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Basalt911
Newbie


Joined: 12 Feb 2019
Posts: 17



PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:19 pm    Post subject: Time to move on? Reply with quote

Hi

One time forum member, long time lurker, I thought it time to seek counsel

After 6 years, I'm thinking of getting rid of my 997.1

The car is great and in really good order, but I only do 3k miles a year (currently 92k) as I use run-about (Mini Cooper D) for day to day and commuting. The special days are still special, but they seem few and far between. Plus my annual Le Mans trip will soon need to be accompanied by my 2 sons...

Bills have been ok, and there are none of the warning signs of impending doom. Even though my car as all the 'preventative measures' installed, I always fear 'the big one'. Whilst I could probably afford a re-build, it would be really sickening on a car worth circa £20k.

I'm thinking of chopping it (and the run about) in and getting a £30k M2/M3/M4 or even (whisper it) a Golf R and then using it every day.

I guess others have been in the same boat and decided one way or another. Really interested in hearing how others have rationalised it.

cheers,
Dave
 
  
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BChivs
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 02 Aug 2017
Posts: 352



PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Time to move on? Reply with quote

Basalt911 wrote:
Hi

One time forum member, long time lurker, I thought it time to seek counsel

After 6 years, I'm thinking of getting rid of my 997.1

The car is great and in really good order, but I only do 3k miles a year (currently 92k) as I use run-about (Mini Cooper D) for day to day and commuting. The special days are still special, but they seem few and far between. Plus my annual Le Mans trip will soon need to be accompanied by my 2 sons...

Bills have been ok, and there are none of the warning signs of impending doom. Even though my car as all the 'preventative measures' installed, I always fear 'the big one'. Whilst I could probably afford a re-build, it would be really sickening on a car worth circa £20k.

I'm thinking of chopping it (and the run about) in and getting a £30k M2/M3/M4 or even (whisper it) a Golf R and then using it every day.

I guess others have been in the same boat and decided one way or another. Really interested in hearing how others have rationalised it.

cheers,
Dave


Tough call but I can relate to this.....I had my last Porsche for only a brief spell. I loved the car but I was one of the unlucky ones. I have been looking to replace it since but seems unless spending almost double there is little that is grabbing me. I have found myself looking back at fast BMW’s. I know on this Porsche forum they receive bad press, but they have always been great all round cars for me. Cheapish to run, comfy enough to bomb down to the south of France, don’t stand out in Tesco but also catch eyes at a breakfast meet and have better rear seats for my little boy with proper isofix. I test drove an M2 and was blown away. Felt much bigger inside and proper quick....you also have more affordable tuning potential...a DMS remap will see 420ish BHP. I am currently swaying towards a Valencia 1M Coupe due to stronger residuals, but if future value was of no consideration I would be driving home an M2 Competition Manual tomorrow.
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Slayer
Indianapolis


Joined: 29 Dec 2010
Posts: 2368
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have moved on to Golf R and A45 AMG after owning a few Porkers.

Golf R is an understated good every day car. Get the right spec , you won't regret. Some may find it boring with the 4WD due to lack of being tail happy!.
If you are into remap etc, it could a bit more lively.

Not terribly expensive to maintain either.
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Phil 997
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 15061
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As BChivs says there are a number of options if and its a big IF a fast soulless euro box will give you those special big grin days. if all you want is licence losing straight line speed then there are a number of Audis and BMWs that are very fast . but they will not make that drive at event and special.
I see them flying past me every day taking risks overtaking and the reason for this is simply all you can do is go fast other than that they are totally soulless bland boxes.
As you say your 997 may only be worth 20k ish as it is but should it go bang and need a rebuild it will be worth 27/29k so most of the cost recouped . as you say the 997 has cost you virtually nothing for the past 6 years and probably hasn't cost you must in depreciation in that time. why are you worried even if a rebuild was needed I bet its the cheapest overall annual motoring you have had in your driving life. I am for keeping it , it doesn't owe you a penny its holding its value and its fantastic fun to drive . ok one a year for a couple of days you may need something bigger for your sons ,so hire something for a few hundred quid , rather than give up your fun weekend toy.

ultimately its your call but I have had many fast BMWs over the years they are just not a patch on the fun of driving a 911.
hope some of my post gives you some food for thought. Thumb
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Basalt911
Newbie


Joined: 12 Feb 2019
Posts: 17



PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil 997 wrote:
As you say your 997 may only be worth 20k ish as it is but should it go bang and need a rebuild it will be worth 27/29k so most of the cost recouped . as you say the 997 has cost you virtually nothing for the past 6 years and probably hasn't cost you must in depreciation in that time. why are you worried even if a rebuild was needed I bet its the cheapest overall annual motoring you have had in your driving life. I am for keeping it , it doesn't owe you a penny its holding its value and its fantastic fun to drive Thumb


all of this is true, and a very convincing argument...my last Merc and BMW halved in value over less than 3 years...I paid £26k at a respected Indy for my 911 in 2012 and reckon it's worth £22k ish now...

(notice you're in Bournemouth Phil...I'm in Ringwood)
 
  
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Phil 997
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 15061
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basalt911 wrote:
Phil 997 wrote:
As you say your 997 may only be worth 20k ish as it is but should it go bang and need a rebuild it will be worth 27/29k so most of the cost recouped . as you say the 997 has cost you virtually nothing for the past 6 years and probably hasn't cost you must in depreciation in that time. why are you worried even if a rebuild was needed I bet its the cheapest overall annual motoring you have had in your driving life. I am for keeping it , it doesn't owe you a penny its holding its value and its fantastic fun to drive Thumb


all of this is true, and a very convincing argument...my last Merc and BMW halved in value over less than 3 years...I paid £26k at a respected Indy for my 911 in 2012 and reckon it's worth £22k ish now...

(notice you're in Bournemouth Phil...I'm in Ringwood)


Blimey mate I am in Ferndown . Theres quite a few members around this area. 6.5 years and its cost you 4k in depreciation and very little in running cost . why on earth do you want to sell it. Seems your biggest worry is borescore , spend a couple of hundred quid and get it scoped that would tell you if its a keeper . 92k if its got the older IMS, at that milage the commonly accepted view is if was going to go it would have by now . If you need the number of a time served mobile Porsche tech who can scope it and check it over let me know . Thumb
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TonyC911
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 06 Jun 2016
Posts: 293
Location: High Wycombe, Bucks


PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a really tricky one! Likewise, I am getting close to having to make a similar decision. Prices on the Gen 1's are continuing to fall (albeit very gradual), so it's probably a case of keeping it forever and trying to forget about the money tied-up in it, just enjoying it (as much as possible).

I am still heavily invested in the Porsche brand and especially the 911. Whilst I really like the Gen 2's I am having a tough time justifying the upgrade costs for such a similar car, albeit with stronger residuals.

At this moment, I am leaning towards selling next year and getting a 991, which should be easily doable at around £40-£45k privately. However, my mind could change next week! Confused
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BChivs
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 02 Aug 2017
Posts: 352



PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil 997 wrote:
As BChivs says there are a number of options if and its a big IF a fast soulless euro box will give you those special big grin days. if all you want is licence losing straight line speed then there are a number of Audis and BMWs that are very fast . but they will not make that drive at event and special.
I see them flying past me every day taking risks overtaking and the reason for this is simply all you can do is go fast other than that they are totally soulless bland boxes.
As you say your 997 may only be worth 20k ish as it is but should it go bang and need a rebuild it will be worth 27/29k so most of the cost recouped . as you say the 997 has cost you virtually nothing for the past 6 years and probably hasn't cost you must in depreciation in that time. why are you worried even if a rebuild was needed I bet its the cheapest overall annual motoring you have had in your driving life. I am for keeping it , it doesn't owe you a penny its holding its value and its fantastic fun to drive . ok one a year for a couple of days you may need something bigger for your sons ,so hire something for a few hundred quid , rather than give up your fun weekend toy.

ultimately its your call but I have had many fast BMWs over the years they are just not a patch on the fun of driving a 911.
hope some of my post gives you some food for thought. Thumb


I agree to an extent, especially with regard to residuals....you would be mad to get into a new M car...the New M5 is £100k plus yet I have seen 6 month old examples for circa £70k!!!! Mental if you can afford to chuck away £30-40k in 6months.

I think though if your careful what you go for there values are strong. E.g a low mileage E93 M3 Comp pack, E46 CSL, 1M, Z3M/Z4M and even early M2’s around the £30k figure are all safe places to put your money and will retain solid.
I not going to totally disagree with the Porsche v BMW character arguement....I loved the drama of my C4S....backing that fat noisey ass out of the garage always made me grin, but I don’t think you can say all BM’s and Merc’s are soulless. The M3 CSL is a legend in its own right, and the 1M is following in its footsteps hailed by every journalist as a perfect little setup and a pure drivers car.
I have tried desperately to want a 997.2 C2S having driven 2 now, but couldn’t get excited about them....just left me feeling a bit flat. For me for I’d need that little extra such as a 996/997 turbo which for good examples are more than I can justify for the little use it will receive.

Then there is the image....I paid £26k for my Porsche and everyone thought I’d won the lottery and I actually heard of ***** that made snide remarks about where I’d got the money from and I was probably on the take! It was only £26k!
If I went and spent £40k odd on a 1M nobody would even comment on its value and would just compliment. Funny old world we live in!
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James M-S
Imola


Joined: 11 Apr 2017
Posts: 867
Location: Derbyshire

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not enjoy the 911 every day on the commute?

How big are your kids? In my opinion the 911 is the perfect three-seater. (I’m 6’4”). My tall 9&11 yr olds fit fine.

Thought about a 997.2 if you fear a big bill, or a Panamera?

Don’t want to shatter your dreams but I think you’ll struggle to get £20k for yours, especially at this time of year.

I’m tempted by 2014 M5’s for when my kids don’t fit in the 911. 25-30% of original list price!

Or what about swap the mini for a golf gti (for daily/family fun), and swap the 911 for a cayman/Boxster/Elise/caterham (for solo fun/high days&holidays) Elise or caterham unlikely to depreciate. That would fit your total budget?
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hermes
Newbie


Joined: 08 May 2017
Posts: 24



PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:27 am    Post subject: What to do.... Reply with quote

I found myself in this position. 70,000 miles on my C4S, and just a hint of something not right with the lump at the back. I had hoped to use the car as a stepping stone to a 996/997 GT3.

In the end I sent the car to Hartech, and there is wear consistent with the mileage, which would reasonably command a heavily discounted sale price (if someone did a borescope). So, sell at a big discount, or fix it and keep it.

I decided to fix mine, and keep it. Spending the GT3 budget on nice bits instead (OEM bucket seats, suspension refresh for example).
 
  
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rabbitstew
Hockenheim


Joined: 21 Aug 2015
Posts: 684



PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James M-S wrote:
Why not enjoy the 911 every day on the commute?

How big are your kids? In my opinion the 911 is the perfect three-seater. (I’m 6’4”). My tall 9&11 yr olds fit fine.


Thats exactly what I do. I couldnt justify having the 911 just as a weekend car as with a wife & 2 kids I dont get time at the weekends to enjoy any of my toys, and so I just use my car as a daily driver. I do 14,000 miles a year in it and every single drive is a special event, even now. Whether that's driving for 7 hours when I went to Newcastle & back in a day, or just driving 4 miles to the local train station then leaving it in the car park all day.

The cars subtle enough that people dont even notice it, unless you know what it is! It also makes me smile dropping the kids off at school when all the other parents are driving big Range Rover sized trucks.
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hermes
Newbie


Joined: 08 May 2017
Posts: 24



PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:34 am    Post subject: What to do.... Reply with quote

I should have said, my C4S is also my daily driver. About a 1000 miles a month.
 
  
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easternjets
Kyalami


Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 1874
Location: Darlington


PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It must be the time of year, I've been looking to change out of the Porsche and into another car, dare I say it an AMG Merc!
After much haggling and 'sleeping on it's' I decided against it, for the moment at least. Main reason was I need 4 seats, only very occasionally but a strict two seater just seemed impractical, I have an SUV but I use it all the time so you do want a bit of a change on sunny days.
I've got to admit to being a bit of a sucker for shiny new cars, especially when they're loaded like the Merc and the sound!
They are epic but Merc are struggling to sell them and TBH I think I've only seen two on the road, so whilst they are rareish I was worried about the ability to sell it on.
So for now my turbo is still in the garage and the Merc is still in the showroom!
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Roro
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Oct 2010
Posts: 6270



PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M2 is a great car. I'm very happy with mine, perfect daily and partner to the GT3. Nothing bad to say about it, but perhaps because I still have my GT3 which has all the sports car qualities that the M2 doesn't. Not sure I'd feel the same about the M2 if it was my only car... Compared to the GT3 the steering is numb and the manual gear change is more or less fine (typical BMW mush), but again that's partly why the M2 is a great daily. It's a bit more insulated but sporty, and has a nice turn of speed and excitement when needed, and looks amazing in my view. Haven't taken it on track yet, but I expect it to be good fun albeit rather remote-feeling compared to the GT3
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Rincewind
Newbie


Joined: 10 Aug 2018
Posts: 13
Location: Cambridgeshire


PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am also in the daily driver camp, albeit with a 996.2. I came out of a company car scheme when I changed jobs, I was in a 330d MSport + Touring which was great for a commute and lugging stuff around.

I contemplated another quick BMW, Golf R etc. but finally decided on the 996. My kids being a bit older (9 and 13) was actually one of the reasons for going down the 996 route. They both fit in the back really easily, when I tried a few years ago my sons legs poked into the back of the front seats as they weren't long enough to get his knees past the edge of the seat.

There is enough space for the four of us, the small dog and a few bags for a weekend away (again easier than when they were smaller and you needed to take more stuff).

It now does the daily commute with me and my son to school, with a bike on the roof for the last bit of my commute and occasionally a harp in the back with the seats down!! The roof rack means I can even get some wood on the roof for DIY. Super practical and I always enjoy the journey. Even scarily managed to get the fuel range indicator to register 457 miles on a fresh tank on a recent trip to Manchester (I think the 50mph roadworks for miles on the M6 helped) - not sure I will ever see that again!

As an aside discovered that the wife's mini Clubman was more practical for getting luggage to the airport than the 3 series touring.

If that wasn't clear - a vote for sticking with the 997!!
 
  
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hedgehogsdad
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 16 Sep 2013
Posts: 272



PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like this is something that many of us think about at some point or other...

I'm going through the same thoughts at the moment. My Turbo is a weekend car and does between 3k and 5k a year, but is now at 82k. I've always needed a sensible daily due to mileage, but I now have my own business and only anticipate doing 10k a year from now.

I'm thinking that I fancy a C63 AMG, and am torn between chucking back the 135 and getting the Merc on a PCP, or (dare I say it) selling the Turbo and buying the Merc with the proceeds.

First world problem I know, but it is one which I'm really not sure which way to go.

Good luck either way OP Thumb Question
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James M-S
Imola


Joined: 11 Apr 2017
Posts: 867
Location: Derbyshire

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HAve you ever tried a Merc Auto?

I just can’t get on with them.

I also find that the AMG engine sounds great and is fun in straight line, v fast, torquey, tail happy etc, but that’s it. No satisfaction in the corners, feedback through steering etc.
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johnt993997
Newbie


Joined: 13 Jan 2019
Posts: 30
Location: Hertfordshire / Buckinghamshire border nr. Aylesbury / Hemel Hempstead


PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel your 'pain' - everyone is different, so no 'right' or wrong, and sometimes a change is needed even if there's nowt wrong!

I don't drive daily, and most of my 'functional' driving I do in the wives 320d which is great. For my 'toy' I have looked at lots of options, but it really comes down to depreciation really - for me, as the car is a luxury, I can't stand losing money in depreciation, so I'd rather buy older/more special and pay more to maintain it as (apart from a rare big bang) this generally is far less than depreciation on most sub 40k cars under 5 yrs old.

If I were you I'd get it borescoped, plan a road trip, fall back in love with it, and buy something cheapish but fun for the everyday!

(that said, I would only do this if the porca was garaged! I'm pretty ***** about this, and would struggle to leave a weekend car outside when I don't use it that often).

All this said, I have a mate who uses his M2 most days, loves it, and is planning to keep it a long time so isn't so worried about the depreciation, so fair play to him.

Final comment - I just came from an E46 m3 to a 997 c2s. The engine in the m3 felt more special, less brawny but more racey, the rest of the car felt a lot less special.
That said it was notably more usable family wise, but for me this wasn't enough to keep it. I just didn't love it.
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hedgehogsdad
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 16 Sep 2013
Posts: 272



PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James M-S wrote:
HAve you ever tried a Merc Auto?

I just can’t get on with them.

I also find that the AMG engine sounds great and is fun in straight line, v fast, torquey, tail happy etc, but that’s it. No satisfaction in the corners, feedback through steering etc.


Not yet, I'm trying one this weekend. That's how I imagined it would be and so am looking forward to experiencing one myself.
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easternjets
Kyalami


Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 1874
Location: Darlington


PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you think a Merc auto box is difficult then never try a Merc manual, they are terrible.
The Porsche tip box was actually, I believe, a Merc box.

Unfortunately the 'specialness' of my 997.2 has been slightly tainted this last year by the nonsense that's been going on in our region with the Porsche Club. Long standing members have been leaving, others have changed Region and some have even chopped their car in and walked away altogether!
I know the actions of a few should be ignored but it has left a lot of owners feeling pretty despondent.

And on a last note, I test drove a McLaren in November, since then I've had monthly communication from McLaren and yesterday I was invited on a Millbrook test day. Apparently there will be various models of car to drive and professional drivers on hand to give us guidance and it's free. Never had that offer from Porsche and I've owned 6 of them!
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