^
This.
And get them to throw in a major service + full MOT and say you’ll pay the asking price. Tell them it will be a daily driver and must be 100% mechanically reliable and that it cant let you down for work, don’t worry about cosmetics.

As you say you can always pay for a clutch (and IMS seal flip) whilst the ‘box is off.

If they refuse I’d walk away as you are going to probably end up paying £5k+ to fix it up as it is so you’d be better off buying a sorted one. Chances are that you still spend several £1000 on it even if the garage sorts the issues as most owners bond with their car and like to improve it further.

Good luck.
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2000 C2 996
 
  
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dombo
Silverstone


Joined: 15 Mar 2015
Posts: 110



PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I paid £18500 for my C2 cab two years ago. First service I had everything done which was another £2k, making it a £20500 car. I don't count the Kline exhaust as that was probably overkill but then I certainly don't regret it either as the car is a keeper.
As someone above has said, a standard manual 996 is a 20k car. However it started as a 70k car, so expect bills to match....but the enjoyment of ownership far exceeds any other car for the money.
 
  
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UncleP
Silverstone


Joined: 27 Feb 2019
Posts: 123



PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Engine rebuilds and replacement gearboxes aside I didn't think parts prices looked too bad. Things like brakes, struts, coffin arms, water pumps, alternators, starters etc all looked surprisingly reasonable. I appreciate that it does all mount up over time.
 
  
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WD-40
Newbie


Joined: 31 Jan 2019
Posts: 15



PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last summer I bought a 2002 C4 with 55,000 miles for what I thought was a bargain £14.5k. It'd had a full (£15k+) engine rebuild in 2016 from a well reputed indy (albeit not Hartech) which gave me reassurance that it shouldn't bring in any ridiculous bills. But I knew it would need some money spending on it as it had been a bit neglected.

I knew the aircon wasn't working so budgeted £1k for that. And I knew that there was no evidence of suspension refresh so I thought (perhaps naively) £2-3k for that.

Anyway, it's now had replacement front shock absorbers, springs, bump stops, top mounts, lower arms, top suspension arms, front and rear anti roll bars, brake pipes, engine mounts, alternator, window mechanism, fan resistor, condensers amongst other things. Mostly from the aforementioned (and reassuringly expensive) indy.

Which blows a bit of a hole in the £20k 996 theory - it's now nearer a £25k car!

That said,I'm sure I could've got it done a lot cheaper and over a longer period of time, but I decided to just bite the bullet and get it all over and done with in the hope of having a well sorted, trouble free car to enjoy for a while... Although if I had my time again, I definitely would've done things a bit differently...
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2002 996 C4 Lapis Blue
 
  
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2951


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UncleP wrote:
Engine rebuilds and replacement gearboxes aside I didn't think parts prices looked too bad. Things like brakes, struts, coffin arms, water pumps, alternators, starters etc all looked surprisingly reasonable. I appreciate that it does all mount up over time.


Yep parts can be no more expensive than run of the mill cars if you use cp4l and autodoc.

Mostly the costs are down to paying specialist labour rates and buying parts from the OPC.

Like I say, I spent £6k 5 years for parts I spent a long time sourcing and stacking deals (e.g. I got sachs clutch, luk flywheel and bolts and bits for £450).

If I had been paying specialist labour rates, my car would easily be a £20k 996 too, and I still need to paint it to make it mint.
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My special order MY99 Vesuvious Charcoal 996 | Clutch, Fly RMS IMS AOS Job |
Steering Rack Hard Lines | Air Con Compressor / System
 
  
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GMG
Nürburgring


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 386
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...last January I paid £16.5k for a 69k miles genuinely immaculate 2 owner full Porsche history 2003 C2 Tip in lapis blue with black interior...

1000 miles later the ims stud broke; engine rebuild including new liners,complete rebuild of heads, new oil and tandem pumps etc,etc was close to £15k.

Since this I have refurbished the wheels, replaced the air conditioning radiators and a tricky seal in the aircon pipework,replaced both front springs,top mounts and bumpstops, replaced the exhaust which was going at the seams and now have a minor coolant leak that will require expense if it isn't the system burping itself following the rebuild?

I also elected to have both PU covers and wing mirror covers painted because I am super fussy...and new Porsche mats (£175!)

These cars, if you want them to be tip top, eat money...they are£70k odd cars with commensurate bills and are old !

You can have cheap or nothing needs doing/expensive ...you can't have both!
 
  
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UncleP
Silverstone


Joined: 27 Feb 2019
Posts: 123



PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bet you were glad you had that spare kidney.

Case above with the engine excluded I often wonder how much of quoted spend is necessary repairs as opposed to "refreshing/putting right" or otherwise possibly unnecessary spend. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I suffer the same affliction.

Anyway. The garage have agreed they will replace brakes, brake lines, exhaust, condensers, IMS/RMS leak. Still trying to persuade them to stick a new clutch in but if they refuse I'll buy one and get the mechanic to stick it in while they have the box out.
 
  
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911munKy
Montreal


Joined: 26 Nov 2014
Posts: 526



PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that’s not sounding too bad.

I’ve spent £7k in 4.5years on my car doing most of the work myself, half of that money was probably unnecessary to be spent at the time but it solved some issues early and makes the car nicer to drive/look at.
I’ve still got a few minor mechanical things to sort and cosmetically the car could do with some work but since it’s used all year round I’ll delay that.

My car was mechanically sound when I bought it and nothing major has gone wrong since then, finger crossed, rabbits foot, lucky heather...
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2000 C2 996
 
  
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Dammit
Watkins Glen


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 2229



PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote





They're not cheap, if you want them to be the cars that they should be.
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My 996, AKA Project Ridiculous
 
  
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sackerley
Monza


Joined: 16 Mar 2016
Posts: 195



PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread has prompted me to add up my ownership too....

The chap that owned the car before me spent 10k in 6 months then sold it to the dealer I bought it from. I guess he got spooked! Ims changed, new clutch, brake lines, rads. Most of the big stuff sorted just before I got it.

I’ve since spent in the last 3 years just shy of 7k. A large portion of this was a complete suspension overhaul. But also some cosmetics, bumper respray and servicing. It’s now pretty much spot on. My list now is bits I want to do.

I did buy the car at the higher end too, 16.5k.
_________________
1998 Artic Silver 996.1 - manual - carbon interior - Momo Protopito

Daily LCI M2
Daily... air cooled... Vespa
 
  
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Glasgow 911SC
Newbie


Joined: 09 Jun 2002
Posts: 46
Location: Glasgow


PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might be worth a further check on the sills, jacking points and wheel arches. The rusty bits underneath might be replicated under the underseal. there's been a few cleaner looking cars on here that have suffered in those areas. And the brake line over the gearbox would be much easier with the box out. Worth asking if they'll do that one too rather than just the visible ones?!
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1982 Porsche 911SC
1997 Porsche Boxster
 
  
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UncleP
Silverstone


Joined: 27 Feb 2019
Posts: 123



PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I said I wanted ALL the hard brake lines done. I'll get it all in writing when the deal is finalised and I'll pop over to Deutsch Tek when it's in. Sills were checked and inner lip of all arches were checked. 2 arches are just starting to go so I'll bilt hamber the crap out of them and deal with them properly in time

You can spend a fortune on any car if you try hard enough. I spent well over £6k fixing up a cheap old Peugeot and I bought a cheap mini cooper S in September and have since spent about £2k on it. Easy.
 
  
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Griffter
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 22 May 2016
Posts: 333



PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sounds like your eyes are wide open and things are going to work out well. Good luck, enjoy - that’s what it’s all for!
 
  
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dombo
Silverstone


Joined: 15 Mar 2015
Posts: 110



PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To put things in perspective, our two other everyday cars are a diesel Volvo estate and fiat 500, both bought as 3-year old cars in 2015. In addition to servicing, every penny of which I resent, these two have depreciated by £2k a year just sat on the drive, a very real cost which I will notice when I come to replace them.
While I don't expect my 996 to achieve air-cooled values any time soon or perhaps ever, my man-maths tells me she is the better value car in my stable.
 
  
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UncleP
Silverstone


Joined: 27 Feb 2019
Posts: 123



PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's exactly it dombo.

Last few years I've been leasing and financing brand new cars and at a rough estimate I've spent at least £20,000 over roughly 6 years and have nothing to show for it. I was well aware of the cost but this suited my car needs at the time.

Prior to that I bought used cars at around 3-4 years old which would still depreciate roughly £2k per year minimum as well as need an MOT and annual service then any unexpected repair bills on top. So best case scenario minimum £2.5k a year.

So my car ownership manquation says that
Flat depreciation/slight appreciation - maintenance x feel good factor >= newer car depreciation + maintenance

Plus new cars are just soulless, numb, generic things. My last couple of new cars have been a similar experience to getting a phone handset upgrade.
 
  
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2951


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UncleP wrote:
Yeah, I said I wanted ALL the hard brake lines done. I'll get it all in writing when the deal is finalised and I'll pop over to Deutsch Tek when it's in. Sills were checked and inner lip of all arches were checked. 2 arches are just starting to go so I'll bilt hamber the crap out of them and deal with them properly in time

You can spend a fortune on any car if you try hard enough. I spent well over £6k fixing up a cheap old Peugeot and I bought a cheap mini cooper S in September and have since spent about £2k on it. Easy.


Remove the rear plastic sill trims and treat any rust there, it will be rusty under there as its a dirt trap and if you halt it now it will stave off welding for a while.

You can see there are roughly 3 categories of 911 ownership.

A) "Just enough" to keep it on the road = baggy worn car
B) "enthusiast" = everything mechanical in order but cosmetically a bit worn (my car)
C) "OCD obsessive" = everything in order, probably repainted and perfect interior

The cheapest cars are A) but the best value cars are probably the B) and C) cars that have been gone over by an enthusiast getting A) cars up to scratch or C) cars that have just always had a big spender owners.

Either way if you are the type who doesn't mind getting your hands dirty or mind having the car off the road now and then the cost of ownership doesn't have to be a lot more than running boring machinery. But it will cost to keep the car "perfect".
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My special order MY99 Vesuvious Charcoal 996 | Clutch, Fly RMS IMS AOS Job |
Steering Rack Hard Lines | Air Con Compressor / System
 
  
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UncleP
Silverstone


Joined: 27 Feb 2019
Posts: 123



PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, in my "initial research phase" I was reading the big early 3.4 thread on Pistonheads and was reading Dammit's posts about his expenditure to get the car how he wanted it. Definitely a "C".

Initially I thought the car this thread is about was a B but I now know it's an A. The way I see it I'll end up spending on any car to make it the way I want it.
 
  
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