Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:16 am Post subject: 4 years on. What now ?
I can't believe that it's 4 years ago today that I took this photograph to celebrate the purchase of my 'new' mistress.
The 996T was only kept for a few weeks after the picture was taken as I soon realised that she'd hardly be used and I didn't have the facility to garage two cars. With hindsight I could have paid to put her in storage for 6 months and still made a few extra £k but, hey-ho, that's history now.
At some time over the last six months I had hoped to recreate this picture with a 991S taking the place of the 996T but sadly the current flat market for these cars hasn't allowed it. I wasn't intending to be greedy by keeping two 911s but I did want to 'hedge my bets' by not selling 'Red' until her successor was in place. Sadly the supply of sub-£55k 991S cars seems to have dried up since Christmas so the likelihood of me finding the one I want before the 2019 driving season gets underway seems remote.
More recently I decided that I couldn't take the risk of having money tied up in two depreciating assets so took the decision to part with my current car first. Sadly this hasn't materialised either because I haven't received an offer for my beautiful red car of anything like what it's worth to me.
My quandary now is whether to (a) leave the 997T on the market and wait or (b) to put my search for a newer car on hold for 12-14 months and get on with enjoying the delights of a 997 turbo all over again.
It' s often said that 'absence makes the heart grow fonder' and, after nearly 6 months apart, I'm starting to realise that this might be the case for me and 'Red'. The only reason for me deciding to change in the first place was that after nearly 4 years and over 21k miles the time just felt right. It wasn't an easy decision to make and it took quite a while for me to come to terms with it.
Perhaps fate is keeping us together. _________________ 2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
Last edited by T8 on Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:27 pm; edited 3 times in total
spongebob squarepants Zolder
Joined: 20 Dec 2009 Posts: 5111 Location: Manchester and Iraq
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:14 am Post subject:
Nope time to change Everyone is rooting for you on getting a 991!
Really feel your pain, realistically you need more money or a period without a 911 after the sale of red for 991’s to depreciate more? (Not as we want them to depreciate lol)
Life is too short, and although the 997 turbo I’m sure is brilliant, the 991 is something else and well worth the wait
If you keep red and add more miles, surely your problems just get worse. Mileage is the killer _________________ 991 C2S PDK with X51 430 powerkit in racing yellow, PCCB, PDCC, PSE, Carrera S alloys, Sports design kit and ducktail.
“Herman yellow, the last of the naturally aspirated”
EX 997.2 Carrera 4S PDK
EX 997.2 Carrera S PDK
EX 993 C2 manual in guards red
EX 997 C2 gen 2 PDK
EX 993 Targa
EX 993 Carrera 4 manual
EX 996 3.4 Cabriolet
EX 986 boxster
Rojdog Silverstone
Joined: 08 Nov 2018 Posts: 103 Location: Essex
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:13 am Post subject:
996T....997T hard act to follow, are you sure a 991S will live up to the last two?
G2 Barcelona
Joined: 26 Oct 2015 Posts: 1347
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:57 am Post subject:
I’m sure you will find one this year T. The positive is free winter storage. Sunshine is coming out 1st March...
The spring always starts a reshuffle of ownership which makes a lot more available.
You have probably thought of this. But would the dealer keep marketing the car whilst you drive it a bit? Red has always looked showroom ready to me wherever I’ve seen it _________________ 997 Gen2 Turbo S - Speed.
991 C4S - Riviera.
T8 General
Joined: 29 Jun 2010 Posts: 15344 Location: Kent
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:53 am Post subject:
Rojdog wrote:
996T....997T hard act to follow, are you sure a 991S will live up to the last two?
You're right about them both being hard acts to follow. After 6 years of enjoying the torque that makes these cars so driveable and the occasional turbo 'rush' I will miss it but sadly there's no choice if I want to get into a newer 911 for less than £55k.
I've driven several 991s and see the 'S' as the best compromise. Nowadays it's getting more and more difficult to exploit the performance of any seriously fast car in the UK. I think/hope that 400 bhp will still be enough to make my twice-yearly jaunts to 'The Fatherland' fun.
I'm getting older too. _________________ 2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
Geezer 911 Trainee
Joined: 14 Aug 2017 Posts: 77 Location: Essex Boy
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:55 am Post subject:
Hoping my opinion isn’t to controversial but I would keep the Turbo. You know mechanically there is nothing wrong with it as I’m guessing you have looked after it well. Even when you buy a newer car with good history it is still the unknown if there are issues. Ever since I brought my Gen 2 Carrera S even though I did a PPI which had good report I have still thrown quite a bit of money to make it perfect.
There is no crystal ball that can really predict the future but your spec and colour surely will make your car go back to commanding a premium in the short/medium future.
991 are looking great cars. For me the 997 is the sweet spot.
T8 General
Joined: 29 Jun 2010 Posts: 15344 Location: Kent
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:01 am Post subject:
Geezer 911 wrote:
Hoping my opinion isn’t to controversial but I would keep the Turbo. You know mechanically there is nothing wrong with it as I’m guessing you have looked after it well.
It's the main reason I'm seriously now considering sticking. _________________ 2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
kas750 Reims
Joined: 31 Mar 2013 Posts: 4435 Location: Chorley lancashire
Without doubt you should keep the turbo.Absolutely killer looks and performance and a Porsche made by Porsche before the nonsense interference by VW
Counter Of Beans Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 10 May 2018 Posts: 281 Location: Hampshire
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:20 pm Post subject:
T8 (Terry), out of curiosity I just did a search on Autotrader for 2007-8 997 Turbo coupe tips, any miles. Thirteen cars, including yours, came up (well, one is LHD so ignore that). If you order them in mileage, yours comes out 11th of 13.
Don't get me wrong, I doubt any of them are as well kept as yours, and I would never be so rude as to comment adversely on your sale or chosen price - your call, naturally.
OK, my point; your choice might boil down to this:
1) keep it, enjoy a car you know inside out, in short - love it, or
2) list it (can you spot the Kirsty and Phil theme?) but for, say £6k less than currently on Autotrader for - i.e. sub £50k. I know it's on here for £50k but I guess that's rather a small audience
3) do nothing and wait for summer, see what happens.
Probably unhelpful, sorry, but just my thoughts. If it was me I'd do 2) and save up for the next one, but that's just me.
Regards, Mike. _________________ 2011 Gen 2 Carrera 2 coupe, Ohlins R&T, Arctic / black, low mileage, mint!
Last edited by Counter Of Beans on Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
KJD Suzuka
Joined: 18 Feb 2015 Posts: 1242 Location: Monmouthshire
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:48 pm Post subject:
Surely red can’t depreciate much more over the next 12months and less than a 991 will. Confidence in the market may return after Brexit, are prospective buyers just holding back at the moment?
One more season with red and perhaps everything becomes clearer. _________________ Arctic Silver 997 Manual Carrera 2s
TonyC911 Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 06 Jun 2016 Posts: 331 Location: High Wycombe, Bucks
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:44 pm Post subject:
I think you made a telling comment in your original post - 'I haven't received an offer for my beautiful red car of anything like what it's worth to me'
I know it's a cliche, but your car will only ever be worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Maintaining a mass produced sports car is usually a labour of love, that unfortunately does not add a huge amount of ££'s value. IMHO you either need to continue waiting for the guy at the end of the rainbow, or bite the bullet and accept an offer nearer the market value. _________________ 2007 Carrerra S
2005 Boxster S
2003 Boxster 2.7
1998 Boxster 2.5
spongebob squarepants Zolder
Joined: 20 Dec 2009 Posts: 5111 Location: Manchester and Iraq
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:20 pm Post subject:
TonyC911 wrote:
I think you made a telling comment in your original post - 'I haven't received an offer for my beautiful red car of anything like what it's worth to me'
I know it's a cliche, but your car will only ever be worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Maintaining a mass produced sports car is usually a labour of love, that unfortunately does not add a huge amount of ££'s value. IMHO you either need to continue waiting for the guy at the end of the rainbow, or bite the bullet and accept an offer nearer the market value.
+1 , the harsh reality, it’s a stunning car, but the mileage will always work against it, keeping for longer can only add to that problem. Mileage as we know has a huge affect on prices with Porsche.
991 more man maths, more money! You only live once (I’m an expert at the adding more money part ) _________________ 991 C2S PDK with X51 430 powerkit in racing yellow, PCCB, PDCC, PSE, Carrera S alloys, Sports design kit and ducktail.
“Herman yellow, the last of the naturally aspirated”
EX 997.2 Carrera 4S PDK
EX 997.2 Carrera S PDK
EX 993 C2 manual in guards red
EX 997 C2 gen 2 PDK
EX 993 Targa
EX 993 Carrera 4 manual
EX 996 3.4 Cabriolet
EX 986 boxster
T8 General
Joined: 29 Jun 2010 Posts: 15344 Location: Kent
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:54 pm Post subject:
Big thanks to everybody for your contributions. You all clearly understand my situation as none of you have said anything that I haven't already said to myself at some time over the last 6 months.
My biggest frustration is that I made the decision to change cars early last summer but left it until the end of August before doing anything about it - by which time the market for these cars had started to slow significantly.
From the start I'd calculated that my long held adoration for the 991, in 2S guise, to me was worth, at most, £7k over the value that I put on my beloved 'Red'. My primary motivation was that I'd be getting into a five year newer car with 20k less miles on the clock and would still have 400 horses to have fun with.
I recognised that the only way I was going to achieve that £7k 'cost to change' was to sell my car privately or through SoR. Part-Exchange was never going to be an option open to me.
Since my car has been for sale I have watched the market for all 911s in the £45k-£60k bracket like a hawk and know just how few have sold in that time. Asking prices for some cars have fallen but even that has made very little difference. I've been around long enough to know that if a car is of interest to someone they would be quick to view it and make an offer. All asking prices are negotiable - even when a car has already been reduced - so I've deliberately chosen to keep my starting price constant. If a serious buyer came along I'd be happy to talk but it certainly won't be leaving me at anything like 'trade money'.
As I said previously, I'm in the fortunate position that should the right 991S come along I would be able to buy it and worry about the sale of 'Red' afterwards. In the current market this would be far less palatable but it does show that neither 'saving up' or utilising my degree in 'man-maths' are relevant to my situation.
I have done some soul-searching to establish whether my original £7k 'cost to change' budget is flexible and have concluded that, for the right 991S, it might be but that doesn't alter the fact that the right 991S would need to come along before my desire to get driving a 911 again takes hold.
Going back to my first post on this thread my dilemma remains as to whether I should (a) wait a bit longer to see what the Spring market is like or (b) keep the car I already love for a while longer and take the risk that the depreciation cost for adding extra miles will not exceed the 'depreciation by age' that early 991s will endure.
I know it's a 'first-world' situation that I am in but that doesn't make it any less frustrating for me.
_________________ 2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
997 turbo = genuine supercar with known history and iconic engine and in a proper Porsche colour.
991 C2S
buying at the lower end your probably even going to have to settle for an everyday colour
Personally unless you saw a special car a bit like SBSP Yellow with a power kit , I really would be holding on to the Turbo. and leave the cash in the bank.
_________________ 911 Owners,Some Invest In The Future,
Others Enjoy The Moment Today.
I dont think this is alot of miles and if your car is in mint condition i would buy your one over less miles but not in great condition. not sure why every body is bothered about miles it,s got 70k on it
Terry, you have a very nice problem to be thinking about.
Whatever you decide, there is no bad outcome.
I think you will be waiting a long time to sell for £50-55k. If the price was £45-50k, it would probably be sold by now. However that would increase your cost to change to £13k, which may not be justifiable in your mind. _________________ 997.2 Carrera PDK
I dont think this is alot of miles and if your car is in mint condition i would buy your one over less miles but not in great condition. not sure why every body is bothered about miles it,s got 70k on it
Agreed. The mileage isn't a big deal to me however to someone like Spongebob, it's unsellable _________________ 997.2 Carrera PDK
T8 General
Joined: 29 Jun 2010 Posts: 15344 Location: Kent
Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:26 pm Post subject:
benbuhagiar wrote:
Terry, you have a very nice problem to be thinking about.
Whatever you decide, there is no bad outcome.
I think you will be waiting a long time to sell for £50-55k. If the price was £45-50k, it would probably be sold by now.
Cheers Ben.
I took the view that, for a private sale, pricing it at somewhere between trade and retail would be fair - especially given the long OPC Warranty on the car. My £49,995 'asking price' was only a starting point for negotiating a sale.
Similarly if someone was looking to spend c£50k on such a car at a specialist I'd expect them to show an interest in cars advertised at up to £55k. There's always deals to be done on trade-in prices, paying in cash or taking out finance.
The £7k 'cost to change' I'd anticipated was based on £48k vs £55k. _________________ 2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
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Everyone is rooting for you on getting a 991!
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