Welcome to 911UK
The only place for Porsche, 911uk is the definitive enthusiast and resource site for the Porsche 911.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so join up today for full access to the site and benefit from latest member offers.

Porsche Classifieds
Sell Your Porsche on 911uk
Create a Free Classified Advert
Search Ads
Classified Adverts FAQ
Trade Classified Information
Buyer & Seller Fraud Protection
Consumer Rights Act
Pre Purchase Inspection (PPI)
Porsche Car Sourcing
Porsche Cars Wanted
Official Porsche Centre Reviews
Model
Stock
Porsche 911
991 : 2011- 21
997 : 2004- 71
996 : 1997-2005 35
993 : 1993-1998 3
964 : 1989-1993 3
Carrera 3.2 : 1983-1989 3
Carrera SC : 1977-1983 1
930 Turbo : 1975-1989 0
Early 911 : 1964-1977 0
Porsche Other Models
Classic : 1950-1965 0
Boxster : 1997- 25
Cayman : 2005- 14
Cayenne : 2003- 2
Macan : 2014- 2
Panamera : 2009- 2
912-914-924-928-944-968 2
959 - CarreraGT - RaceCar 0
Car Parts For Sale & Wanted
Other Items For Sale & Wanted
Wheels Tyres For Sale & Wanted
Number Plates For Sale Wanted

Porsche Services
Porsche Body Shop Repair
Paint Protection & Wrapping
Porsche Classic Insurance
Porsche Classic Parts
Porsche Classic Restoration
Porsche Design Collection
Porsche Engine Gearbox Rebuild
Porsche Heritage & History
Porsche News
Porsche Picture Gallery
Win a New Porsche 911

Porsche Parts
Body Parts, Body Styling
Brakes, Clearance
Electrical, Exhausts
Engine Cooling, Engine Electrical
Engine Rebuild, Heating Cooling
Interior Incar, Lighting
Rubber Seals, Service Parts
Steering, Suspension
Transmission, Workshop Tools
Early 911, 911 - 930, 928 - 968
964 - 993, 996 - 997, Boxster
Cayman, Cayenne, Panamera

Porsche Model Range
911 [991] 2011-Current
Porsche 911 [991]
911 [997] 2004-Current
Porsche 911 [997]
911 [GT] GT1-GT2-GT3
Porsche 911 [GT]
911 [996] 1997-2005
Porsche 911 [996]
911 [993] 1993-1998
Porsche 911 [993]
911 [RS] RS-RSR
Porsche 911 [RS]
911 [964] 1989-1993
Porsche 911 [964]
911 3.2 1983-1989
Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera
911 SC 1977-1983
Porsche 911 SC
911 [Early] 1964-1977
Porsche 911 [Early]
Boxster & Cayman
Porsche Boxster & Cayman
Cayenne & Panamera
Porsche Cayenne & Panamera

911uk Site Partners

Post new topic   Reply to topic
Author Message
AA3751
Newbie


Joined: 17 Jul 2016
Posts: 19



PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:39 pm    Post subject: PCP vs HP... Reply with quote

Hi guys ... Newbie to the 911 forum !

So after plenty of thought I have decided I am going to buy a 911! Exciting times....

Ideally I think a Carerra S around 3-4 years old with some spec, ideal options being sports chrono and sports exhaust

Would appreciate some advice on how best to fund the car in order to lose as little money as possible as I plan to keep it around 18 months then upgrade to maybe a GTS/something else but don't want to be restricted to Porsche. Monthly payment amount isn't a factor so what I'm asking is am I better with a PCP deal or just a straight HP and where am I likely to lose the least?

Thanks in advance !
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Norfolk & Idea
Albert Park


Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Posts: 1537
Location: South Yorkshire


PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HP. PCP is basically an interest only repayment. Your monthly payments will be less but you'll never actually own the car. That said, there are robust debates for PCP. I've just secured a build slot on a Macan GTS and gone down the HP route.
_________________
2012 997.2 Turbo Basalt Black. Bit of a 9E ing.
2008 Ducati 1098R (Track)
2016 Macan GTS
2019 Vito119 CDI Sport- Household Star!
2018 Ducati Panigale V4S (Track)
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
GT4
Nordschleife
Nordschleife


Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 30178
Location: Hertfordshire and Hampshire


PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In general, whichever has the lowest monthly repayments (assuming the same interest rate) will cost you the most.

By that I mean the longer you hold a capital balance (or the bigger that balance), the more interest you will pay.

But it is unlikely the comparison will be on the same (daily) interest rate.

So you will need to ask for a projection for each method assuming repayment in a year etc.

They may even have different termination fees (which will constitute part of the overall cost of taking that method of payment)
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Roro
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Oct 2010
Posts: 6330



PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ what he said

Always look at the APR which includes all the rates/fees applicable and is to be used as the baseline for comparing deals
_________________
2007 997.1 GT3
2017 F87 M2
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
cheshire911
Estoril


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3828



PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you plan to buy outright at the end of the PCP (by paying off the baloon payment) it is usually more expensive than a loan or HP from the outset.

The PCP is effectively financing the depreciation with interest.
The loan or HP is financing the initial purchase price with interest whilst your asset is depreciating.
_________________
996 2002 X50 Turbo Manual
"Once bitten; forever smitten"
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
wilpert
Albert Park


Joined: 06 Jun 2010
Posts: 1665
Location: London

2016 Porsche Boxster 987

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm no financial expert but my simplistic take on it is:
Put as much deposit that you can afford from Unborrowed funds.
Finance the difference with money borrowed at the best rate you can get it, I.e. Personal bank loan.
This way, you will feel like the car is at least partly yours from the outset and as you make the payments you will own a little bit more all the time.

And come resale time, you ought to have a decent deposit for your next car as you will have some equity in the car as px or private sale.
_________________
It's only for life.
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
mzmini
Barcelona


Joined: 30 Jan 2015
Posts: 1438
Location: Somerset


PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wilpert that's just about my take on car finance from the perspective of a private buyer but I am sure other methods my well be more tax efficient for VAT registered business Thumb
_________________
997 3.8 C2S
987 Boxster 3.4S
Disco 3
2012 VW Polo

1964 1071 Cooper S
1964 1071 Cooper S 1991 Pirelli Classic winner
1971 1275 Cooper S as new time warp
1996 106 Peugeot van (pride of the fleet)
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
cheshire911
Estoril


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3828



PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you go for PCP, go for the lowest level of deposit the vendor permits.

The equity at the end of the contract period is driven more by the Min Guaranteed Future Value (MGFV) which will also be the balloon payment to buy the car outright. You are financing the depreciation between purchase price and MGFV less deposit + interest.

Think carefully if putting the car through a VAT registered business as the tax treatment of a company car is complex and attracts taxman's interest if you are a small business. If in doubt speak to an accountant who can also advise you impartially on purchase options and their pros and cons.
_________________
996 2002 X50 Turbo Manual
"Once bitten; forever smitten"
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
AA3751
Newbie


Joined: 17 Jul 2016
Posts: 19



PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:32 pm    Post subject: Pcp vs HP Reply with quote

Car through your own business is Benefit in Kind suicide. Only works well when the Co2 values are low enough so something like a 918 spyder would work well.....

Question for you guys on PCP. If you decide to sell the car say after 18 months, how do you work out what the balance is left on the car? Or do Porsche finance give you a figure on request? If the car was let's say £100k and you pay £1k a month, after 18 months you have paid £18k. I assume the balance left to pay would be no where near £82k as a huge amount of that £1k would be interest? This is where I think HP wins for me as you pay more off towards owning the car and when selling have paid a lot less interest and that balance figure would be closer to £82k than a PCP!
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
cheshire911
Estoril


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3828



PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a corporate life I was on the 'senior director and managers car scheme' which was a PCP. The deposit paid by the company, a contribution into salary and a car in my name paid by direct debit out of my salary. I could and did have a greater costing more than the contribution to salary from employer.

In the event of early termination, the liability was on the company to pay up the remaining monthly contributions from termination date to end of contract term.if you take out a PCP without a company backing, I'd guess its the same but you'd have to pay the remainder of monthly payments to end of term.

With a company scheme underwriting the PCP they met any excess mileage payments over the contracted mileage and the early termination clause wad a liability of the company in case they had to cancel due to resignation, dismissal or redundancy of the employee.

Charging a car through the company for a small business needs to be considered very carefully if its difficult to prove you need a car for business.
_________________
996 2002 X50 Turbo Manual
"Once bitten; forever smitten"
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
jazzy2000
Trainee


Joined: 10 Nov 2015
Posts: 62



PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just met with the stealer and been quoted for a £106k pana for down £25k with £1.2k per month for 4 years on pcp. After that, i would just hand the car back if i cannot pay the 47k balloon. That works out £82.6k for 4 years if i hand the car back. Based on 5k miles allowance a year, that is £4.13/mile before i servicing and fuel Surprised Surprised
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
cheshire911
Estoril


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3828



PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And how about depreciation after capital and interest repayment?

You are spending £83k ti hand the car back and have no asset at the end of the term.

Compare if you took out finance what you'd pay and estimate the value of the asset at the of the term because you would own the car at that point and that has a value that you can trade against for another asset.
_________________
996 2002 X50 Turbo Manual
"Once bitten; forever smitten"
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
ragpicker
Reims


Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Posts: 4009
Location: North East England


PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jazzy2000 wrote:
Just met with the stealer and been quoted for a £106k pana for down £25k with £1.2k per month for 4 years on pcp. After that, i would just hand the car back if i cannot pay the 47k balloon. That works out £82.6k for 4 years if i hand the car back. Based on 5k miles allowance a year, that is £4.13/mile before i servicing and fuel Surprised Surprised


And this is precisely why I have never financed a car, and equally why I'll never own a GT3 now!

I just cannot stand the fact that I would be throwing money away on something I will never really own, or even that something depreciates so quickly because of the way the market is set up. There is no way a car is worth £10k less the moment it leaves the forecourt, its just that we are forced into paying £10k more for it than its worth to fund the salesmen's bonuses.

A few months back I was looking at getting a low BIK car for the wife and financing it through my limited company as a way of actually getting money out of the company efficiently. In the end I binned the idea and bought her a Range Rover Sport for £15-20k (an awful lot of car for the money - but thats another topic). Even if it depreciates, it won't be at a dizzying rate and at least we own it outright.
_________________
996 turbo - Available to buy if you're interested: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=131025&highlight=
986 S - usually in pieces: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=112626
955 Cayenne Turbo - a work in progress: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=131286&highlight=
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
cheshire911
Estoril


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3828



PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to double check those figures.
Car costs £106k

MGFV at end of term (48 months) = £47,000

Depreciation = £106,000 - £47,000 = £59,000

Less Deposit £25,000 = £34,000

PCP is financing the depreciation plus interest.

Lets say Interest is 6.5%

Depreciation + Interest = £34,000 x 1.065 = £36,210

Over 48 months = £754 per month

Excludes fuel, servicing, maintenance, VED, MOT.

Assumes 5k miles per annum (otherwise costs increase due to excess mileage penalty - usually applied by reducing the MGFV

IF I've not over-simplified it and if I've not overlooked something of significance, then those figures quoted do not make sense to me and I'd be back asking them to clarify and break them down much as I have done.

If there are any professionally qualified accountants on the forum, perhaps they can add their view and correct me on anything (I am NOT an accountant).

Maybe I've got it completely wrong? £1200 per month versus above £754.
Lifetime cost £86,400 versus £61,210?????
_________________
996 2002 X50 Turbo Manual
"Once bitten; forever smitten"
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
ragpicker
Reims


Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Posts: 4009
Location: North East England


PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still, £60k to drive something you'll never own?



_________________
996 turbo - Available to buy if you're interested: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=131025&highlight=
986 S - usually in pieces: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=112626
955 Cayenne Turbo - a work in progress: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=131286&highlight=
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
6appeal
Hockenheim


Joined: 02 Jan 2016
Posts: 637



PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just had a 6-series GC on BMW PCP... purchase price £55k, 3yrs residual at 60k miles £25k, £19k finance @ 0% at £530/m, £11k deposit. £30k Depreciation so total cost £10k per annum.

For the 911, £90k car, £15k deposit, £75k finance @ 6% £1,200/m 4yrs residual £35k so round figures are £55k depreciation + £15k interest. Depreciation/finance cost £17k per annum. (I've got a better deal a bit less than that, but it keeps the numbers round for example purposes)

The way i see it, car is £35k more to buy + £15k interest so £50k higher than the 6, but actual cost to me in my man-maths is that its costing me £7k a year (or £600/ month) for a 911 instead of a 6 series.

No-Brainer bargain as far as i'm concerned. Wink
_________________
Present:
- 992 Carrera S
- Yamaha MT01; CCM Cafe Racer
- VW T2 Bay Window 1976
Past:
- 991.2 Carrera, 640d GC, 635d, RS6, Audi TT 225, Astra with wind up windows, Citroen ZX, Rover 213, yes behold, a Rover 213... Renault 5
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
jazzy2000
Trainee


Joined: 10 Nov 2015
Posts: 62



PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire911 wrote:
You need to double check those figures.
Car costs £106k

MGFV at end of term (48 months) = £47,000

Depreciation = £106,000 - £47,000 = £59,000

Less Deposit £25,000 = £34,000

PCP is financing the depreciation plus interest.

Lets say Interest is 6.5%

Depreciation + Interest = £34,000 x 1.065 = £36,210

Over 48 months = £754 per month

Excludes fuel, servicing, maintenance, VED, MOT.

Assumes 5k miles per annum (otherwise costs increase due to excess mileage penalty - usually applied by reducing the MGFV

IF I've not over-simplified it and if I've not overlooked something of significance, then those figures quoted do not make sense to me and I'd be back asking them to clarify and break them down much as I have done.

If there are any professionally qualified accountants on the forum, perhaps they can add their view and correct me on anything (I am NOT an accountant).

Maybe I've got it completely wrong? £1200 per month versus above £754.
Lifetime cost £86,400 versus £61,210?????


Stealer actually quoted me 9.5% interest in his calculations. Naturally I made a swift exit...
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2937


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just bought a Golf on PCP.

Negotiated a discount on the ticket price then looked at finance with the dealer.

Took all the dealer incentives to take PCP (sizeable discount dressed up as "deposit contribution" and 2x free services).

Called up VW FS the next day and paid it off in full under the 14 day withdrawal period. Keep the incentives.

Screw paying 10.9% APR on a PCP deal!

I had the cash but could have financed it somewhere else (bank loan, 0% card balance transfer) much cheaper than that.

So I would look at borrowing elsewhere - mortgages are very cheap money at the moment - just remortgage take the PCP incentives and pay it off.
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
wilpert
Albert Park


Joined: 06 Jun 2010
Posts: 1665
Location: London

2016 Porsche Boxster 987

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've gotta fess up.

I was going to take Pcp route on my new boxster s.
I haggled the 12 percent discount gave my car as px, still needed 30k to make shortfall, so I scrabbled for 10 k outta funds here and there I still needed 20k so i remortgaged one of my buy to let's at 4 % interest and put the tenants rent up.
Even with depreciation and a bigger mortgage at least I'll feel like I own it and have something to trade up in a few years.
I'd hate to feel I would be giving the car back in 3 years.

Feel a bit guilty but I do like the car Dont know
_________________
It's only for life.
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
MNC911
Österreich


Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 989
Location: Prestbury


PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Option C, buy a £5k car now, put the payments into an account every month, then in the few years buy it out right without giving a single penny to any finance company or lender. By which time the car you want now will hopefully be a lot less. You'll be a winner in every way Thumb
_________________
History:
'10 911 Cab
'13 Cayman
'02 Boxster
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   All times are GMT - 12 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum