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k11pol
Monza


Joined: 18 Feb 2010
Posts: 219
Location: Aberdeen


PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:07 pm    Post subject: 3 scares in one day Reply with quote

I took my gts out today for the first time in the rain and was really disappointed in how badly she handled. She spun out 3 times and once in the dual carriageway in a straight line she just lost it, I thought that was it as it floated from lane to lane before straightening up.

Should it be like this ? It’s got Pirelli’s on just now with about 4mm tread approx all round , would putting a set of Michelin 4s all round make a difference ?

It’s going down to Glasgow to get PPF in a few weeks but I think I need to do something about the handling first as a few stone chips will be the least of my worries.
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 16128
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When did you last check your tyre pressures?
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Cunno
Indianapolis


Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Posts: 2337
Location: Nottinghamshire


PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sound like you hit standing water on the dual carriageway? Wide tyres and standing water never ends well, you need to adjust your driving style in bad condition in a 911 big rubber not a lot of weight pushing them down.
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FZP
Paul Ricard


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 3400
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's the first time in the rain ever? When you say it spun out, do you mean that you lost control of the car, or do you mean that the wheels spun up but still kept the car in a straight line.
Is it a 4GTS or GTS. The long and the short of it is that you should still be able to drive it as you would any car in the same conditions.id start with the tyres first and foremost. As Alex states, pressures are an easy check.
Keep in mind the temperatures are below summer tyre temp cut off of 7°C, I'd probably go a little more gently on the right foot you uncover the root cause of your woes.
Although Michelin are a tremendous tyre, I think you've got some homework ahead of you before you need to look at changing tyres
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pzero
General
General


Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 5311
Location: London


PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cunno wrote:
Sound like you hit standing water on the dual carriageway? Wide tyres and standing water never ends well, you need to adjust your driving style in bad condition in a 911 big rubber not a lot of weight pushing them down.


Agree and what was the local temperature?
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k11pol
Monza


Joined: 18 Feb 2010
Posts: 219
Location: Aberdeen


PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The road was wet but not standing water as I’m aware to slow down when I can see water in front of me, I’ve had a 911 for the past 10 years so understand how they drive.

FZP - Yes as post states first time in rain , I bought it in October but not had it out much due to work. Maybe spun out is wrong term it pointed left n slid then right and slid back to left then straightened up. It’s a Gts 2 wheel drive. The tyre pressures are as they should be so as you suggest I think I need to look into it a bit more in depth. It reminded me of a 3 series bmw I owned about 12 years ago, something’s not right.
 
  
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DucatiRob
Albert Park


Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 1747
Location: Milton Keynes

2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like there is something wrong somewhere! Tyre pressures would be the obvious thing, but if they are ok have a really good look at all the condition of all tyres all round! Shouldn't behave like that! I have Michelin PSS that are very good in the wet, not as good as the Potenzas I had before, but when they slide there is plenty feedback and easy to control!
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 16128
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I take it you're not relying on what the car says the pressures are. That is only there as a guide.

Could easily have been some diesel on the road or something. Dont know
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Cameo
Silverstone


Joined: 27 Dec 2015
Posts: 121
Location: South Coast


PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never had any problems in the cold & wet with my 2wd GTS running on Pzeros. Mind you I’m at the opposite end of there UK to you so it doesn’t get as cold. I suspect that might be the problem but check tyre pressures, mine tends to be quite sensitive to minor pressure fluctuations.

Have you got a NA or the new turbo-charged GTS? If the turbo perhaps the extra torque is causing the issue?
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Cunno
Indianapolis


Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Posts: 2337
Location: Nottinghamshire


PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

k11pol wrote:
The road was wet but not standing water as I’m aware to slow down when I can see water in front of me, I’ve had a 911 for the past 10 years so understand how they drive.

FZP - Yes as post states first time in rain , I bought it in October but not had it out much due to work. Maybe spun out is wrong term it pointed left n slid then right and slid back to left then straightened up. It’s a Gts 2 wheel drive. The tyre pressures are as they should be so as you suggest I think I need to look into it a bit more in depth. It reminded me of a 3 series bmw I owned about 12 years ago, something’s not right.


Good to know, For reference Michelin 4s are a great tyre in the wet and dry, the best all rounder I've used recently.
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k11pol
Monza


Joined: 18 Feb 2010
Posts: 219
Location: Aberdeen


PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex - maybe that’s the problem as I am going by the electronic tyre pressure reading.

Cameo - NA ,All the way,lol

Cunno - I’ve been planning on 4s anyway as had Michelin PS for over a decade on my 911 but thought I would get a few more miles out of the p zeros before changing.
 
  
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Cameo
Silverstone


Joined: 27 Dec 2015
Posts: 121
Location: South Coast


PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

k11pol wrote:

Cameo - NA ,All the way,lol


Good choice Very Happy

I was concerned about two wheel drive and rear engine before I got mine (my first 911) but I’ve been really impressed with traction and handling in all conditions. I hope you get to the bottom of the problem. Thumb
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6632
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Porsche state the tyres are worn out at 3mm , in Germany i belive that 3mm is the legal limit .

You seems to be close to this .

Tread depth and tyre pressures will effect handleing .

All i can say as a biker .. i Adjust my way of riding in adverse conditions be that rain or snow as i dont slide .. i fall off .
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Magic919
Suzuka


Joined: 05 Jun 2013
Posts: 1139
Location: Berkshire


PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Minimum tread depth in Germany is 1.6mm like the rest of Europe.
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Rojdog
Silverstone


Joined: 08 Nov 2018
Posts: 103
Location: Essex


PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

one more thing to consider how old are the tyres? there should be a code on the sidewall.

another Porsche rule is 6 years old and they are worn out no matter tread depth...
 
  
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6632
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive investigated this further rather than relying on what i have been told .. this seems to answer the question ..

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Should-we-change-tyres-at-3mm.htm
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Luddite
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 280
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

De Mort... as a biker you have the advantage of smelling the diesel spill before you see it, and of course you will know every pot hole and area of banding, where to avoid white lines and perhaps even tram lines on every road you regularly travel.... Yup perhaps the best lesson for a Porsche driver may be to spend some time on two wheels first...?

K11pol, before I would scrap a set of tyres, date code as mentioned and pressures as suggested, I would take a bit of time to straighten the steering and eyeball the four sidewalls alignment front to back and compare them on both sides of the car, might even grab the top of the wheel and shake the whole car if you are strong enough, perhaps bounce each of the four corners to give a rough check the shockers, or just drive down one of Aberdeen`s cobbled roads, if there are any left, while listening for anything loose... Whatever... hope you get it resolved easily.

Being an old guy I rotate the tyres on my old sports car with it`s even more ancient suspension design and back on the road I feel a difference immediately in that it does not track as it did before the change, taking some time to either I or the car settle into the "new" set up.. Question
 
  
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 7038
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is yours a .1 or .2? I’ve heard of another guy, serial 911 owner who was caught out by his surprisingly turbocharged feeling .2 C2S, and spun it, which he’d never done before. Said it feels a lot snappier.
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Johnd52
Montreal


Joined: 06 Oct 2014
Posts: 553
Location: North Yorkshire

2011 Porsche Cayman 987

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given all the factors above, I suggest that 4mm tread depth is just not enough to do anything but take extreme care in wet and cold conditions. With similarly worn tyres at the end of last summer, I was limited to about 60 mph on a streaming wet motorway. Above that it was virtually undriveable. A new set of boots transformed the car on wet roads.
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k11pol
Monza


Joined: 18 Feb 2010
Posts: 219
Location: Aberdeen


PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An interesting link by De mort on tyre/tread depths.

It’s an N/A so .1 and with it being a GTS the tyres are all less than 6 years old. The date code is something I got caught out with many years ago when I thought I was getting a good deal on a pair of pilot sports so aware of that.
 
  
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